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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 19, 2013 12:55:46 GMT -5
I'd be ok with 4 years for McCann, assuming he checks out medically. He can split with Ross/Butler/CVaz next year and CVaz the year after. Whenever Swihart is ready (assuming he's ever ready to catch in Boston), McCann could possibly switch th 1B/DH/3rd catcher with Swihart/CVaz taking the main roles behind the plate. But that 3+years out - an ternity in prospectdom.
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Jul 19, 2013 13:01:31 GMT -5
We managed to build the team from last year with only non-tendered free agents and I don't see the reason to go and get McCann who would have to go through the rigors of switching markets when you have a known commodity in Salty that wouldn't cost a pick and there are no question marks about the ability to play in the market. It only takes one team that is desperate to win to drive the price up on McCann so I don't think that getting involved in a 'Sweepstakes' is going to help you especially if you let Salty walk and have a backup plan of Lavarnway? Piezynski? Ruiz? To summarize get Salty on a QO.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 19, 2013 13:02:01 GMT -5
I think Salty will be back in 2014. My guess is that he'll sign a 3 year deal with the Sox for around $35 million - $40 million and I say this expecting that he'll tank again in the second half, especially if Farrell doesn't rest him enough.
I've heard Salty say that he wants to stay with the Sox (that's what they all say - right?), but I kind of believe him. He doesn't strike me as a guy who's looking to leave. I don't think the Sox are convinced that Lavarnway is the answer and I don't know that they'd want to get into a bidding war on McCann.
I think the Sox value his game calling (despite what the stats say), like the LH pop in his bat, and probably think he can bridge the time until Swihart and Vazquez are ready (Vazquez obviously would most likely be ready first).
I think Ross is signed for another year? I'm not sure he'll be around for it. If he isn't then Salty and Lavarnway are your catching tandem in 2014, with Vazquez not too far behind.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 19, 2013 13:44:34 GMT -5
We managed to build the team from last year with only non-tendered free agents and I don't see the reason to go and get McCann who would have to go through the rigors of switching markets when you have a known commodity in Salty that wouldn't cost a pick and there are no question marks about the ability to play in the market. It only takes one team that is desperate to win to drive the price up on McCann so I don't think that getting involved in a 'Sweepstakes' is going to help you especially if you let Salty walk and have a backup plan of Lavarnway? Piezynski? Ruiz? To summarize get Salty on a QO. They would only go after McCann if they can get a pick for Salty. Wouldn't drop too much.
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Post by colombianrsox on Aug 6, 2013 1:48:42 GMT -5
A dilemma is coming for RS Management. Salty has been expensive to develop resultwise and now it seems like he has finally matured both defensively and offensively. Is it worth not to extend him and leave Lavarnway there? How much of an effect is having Tek there.. Or Ross? Or even Farrell in this year's change in Salty? I would definitely try for an extension. A good catcher is difficult to develop. I would say there is too much at stake.. Your opinions?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2013 18:26:42 GMT -5
I don't think the Sox need McCann. Before this year, his OPS had been declining for 5 consecutive years. I wouldn't sign a fat, aging catcher who happens to be having his best year since 2008. He would also require a huge contract. I think that Lavarnway can figure it out offensively if he can just get some regular playing time. I would go into next year with him and maybe another backup option in addition to Ross, such as Dioneer Navarro. Christian Vazaquez will be ready soon. Although he may not be much more than a .270 hitter, he can call a game and can throw out runners like crazy. I don't think the Sox need McCann or Salty. I could be wrong, but I really think Lavarnway will figure it out..
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Post by curiousle on Aug 6, 2013 19:41:55 GMT -5
I still think Dan Butler can work his way into this mix as a backup catcher for the sox next year. Lavarnway has had his chance and I don't think it works-but a Butler/Salty duo gives them some holding power until Vazquez proves he can take on the job. Comments would say that Butler has strong leadership skills-and when left to the main role-he can produce.....maybe he's 2014's Dan Nava.....
