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Jan 2014-June 2015 International Signings
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 22, 2014 17:28:06 GMT -5
The Yanks apparently have spent 471MM this offseason on ML free agents. They spent another 16MM on Int FAs. Tax penalties of 12MM attend the IFA signings and they will have millions more in luxury tax this year on their ML roster. Expense is not a factor. If the Yankees want him, he will end up there.
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Post by grandsalami on Feb 22, 2014 18:00:00 GMT -5
Where the heck would he even play on the Sox? (I want him also)
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Post by chavopepe2 on Feb 22, 2014 18:05:05 GMT -5
That issue exists with most of the teams rumored to be interested in him. He could be the utility infielder with Herrera starting in Pawtucket or the other way around. He is the perfect fit for the team. If they buy into his abilities I'd love to see him signed.
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Post by templeusox on Feb 22, 2014 18:31:22 GMT -5
Sox need to get on this Cuban gravy train. These guys are the market inefficiency. Cheap relative to most free agents and you don't lose a pick.
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Post by grandsalami on Feb 22, 2014 18:33:07 GMT -5
That issue exists with most of the teams rumored to be interested in him. He could be the utility infielder with Herrera starting in Pawtucket or the other way around. He is the perfect fit for the team. If they buy into his abilities I'd love to see him signed. But SS is taken for the long future by bogarts, and we have 2 (1 current) 3B.. So where can he go that we are weak on postion wise?
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Post by rasimon on Feb 22, 2014 19:56:50 GMT -5
That issue exists with most of the teams rumored to be interested in him. He could be the utility infielder with Herrera starting in Pawtucket or the other way around. He is the perfect fit for the team. If they buy into his abilities I'd love to see him signed. But SS is taken for the long future by bogarts, and we have 2 (1 current) 3B.. So where can he go that we are weak on postion wise? if he is really as good as some of the scouting reports suggest then when he is ready Diaz goes to SS, X goes to 3b, Cecchini to 1b, and Middlebrooks get traded (maybe to Marlins in a package for Stanton) simple
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 22, 2014 23:47:00 GMT -5
Sox need to get on this Cuban gravy train. These guys are the market inefficiency. Cheap relative to most free agents and you don't lose a pick. Who does this train consist of that has it so full of gravy?
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Post by soxcentral on Feb 23, 2014 7:50:15 GMT -5
Sox need to get on this Cuban gravy train. These guys are the market inefficiency. Cheap relative to most free agents and you don't lose a pick. Who does this train consist of that has it so full of gravy? Puig, Chapman, Cespedes, Iglesias off the top of my head. And it seems like more Cuban players are available every offseason.
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Post by soxfanatic on Feb 23, 2014 8:54:19 GMT -5
I expect the Sox to be heavily involved in the bidding for Cuban OF-er Rusney Castillo. The Sox lack centerfield depth in the high minors and as he right handed hitter, he could complement Bradley well.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 23, 2014 11:30:59 GMT -5
Chapman is great, but a closer, however well worth it and a stud.
Cespedes, regardless of his 2.9 WAR last year had a sub .295 OBP and .442 Slugging last year. Jury is still out, but I don't want that bat in my lineup if it's like that.
Iglesias was a train we were on and got off once they saw a window of opportunity to get some value. I know some people here are all about this guy being a starting short stop for the next 10-15 years. I think it's still a good chance he's Rey Ordonez 2.0. May be he holds a job though because offense is so bad at the position and his glove is gold, but he's not a guy I'd want in my lineup.
Puig, jury is out and I have my doubts. I think his year two is more like Cespedes, but his year 1 was better so perhaps the floor isn't so low.
A lot of the Cuban's don't have an approach at the plate which fits into the philosophy of recent successful Red Sox teams.
