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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Jun 6, 2014 7:43:17 GMT -5
Peavy, Mujica, Herrera for Peterson and single a prospect.
Peavy has killed the dodgers and would be served in that stadium.
Dodgers saw the best of Herrera last year, and Mujica would have some value to them as well.
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Post by jmei on Jun 6, 2014 7:46:33 GMT -5
That single a prospect really makes or breaks the deal.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jun 6, 2014 7:49:28 GMT -5
Seems that the Dodger's already have 5 starters better than Peavy. Mujica has been terrible and Herrerra is a DFA candidate.
Although I am interested if we could match up for a Pederson trade in some way.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 6, 2014 12:47:47 GMT -5
Peavy, Mujica, Herrera for Peterson and single a prospect. Peavy has killed the dodgers and would be served in that stadium. Dodgers saw the best of Herrera last year, and Mujica would have some value to them as well. So basically you'd like to dump our worst players on the Dodgers in return for a highly regarded prospect. I'm sure they can't wait to jump on that deal.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 6, 2014 15:37:31 GMT -5
Peavy, Mujica, Herrera for Peterson and single a prospect. Peavy has killed the dodgers and would be served in that stadium. Dodgers saw the best of Herrera last year, and Mujica would have some value to them as well. So basically you'd like to dump our worst players on the Dodgers in return for a highly regarded prospect. I'm sure they can't wait to jump on that deal. It happened before?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 6, 2014 15:41:06 GMT -5
So basically you'd like to dump our worst players on the Dodgers in return for a highly regarded prospect. I'm sure they can't wait to jump on that deal. It happened before? Haha. No, the Dodgers took the most expensive players. Beckett is pitching quite well for them now and A-Gon was the motivation behind the deal. He's still hitting relatively well for the Dodgers. Crawford is a still and Punto is still highly fungible. That was actually the rare deal that worked well for both teams. Doesn't mean they're going to give us Clayton Kershaw for Clay Buchholz or give away Pederson for guys we'd love to get rid of. If they need a 3b, Cecchini, I would think, would be of some interest but it would take more than that, perhaps Vazquez (although I would imagine they'd want Swihart)
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 6, 2014 15:46:15 GMT -5
Haha. No, the Dodgers took the most expensive players. Beckett is pitching quite well for them now and A-Gon was the motivation behind the deal. He's still hitting relatively well for the Dodgers. Crawford is a still and Punto is still highly fungible. That was actually the rare deal that worked well for both teams. Doesn't mean they're going to give us Clayton Kershaw for Clay Buchholz or give away Pederson for guys we'd love to get rid of. If they need a 3b, Cecchini, I would think, would be of some interest but it would take more than that, perhaps Vazquez (although I would imagine they'd want Swihart) We probably have to throw in Pedroia to make it work.
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Post by rider on Jun 6, 2014 16:38:23 GMT -5
Would love to trade say Cecchini and a pitcher (Barnes, Ranaudo, Johnson type) for Joc
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 8, 2014 11:58:33 GMT -5
Does the team that gets Lackey get him for 2015 as well?
Also, Lester for Pederson + is one I think could work for both teams. LA is a team that could resign Lester with money coming off the books for them. They might even want to move on this sooner rather than later since they're about .500 right now and need to pick it up.
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Post by sibbysisti on Jun 8, 2014 23:13:20 GMT -5
In answer to your question, yes, the contract Lackey signed with the Sox is transferred to the club to which he's traded. That's what makes him a valuable commodity. You acquire him to help out during this pennant drive and get him for next season at the ML minimum.
I'd do Lester for Joc, too, if they can't come to agreement on an extension.
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Post by ctfisher on Jun 9, 2014 0:00:50 GMT -5
I think we probably would be able to find a better return for lester than pederson if they decide to shop him, especially since he's been throwing well most of the year. even so, i'd much rather have lester re-signed than traded. I don't know how easy he'd be to replace
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Post by jrffam05 on Jun 9, 2014 7:32:49 GMT -5
Best case scenario is we trade Lester and he still gives us a hometown discount in free agency.