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Post by jmei on Aug 6, 2013 20:23:13 GMT -5
I don't think the Sox need McCann. Before this year, his OPS had been declining for 5 consecutive years. I wouldn't sign a fat, aging catcher who happens to be having his best year since 2008. He would also require a huge contract. I think that Lavarnway can figure it out offensively if he can just get some regular playing time. I would go into next year with him and maybe another backup option in addition to Ross, such as Dioneer Navarro. Christian Vazaquez will be ready soon. Although he may not be much more than a .270 hitter, he can call a game and can throw out runners like crazy. I don't think the Sox need McCann or Salty. I could be wrong, but I really think Lavarnway will figure it out.. Lavarnway hasn't hit at any level in two years and is mediocre at best defensively. McCann is an elite two-way catcher who would be ideal other than his expected cost. Dioner Navarro has been good this year in limited PAs but has been terrible the four years before that. Vazquez will never hit .270 in the major leagues (which, by the way, would be excellent for a catcher) but his strong on-base ability gives him a chance to stick as a starting catcher. PS: Other than Vazquez, I disagree with literally all of your thoughts. Kudos for that.
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Aug 6, 2013 20:55:54 GMT -5
From all I've read McCann is a bad defensive catcher. Saying he's an elite 2-way player is stretching the truth.
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Post by bluechip on Aug 6, 2013 21:03:03 GMT -5
From all I've read McCann is a bad defensive catcher. Saying he's an elite 2-way player is stretching the truth. He is elite at pitch framing, lousy at preventing steals. Similar to Salty...
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 6, 2013 21:11:24 GMT -5
I love how Salty is suddenly elite at pitch framing. I could have sworn he sucked at it a minute ago.
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Post by bluechip on Aug 6, 2013 21:18:37 GMT -5
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Post by taftreign on Aug 6, 2013 23:15:21 GMT -5
Brian McCann does have to be considered an option this offseason. However losing a 1st rounder for McCann does give me pause. I would only give up a pick if the player signed can not only improve the team but significantly improve the team.
The other issue I'd have is if he wants 5 years. I believe after next year with Vazquez getting AAA time and Swihart AA time we will have a pretty solid idea of how much they have to offer. Vazquez should be at least a backup in 2015 with his solid defense and Swihart a year to a year and a half behind that.
I'm fine with Salty as the starter and Ross as the backup next year. Package Lavarnway with another prospect or two in the off season to add another piece. Maybe clear a 40 man spot or two in the process. Use Butler as the 3rd.
The other option to sign McCann is contingent. I'd rather not lose the 1st rounder unless the team gets one back in addition to the Ellsbury pick. Get him signed on a 4 year or less deal. Dependent on when Ortiz chooses to retire plan on two solid catching years from McCann as a starter. After that McCann can split time at catcher with Vazquez and play other games as the DH. This scenario can work.
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Post by bluechip on Aug 6, 2013 23:35:13 GMT -5
With McCann you really cannot count on him being a full time catcher for the length of the contract, so I would be hesitant to pay him like he is one of the three or four best catchers.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Aug 6, 2013 23:56:54 GMT -5
I still think Dan Butler can work his way into this mix as a backup catcher for the sox next year. Lavarnway has had his chance and I don't think it works-but a Butler/Salty duo gives them some holding power until Vazquez proves he can take on the job. Comments would say that Butler has strong leadership skills-and when left to the main role-he can produce.....maybe he's 2014's Dan Nava..... Funny thing? Lavarnway has shown he hits as well as Salty, throws at least as good (better accuracy) and people that say he can't block balls are the ones who go by what he couldn't do several years back. Not saying he's the ideal candidate to be a F/T catcher at all, because he flat out isn't, but he's a better candidate to be a reserve catcher than Ross, or Butler. His offensive numbers are at least on par as Salty's also. Catcher is something Boston should think long and hard about not wasting tons of cash on next year and going with a Lava/Ross and if ross isn't over his concussion issues? Releasing him and going with Butler, even Vazquez later on in the season and defense 1st with little offense from catcher, just like they are getting now and saving cash for later on at next years deadline rather than wasting money by giving Salty a QO. The team this season is playing with a massive hole at both SS and catcher for offense, next year SS should be covered with Bogaerts. The team should next year just enter the season just seeing offensive holes at 3b/C. Leave it that way, unless they make off se4ason deals so they have free cash to maneuver around with. remember Ell's 10m and Drew's 10m has already been partially taken up by adding Peavy's 14m for 2014. In the liklihood Salty see's that the superior Russel Marin only got 2/17m last year as a FA and accepts the 13.5mQO, Boston does not need to get stuck paying him 2x what he is worth for an inferior to Martin player on both sides of the field.
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Aug 7, 2013 0:06:31 GMT -5
A QO is perfect for Salty because if he accepts (probable) - great, we have him for one more year and we can figure out our catching tandem for 2015 later - and if he declines - great, we can get a pick and go for McCann to be our starting catcher for the next two years and then our DH for the last two (assuming a 4-year deal) and let Swihart and Vasquez be the catching tandem of the future.
