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Post by jdb on Dec 21, 2012 18:15:56 GMT -5
K Law from his chat. Seems like more and more people think Xander can stick at SS. Law thought it could happen before but he's increased the odds. espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/46518/mlb-insider-keith-lawTravis (Boston) Will Xander Bogaerts be a SS long-term? Red Sox seem to have doubled down on him being a shortstop Klaw (3:15 PM) I think it's 50/50 or so. He improved a lot there this year.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Dec 21, 2012 18:30:30 GMT -5
K Law from his chat. Seems like more and more people think Xander can stick at SS. Law thought it could happen before but he's increased the odds. espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/46518/mlb-insider-keith-lawTravis (Boston) Will Xander Bogaerts be a SS long-term? Red Sox seem to have doubled down on him being a shortstop Klaw (3:15 PM) I think it's 50/50 or so. He improved a lot there this year. I think the key phrase here is "long term". If Klaw thinks he has a 50/50 chance of sticking long term, he must think he's likely to at least arrive as a shortstop and spend some time there before either outgrowing the position or proving he isn't an adequate defender. Sticking long term is a lot different than arriving as a 21-22 year old before an inevitable move.
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Post by Guidas on Jan 3, 2013 16:00:59 GMT -5
I know there are those here who dislike Keith Law's evaluations, but for all the Xander fans, he did say this in his chat today (FWIW):
Tom (LA): Is Will Middlebrooks or Xander Bogaerts the better long-term option at 3B as opposed to the outfield, defensively?
Klaw (1:04 PM): What if Bogaerts stays at short? That's not as unlikely today as it looked a year ago.
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Post by curll on Jan 3, 2013 16:04:03 GMT -5
Can we just concede that Xander will be at SS until he can't play the position in the majors? The entire conversation thread is dull, hackneyed, and useless.
Derek bleepin' Jeter won GGs at SS. Xander isn't moving anytime soon.
jmei edit: profanity
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Post by sibbysisti on Jan 3, 2013 16:48:06 GMT -5
Feel free to ignore any dull threads that don't grab your interests.
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Post by burythehammer on Jan 5, 2013 12:53:00 GMT -5
Do you know for a fact that he's even as good as the terrible Derek Jeter?
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Post by Chris Mellen on Jan 5, 2013 13:28:05 GMT -5
I'm actually on the absolute opposite end of the spectrum on Xander Bogaerts' at shortstop. After scouting his defense all season, especially some long, extended looks after he got to Portland, I think it is less likely today that he sticks than last year.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jan 7, 2013 15:12:52 GMT -5
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Post by sarasoxer on Jan 7, 2013 21:19:02 GMT -5
Very nice, insightful article! Thank you for finding and reporting it. Just seeing Bogaerts a few (maybe 6 times) in Portland, I did not think that he looked like a 'natural' shortstop...almost the opposite of Iglesias and below Ramirez. ]He did not appear to be particularly agile, fluid or instinctive nor did he appear to have great quickness/arm/range. If asked, I would have said that last year he was a bit below average as a fielder at that position and at that (age-advanced) level. Perhaps robotic is the best term that comes to mind. But,if true, let us not forget, that he is only 20.At the plate tho, he was confident, aggressive and productive. He looked like a stud hitter in the making. If asked, I think that he will morph into an outstanding 1B or, more likely, a good outfielder...and, of course, he has time for each. If he stays at SS, he might be adequate based on the limited action I saw.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Jan 7, 2013 22:06:08 GMT -5
When Jed Lowrie was coming through the Sox system he was a very favorite of mine. My own personal assessment was that his floor was an exceptional utility man, his ceiling a chance at being an all-star SS by being very valuable offensively while being at least adequate defensively.
Xander has the potential at this point of putting Jed's offensive capabilities in the shade. Don't know if it will happen, but the potential is certainly there. Given that, I have a few questions.
(1) How would people compare Xander's capabilities at SS versus Jed's? (tough to make a fair comp, I know.) When Jed was coming up there was considerable debate about exactly how worthy he was defensively at SS.