I wouldn't ignore the market, and I don't think they are, but Abreau just signed for $72m and he's a largely unknown guy who supposedly can't do anything but hit so if he struggles at all there he's a bust.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Feb 23, 2014 11:44:54 GMT -5
Chapman is great, but a closer, however well worth it and a stud. Cespedes, regardless of his 2.9 WAR last year had a sub .295 OBP and .442 Slugging last year. Jury is still out, but I don't want that bat in my lineup if it's like that. Iglesias was a train we were on and got off once they saw a window of opportunity to get some value. I know some people here are all about this guy being a starting short stop for the next 10-15 years. I think it's still a good chance he's Rey Ordonez 2.0. May be he holds a job though because offense is so bad at the position and his glove is gold, but he's not a guy I'd want in my lineup. Puig, jury is out and I have my doubts. I think his year two is more like Cespedes, but his year 1 was better so perhaps the floor isn't so low. A lot of the Cuban's don't have an approach at the plate which fits into the philosophy of recent successful Red Sox teams. I wouldn't ignore the market, and I don't think they are, but Abreau just signed for $72m and he's a largely unknown guy who supposedly can't do anything but hit so if he struggles at all there he's a bust. Cespedes hit .292/.356/.505 two years ago. By all accounts he was playing hurt last year and it really affected his performance. He signed for 4 years/$36M. That is a very good signing even if he doesn't bounce back to 2012 form. Iglesias signed for $6.25M on a minor league deal. He's already exceeded $10M in value and he still has five years of control left. He's being counted on as the starting shortstop for a first division club this year and I would be shocked if his defense didn't propel him to a 2+ WAR season this year. Puig signed a 7 year 42M deal. He put up a 4 fWAR last year, which covers more than half that contract in value. However skeptical you are - he could take a huge step backwards and still be worth considerably more than he is making. This was a tremendous signing. The recent success rate of Cuban signings is extraordinary. The fact that Abreu signed for what he did is a sign that the market is adjusting to this.
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Post by grandsalami on Feb 23, 2014 21:36:34 GMT -5
no DIAZ to the yankees Via George King: The Yankees will not offer free agent Cuban infielder Aledmys Diaz a contract following his private workout on Friday. They aren’t planning to offer right-hander Odrisamer Despaigne a contract either, but he isn’t much of a prospect. Diaz, 23, is said to be seeking upwards of $20M, according to King. He worked out for the club at their minor league complex in Tampa and I guess they weren’t all that impressed. The Yankees have reportedly been scouting Diaz for months, so they are familiar with him. There are questions about his long-term potential but it is surprising they won’t even make an off riveraveblues.com/2014/02/king-yankees-will-make-aledmys-diaz-contract-offer-99807/
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Post by templeusox on Feb 23, 2014 23:00:02 GMT -5
Remember, Puig was also unimpressive when he showcased for scouts in Mexico. Like Puig, Diaz hasn't played competitively in a while because of his immigration situation. linkThat's going to be a fun one to quotes for a few years.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 23, 2014 23:21:17 GMT -5
So did you like your own post on purpose, or did you hit something by accident?
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Post by templeusox on Feb 23, 2014 23:29:18 GMT -5
I didn't even know that was a thing, so I must have done it by accident. I do like my post though.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 24, 2014 6:25:52 GMT -5
Peter Gammons @pgammo Club take from Aledmys Dias Arizona workout:"Profiles as utility infielder...may struggle at short"
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Post by moonstone2 on Feb 24, 2014 6:48:23 GMT -5
Sox need to get on this Cuban gravy train. These guys are the market inefficiency. Cheap relative to most free agents and you don't lose a pick. I actually agree with you here. I think the reason for the inefficiency you describe is that there is so little real information on these guys from either from a performance or scouting standpoint. It's a lot of money to spend on a guy who doesn't look so great in a workout no matter how good he once looked in international competition. Though there were disappointments in the last batch of Cubans 10-15 years ago. However both Cepedes and Puig have been worth every penny, despite seeming expensive at the time they sign. What do you think of Raciel Iglesias?
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Post by joshv02 on Feb 24, 2014 9:29:08 GMT -5
They didn't just sign Iglesias - they signed Padron, Ibarra, Lineras, Iglesias for about $13mm (later dropped to ~$10mm after Ibarra's physical, iirc), and hit on one of the four. It probably was still worth it; but they've been in the market, they just took a different - more basket oriented -- strategy.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 24, 2014 10:46:50 GMT -5
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Post by oilcansman on Feb 24, 2014 11:39:04 GMT -5
People automatically get excited whenever they here the words "Cuban baseball player". Cespedes is good. Puig is impressive but just showed up to camp 26 pounds overweight and definitely is a hand full off the field. Iglesias can't hit. Chapman is a reliever. There are many other bonus babies that are not working out. If I'm the Red Sox, I treat the Cubans like the American prospects - carefully scout and be judicious. I don't see any inefficiency.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Feb 24, 2014 14:14:26 GMT -5
For the hundredth million time, it does not matter that Jose Iglesias can't hit. As a shortstop with 80 defense and only league average base running he would need to put up a an OBP and SLG of only .280/.340 to worth 2.5 WAR in 650 Plate Appearances. That is a WRC significantly lower than what Oliver, Streamer, and Bill James project for him as well. If he could hit at .320/.404 clip which is league average, he would be a 5 win player, so if your bar is he can't hit at a league average rate, your bar is that he can't be a perennial 5 Win player.