EDIT: I don't care if we overpay by a few million for Salty if we get an opportunity to get first-rounder.
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Aug 7, 2013 0:52:26 GMT -5
Just saying, Ross really isn't an upgrade over Butler or Vasquez. He's more experienced and a good guy, but at this point in his career, he's really not better than ether of those two.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Aug 7, 2013 7:39:31 GMT -5
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Post by semperfisox on Aug 7, 2013 9:49:00 GMT -5
I really like Vasquez, love what he can do defensively and he's hitting.
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Post by jmei on Aug 7, 2013 10:34:24 GMT -5
Funny thing? Lavarnway has shown he hits as well as Salty, throws at least as good (better accuracy) and people that say he can't block balls are the ones who go by what he couldn't do several years back. Not saying he's the ideal candidate to be a F/T catcher at all, because he flat out isn't, but he's a better candidate to be a reserve catcher than Ross, or Butler. His offensive numbers are at least on par as Salty's also. Catcher is something Boston should think long and hard about not wasting tons of cash on next year and going with a Lava/Ross and if ross isn't over his concussion issues? Releasing him and going with Butler, even Vazquez later on in the season and defense 1st with little offense from catcher, just like they are getting now and saving cash for later on at next years deadline rather than wasting money by giving Salty a QO. The team this season is playing with a massive hole at both SS and catcher for offense, next year SS should be covered with Bogaerts. The team should next year just enter the season just seeing offensive holes at 3b/C. Leave it that way, unless they make off se4ason deals so they have free cash to maneuver around with. remember Ell's 10m and Drew's 10m has already been partially taken up by adding Peavy's 14m for 2014. In the liklihood Salty see's that the superior Russel Marin only got 2/17m last year as a FA and accepts the 13.5mQO, Boston does not need to get stuck paying him 2x what he is worth for an inferior to Martin player on both sides of the field. Lavarnway has always had a decent arm, but he is a terrible pitch framer (stabs at pitches, doesn't position or move well behind the plate) who struggles at blocking pitches and lacks mobility (for pop-ups, bunts, etc). He has hit far worse than Saltalamacchia in the last two years in the major leagues (albeit in a tiny sample size) with little power and terrible K and BB rates, and there is no projection system which has him on par with Saltalmacchia going forward. Saltalamacchia, by the way, is pretty good offensively for a catcher. Among catchers with 300 PAs, his 109 wRC+ ranks 8th and is well above-average for the position as a whole. He strikes out a lot but makes up for it with a lot of power, improving patience, and a lot of line drives. You are vastly underestimating him as a player, and calling him a "massive hole on offensive" is pretty clearly factually incorrect (calling Drew a "massive hole on offensive" is pretty misinformed as well, by the way).
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Post by jmei on Aug 7, 2013 11:03:45 GMT -5
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Post by ramireja on Aug 7, 2013 11:09:28 GMT -5
I agree....and like other posters I kind of like the idea of offering Salty a QO. If he accepts, we overpay for a single year of Salty but we buy Vasquez one more year of development before we give him the job. If he declines and signs elsewhere, we basically steal a draft pick (I don't really think Salty is a QO level player) and perhaps have to live with a year of Lavarnway and Ross, although Vasquez could be ready at some point next year.
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Post by semperfisox on Aug 8, 2013 9:54:11 GMT -5
Vasquez is on the fast track to be here in 2015
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Post by terriblehondo on Aug 23, 2013 5:23:27 GMT -5
I have a question on Vasquez from someone who has seen him play a lot. What is the deal with 19 passed balls? Does he not block balls in the dirt? The video's that I have seen on him I love his pop and throw but for me a defensive catcher has to do it all. Call a good game, frame, block and throw. I assumed from what I had read he had this covered. 19 passed balls does not say that to me. Is he trying to frame it and missing? Does he get lazy and not move his feet?
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Post by ramireja on Aug 23, 2013 6:58:37 GMT -5
I have a question on Vasquez from someone who has seen him play a lot. What is the deal with 19 passed balls? Does he not block balls in the dirt? The video's that I have seen on him I love his pop and throw but for me a defensive catcher has to do it all. Call a good game, frame, block and throw. I assumed from what I had read he had this covered. 19 passed balls does not say that to me. Is he trying to frame it and missing? Does he get lazy and not move his feet? There may be some blocking problems, but I'm hoping a number of those passed balls are from games pitched by Haeger....
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