(2) Was it legitimate of me to think that of Jed before the fact, notwithstanding the physical setbacks he ended up enduring?
(3) The real question for me is, does Xander have at least as good a chance as Jed, or much better, of being a top-flight SS, with "top flight" being weighted rather heavily toward the offensive side, as it would have been with Jed? It seems to me he does, but am I missing something?
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Post by Chris Mellen on Jan 7, 2013 23:40:15 GMT -5
I always saw Jed Lowrie as a player who would be capable of playing shortstop in stretches, but best suited as a third baseman or second baseman if slotted properly on a team. In an ideal scenario, the type of player who could cover multiple positions and have enough plate appearances carved out to chip in enough with the bat to have the value. Its been tough since he's now 28 and hasn't played more than 100 games in a MLB season due to injuries. The body hasn't been able to stay healthy for whatever reason.
Lowrie and Xander Bogaerts are simliar defensively in that they aren't overly natural at the position and fringe-average-to-average with their feet, but Lowrie was more fundamentally sound and threw better on the run. Bogaerts has more arm when he is able to plant than Lowrie had/has. I'd take Lowrie straight up defensively, but he was a bit more polished within the game due to overall experience.
A very large portion of the prospect draw for Bogaerts is on the bat. If you took his bat down to the projection level of say Deven Marrero with Bogaerts' projected defensive profile, I wouldn't see him as close to a Top 100 guy and would probably have him ranked behind Vinicio in the system. We probably wouldn't be talking about Bogaerts as a regular in that example.
The bat is special and is on that kind of level for me. I'm most interested in scouting how the secondary offensive skills are coming along in the extended test against advanced competition. If he ends up playing a year in the bigs at shortstop, great. If it is third base, great. If it is outfield, great. As long as the bat keeps ramping and maturing, it'll be one pencil in the middle of a lineup at its peak at whatever position.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jan 8, 2013 12:49:49 GMT -5
On the positive side, from my limited exposure to Xander, I thought he had very good hands, able to snatch the ball and get it to a good throwing position, and a good arm. This is why I've always thought that he'd make a good third baseman if forced to move off SS ... my impression of him at A-ball was that he lacked the top-end fluid athleticism in his hips and lower half to make it as a shortstop in the major leagues as he gets even bigger, but his bat is so advanced, he may make it to Boston before he gets forced off the position. In just a relative handful of looks, tho, it's hard for me to separate the impression of the athleticism of his lower half with his footwork, so ymmv. But that seems to jibe with what Mellen and others saw, so there's that.
You know, one thing about Lowrie, he just didn't really look like he had the frame and overall athletic ability to even do what he did, let alone get better. I sometimes wonder if whatever it is that allows him to generate more pop than he looks like he should also causes his body to just exceed its limits sometimes and start to break down. He's kind of an odd case. I was a fan of his coming up, but seems pretty clear he's one of the few guys who really does deserve the "injury prone" label ...
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Post by jioh on Jan 8, 2013 13:19:28 GMT -5
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Post by nysoxfan on Jan 20, 2013 10:55:59 GMT -5
Maybe this is misplaced by not being on the WBC thread, but does anyone else have a general concern about Xander playing in the Classic? I assume a position player is less impacted by the relatively short buildup period in the spring prior to the start of tournament play, but still, I'd feel better with him going through the full program in spring training with the Sox staff managing the process. No?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 20, 2013 11:21:31 GMT -5
Maybe this is misplaced by not being on the WBC thread, but does anyone else have a general concern about Xander playing in the Classic? I assume a position player is less impacted by the relatively short buildup period in the spring prior to the start of tournament play, but still, I'd feel better with him going through the full program in spring training with the Sox staff managing the process. No? I mean, if it's even an issue, it's not like he can't just show up to camp a couple weeks early. And it's not really an issue.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 20, 2013 11:27:42 GMT -5
Maybe this is misplaced by not being on the WBC thread, but does anyone else have a general concern about Xander playing in the Classic? I assume a position player is less impacted by the relatively short buildup period in the spring prior to the start of tournament play, but still, I'd feel better with him going through the full program in spring training with the Sox staff managing the process. No? As a proud resident of Aruba, I can't imagine the Sox would deny him the privilege of playing for the kingdom. Besides, Blyleven could probably still plunk Cherrington in the square of the back with a curveball from wherever he is right now. Seriously, the team would come across very badly, in his eyes as well as those of the baseball world, if they told him he couldn't play. And you'd be denied the pleasure of watching him play alongside Profar. The WBC games may be the only time we get to see that. Coming to you from the great northwest
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 11:50:16 GMT -5
if xander can stay at ss, and if we are set on slating him as the starter in 2014, wouldn't it be better to call him up in late april or may to delay his service time and have him under team control for one more year in his prime?