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Post by jmei on Jun 9, 2014 7:46:20 GMT -5
Best case scenario is we trade Lester and he still gives us a hometown discount in free agency. What are the odds of this happening? "Oh, thanks for uprooting my life and forcing me to live in a hotel room away from my wife and kids for three months!" I can't think of any examples where a star player was traded mid-season and re-signed with their original team during that offseason.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jun 9, 2014 10:45:31 GMT -5
Best case scenario is we trade Lester and he still gives us a hometown discount in free agency. What are the odds of this happening? "Oh, thanks for uprooting my life and forcing me to live in a hotel room away from my wife and kids for three months!" I can't think of any examples where a star player was traded mid-season and re-signed with their original team during that offseason. Cole Hammels said before his extension that he would still consider resigning with the Philles if traded. Although, I really didn't mean for this to come off as a serious proposal.
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Post by trotsdirtyhat on Jun 9, 2014 12:04:58 GMT -5
The closest thing that I can think of is when Cliff Lee signed his megacontract with the Phillies after they traded him in a megadeal during the previous offseason. That's not meant to be any comparison to Lester's situation, as I am certain Lester would not return if traded. I remember being absolutely astounded that Cliff Lee signed with Philly 1.) because of the circumstances surrounding his departure, and 2.) because Philly was the "mystery team" in negotiations.
So, if anything, it demonstrates how rare it is that something like that happens.
With word that Lackey may rather retire than play for minimum (which is enough material for a thread of its own), I'm pushing harder to re-sign Lester than ever before. Although Joc Pederson in a Sox uniform would be really, really nice to see, I don't see it happening.
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Post by oleary25 on Jun 9, 2014 12:11:27 GMT -5
First off we're most likely not getting Joc Pederson. He's young cost controlled and the Dodgers are looking for a way to get him on their team currently by subtracting one of the costly veteran players. Secondly if we traded Lester we'd most likely never get him back. He's going to be a valued commodity on the open market no matter what but removing the draft compensation attached to him the bidding will go insane. Thus we'd be priced out of his market. Don't get me wrong I like Lester a lot and hold him in high regard however he isn't worth being paid like a top 5 or 10 pitcher.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jun 9, 2014 14:18:49 GMT -5
But let me ask, and I am going to allow myself to get off topic because it's the trade proposal forums, would it really be that farfetched for a player to resign with a team that just traded him? I'm going to continue to use "a player" and not Lester in this example, as I agree if he is traded he isn't coming back. I understand Jmei's point, that the player would feel dejected and inconvenienced that he has to move cities for three months, and also lose his chance to renegotiate a contract before free agency. But you are also doing the player a favor of sorts, as you are trading him from a non contending team to a contending team. There are plenty of players out there who want to be traded off of a losing team to a contending team. Now if a player was comfortable and loyal to his team, that team was out of contention this year but looks to be competitive next year, and that player would rather play for a winning team than a losing team would it be that big of a deal if he was traded? I am not saying that in this situation a player should come back to his original team, I am saying it is not inconceivable that there are players who wouldn't mind coming back, in Lester's circumstance.
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Post by jmei on Jun 9, 2014 14:39:37 GMT -5
But let me ask, and I am going to allow myself to get off topic because it's the trade proposal forums, would it really be that farfetched for a player to resign with a team that just traded him? I'm going to continue to use "a player" and not Lester in this example, as I agree if he is traded he isn't coming back. I understand Jmei's point, that the player would feel dejected and inconvenienced that he has to move cities for three months, and also lose his chance to renegotiate a contract before free agency. But you are also doing the player a favor of sorts, as you are trading him from a non contending team to a contending team. There are plenty of players out there who want to be traded off of a losing team to a contending team. Now if a player was comfortable and loyal to his team, that team was out of contention this year but looks to be competitive next year, and that player would rather play for a winning team than a losing team would it be that big of a deal if he was traded? I am not saying that in this situation a player should come back to his original team, I am saying it is not inconceivable that there are players who wouldn't mind coming back, in Lester's circumstance. Sure, it's certainly plausible that a player could be traded midseason and still want to return the next season. You could have a version of the Ray Bourque-type situation where the guy wants to get a title before he retires, but then he ends up wanting to spend one last season in his original city after he does win. The player could just have such strong ties to the city/region that they'd be willing to take a discount to come back, sort of like how Rich Hill keeps re-signing minor league deals with Boston even though he undoubtedly has a better shot of making the majors elsewhere (Hill's son's medical issues likely had something to do with it; Scott Atchison was in a similar situation with his daughter). Or, of course, the original team could just be the highest bidder in free agency that offseason, and cold hard cash makes up for a lot of perceived slights. But just because it's plausible doesn't mean that it's anything close to likely. This sort of situation would seem to require that the player at least acquiesces to the trade, because if he doesn't want to be traded, he's probably pretty pissed at the team and so wouldn't want to come back. But logically, a player would only consent to a trade if he doesn't want to play for his current team anymore. And if he doesn't want to play for his current team anymore at midseason, why would he have changed his mind by the end of the following offseason? Money or sentimentality are two plausible reasons, and they drive the above scenarios, but those types of situations are pretty rare, I think. Plus, as you alluded to, we're talking about a player in Lester who is on record as someone who is not a fan of change and who is poised to earn his big free agent contract this offseason. Even if this scenario was theoretically plausible, it certainly wouldn't apply to Lester.