As far as the Cuban Gravy Train is concerned; there are a ton of excellent Cuban ball players right now in the Majors and high minors and it is exciting (at least for me - but I am Cuban). There is Puig, Soler, Cespedes, Iglesias, Jose Fernandez, Jose Abreu, Chapman, and coming soon Carlos Rondon (ok Cuban American). But those players have nothing to do with how much we should be willing to spend on Diaz or Raciel Iglesias. You scout the player not the place of birth, and no the inefficiency here is not that these guys are Cuban. Soler, Cespedes, and Chapman all got over 28 million, Puig got over 40, Abreau got almost 70; hell LA just signed two shortstops this offseason for 25 + and neither of them are all that good. These players carry much more risk, it not an actual market it is more like black jack. Some of these guys have the skills and tools to do well here some do not, the problem is that it is hard to tell until they get here.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 24, 2014 15:31:36 GMT -5
When WAR is completely tied to your defense that's not good in my opinion. It's a hard player to build a team with. Having a gaping hole in your lineup is not a good thing regardless of how good your defense is. Not to mention defensive stats are difficult to rely on and WAR isn't a literal stat.
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Post by oilcansman on Feb 24, 2014 18:35:56 GMT -5
sdiaz:
I can guarantee you if Iglesias puts up a .600 -.620 OPS Detroit will look for a replacement. Iglesias will need to be in the .680 to .720 range to make it in the american league. At best, Iglesias is a national league player. He basically has the same relative impact on an american league lineup as a pitcher in the national league.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Feb 25, 2014 0:43:50 GMT -5
sdiaz: I can guarantee you if Iglesias puts up a .600 -.620 OPS Detroit will look for a replacement. Iglesias will need to be in the .680 to .720 range to make it in the american league. At best, Iglesias is a national league player. He basically has the same relative impact on an american league lineup as a pitcher in the national league. First of all, while convenient and easy to use, OPS is not a very useful stat because it a) values OBP% and SLG% equally, when in fact a point of OBP is worth over 1.5 points of SLG and b)OPS is not park adjusted. Really we should be using WRC+ for this discussion, but because you selected OPS (a stat that btw undervalues Iglesias as he is more OBP heavy than SLG heavy) I will go ahead and use it as well. Last season the following seven players got over 90 starts for American League teams and OPSed below your arbitrary magic threshold. I will also note that none of these players, with the exception of Elvis Andrus, are currently anywhere as good in the field as Jose Iglesias is. Eduardo Nunez (NYY).678 –Slugging Heavy 83 WRC+Kawasaki (TOR) - .638 – Granted he played so much as a result of Reyes being hurt 78 WRC+Alcides Escobar (KCR)- .559 49 WRC+Pedro Florimon (MIN)- .611 68 WRC+Elvis Andrus (TEX) -.659 78 WRC+Brendan Ryan (SEA & NYY)- .520 44 WRC+Johnathan Villar (HOU) -.640 80 WRC+Yeah, some of these players played for teams that in no shape had any aspirations for contention. But Andrus, Nunez, and Escobar each played for a team that were playoff contenders throughout the season. It should also be noted that the four projection systems on Fangraphs have Iglesias pegged for a WRC+ of 76,77,77, &80. If he does that, he is practically last season's version of Elvis Andrus without the speed but with slightly better defense.
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Post by jmei on Feb 25, 2014 10:17:40 GMT -5
One note: wRC+ includes baserunning value, so Andrus' speed is already included in his 78 wRC+ last year (as is the marginal speed of others like Villar and Florimon and Kawasaki).
But other than that (and that nit-pick helps your argument), I completely agree. This isn't 2003 anymore, and the offensive baseline for shortstops is very low. The average AL shortstop hit .253/.306/.363/.669 (84 wRC+) last year. With Iglesias' glove, if he even matches that AL SS average line, he'll be a well above-average player (somewhere in the realm of three and a half wins, I think).
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