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Post by bluechip on Jan 20, 2013 12:37:13 GMT -5
Maybe this is misplaced by not being on the WBC thread, but does anyone else have a general concern about Xander playing in the Classic? I assume a position player is less impacted by the relatively short buildup period in the spring prior to the start of tournament play, but still, I'd feel better with him going through the full program in spring training with the Sox staff managing the process. No? I do not think it is really that big of a deal. Especially for a position player.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Jan 20, 2013 14:16:33 GMT -5
I agree with bluechip. If it were a pitcher or an older player with injury concerns then I would be worried, but not for a young position players. This could be a good opportunity for him to get some at bats against advanced pitching (at least against a few of the teams) and help his development in the long run.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jan 20, 2013 14:26:36 GMT -5
I'm glad Bogaerts is playing. Agree it will be good for his development. Plus I want to see him play on TV. I've only seen a few clips so far.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 20, 2013 17:07:32 GMT -5
I think it's a good opportunity to see how he'll look at third base without everybody freaking out about him moving off short. (For those unaware, given the presence of Jurickson Profar and Andrelton Simmons, there's no way Bogaerts is going to play short at all for Netherlands.)
It's also not like his season will be submarined if he needs to get a month in extended or something after the WBC before reporting to Portland.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jan 21, 2013 8:16:38 GMT -5
For those unaware, given the presence of Jurickson Profar and Andrelton Simmons, there's no way Bogaerts is going to play short at all for Netherlands. Forget when I pieced that together, but I've always found it hilarious that the Dutch are so stacked at SS.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jan 21, 2013 11:12:47 GMT -5
Not that I want it to happen but his team could get knocked out pretty early going on the road basically to face South Korea and Taiwan so he probably won't miss all that much from MiLB spring training.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 21, 2013 14:38:25 GMT -5
Not that I want it to happen but his team could get knocked out pretty early going on the road basically to face South Korea and Taiwan so he probably won't miss all that much from MiLB spring training. Certainly South Korea will offer a real challenge, but I'm not so sure about Taiwan. Their professional baseball league has languished over the last few years. Still, the pitching always seems to be there. Both 6' 4" Chien-Ming Wang, and to confuse the issue (a mini-me version of him perhaps?), the 5' 10" Ching-Ming Wang are listed. Looking at the roster, the young SS the Sox signed, Tzu-Wei Lin, isn't on it, but familiar names Chien-Ming Chang and Che-Hsuan Lin are. Should be lots of fun watching a few games.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2013 18:15:00 GMT -5
it would be nice if we could find out if xb can stick at ss. if he can, the BEST role that iglesias would have in boston is utility infielder, and utility infielders can come and go. if xb can't stick at ss, then iglesias still has a shot of starting in boston. it xb can definitely stay at ss, that may make iglesias expendable.
in that case, it would be best to watch how each player does this year. after this year, we could probably determine where xb can play in the future. we could probably also determine what iggy's role will be in boston in the future, or with only one option remaining and his lack of improvement at the plate, him becoming expendable.
the 2013 season will determine this, so it is best to hang on to BOTH of them
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