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Post by ctfisher on Jun 30, 2014 13:19:34 GMT -5
How about Barnes/Ranaudo and doubront for pederson? He's a highly valued prospect, but that gives them a guy who could be a valuable lefty out of the pen with the ability to start, and a solid, near major-league ready starting pitcher as well, both cost controlled. It doesn't look like they're going to find a way to fit pederson into that outfield this year. Alternately, if we're in sell mode, I could see packaging koji and a pitching prospect to try to get him, and maybe include brock holt? Not sure if these would get the deal done, but I think the dodgers have to consider them, their pen has struggled pretty badly despite a lot of pricey arms, either of those guys should give them a boost, are relatively cheap, and with holt/ranaudo/barnes attached, there's some decent upside to the deal as well
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 30, 2014 23:31:06 GMT -5
How about Barnes/Ranaudo and doubront for pederson? He's a highly valued prospect, but that gives them a guy who could be a valuable lefty out of the pen with the ability to start, and a solid, near major-league ready starting pitcher as well, both cost controlled. It doesn't look like they're going to find a way to fit pederson into that outfield this year. Alternately, if we're in sell mode, I could see packaging koji and a pitching prospect to try to get him, and maybe include brock holt? Not sure if these would get the deal done, but I think the dodgers have to consider them, their pen has struggled pretty badly despite a lot of pricey arms, either of those guys should give them a boost, are relatively cheap, and with holt/ranaudo/barnes attached, there's some decent upside to the deal as well No chance Barnes/Ranaudo and Doubront gets the Red Sox Pederson. That's some wishful thinking. I'd think most likely the Dodgers would part with Pederson in a deal where the Sox include Jon Lester or more likely a deal where Tampa is dealing Price. The Dodgers really don't need starters but I'm sure they'd upgrade Danny Haren or even Ryu if they got David Price. Don't think they'd deal Pederson in a deal for Uehara but I could be wrong about that.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 1, 2014 8:29:48 GMT -5
Basically everything I read has said Pederson will not be traded. I saw one source, that I may try to dig up, that basically said he was off the board. I believe it was talking about a Price deal also, so I don't think we would have a great shot at getting him. I was hoping for a Lester - Pederson base deal.
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Post by ctfisher on Jul 1, 2014 8:48:05 GMT -5
In that case I'd say walk away. His numbers are definitely inflated by the PCL/the park they play in, and I'd much rather keep and re-sign lester than deal him for pederson. It'll be much easier to find another solid outfielder than it will to replace Lester this offseason
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Post by jmei on Jul 7, 2014 9:21:22 GMT -5
Joc Pederson is striking out 28.6% of the time in AAA. That's a huge, huge red flag, especially since we know his home ballpark massively inflates offense on balls in play and he's had some struggles with strikeouts in the past (22% in AA last year).
He's got enough other skills (above-average power and patience, speed on the basepaths, the range for RF in Fenway) to make him an appealing player even with a ton of strikeouts, but this is a guy who is going to struggle to hit .250 in the majors unless he curbs some of his swing-and-miss tendencies. Players with that profile can still have a lot of success in the majors (think George Springer or Justin Upton), but it puts a lot of pressure on his power to stick. If he falters a little there, or doesn't hit the ball hard enough to sustain a high BABIP, he could end up more of a corner-outfield-only B.J. Upton or Drew Stubbs or Colby Rasmus.
Don't get me wrong-- he's still one of the best outfield prospects in baseball, a guy who is very age-advanced (turned 22 in April) and oozes upside. But he's a higher-risk guy than you might think. As we've learned with Bradley and Middlebrooks, hitters who strike out a lot can find the transition to the majors tough, even when they've put up sparkling triple-slashes in the high minors.
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