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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 17, 2014 11:11:51 GMT -5
Breaking News ?@breakingnews 3m3 minutes ago President Obama, Cuban President Raul Castro spoke Tuesday about normalizing relations, US official says - @ap www.breakingnews.com/t/N6W
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 17, 2014 11:33:07 GMT -5
Breaking News ?@breakingnews 3m3 minutes ago President Obama, Cuban President Raul Castro spoke Tuesday about normalizing relations, US official says - @ap www.breakingnews.com/t/N6WI'd say this answers my question from the Yoncada thread back in November: Also remember that for Cuban defectors in particular, a significant portion of their initial bonus goes towards paying the smugglers/"advisers"/etc. that got him off the island and set up his residency/housing/etc. during the period prior to signing. Those shady characters will want as large of a cut as possible and the initial bonus is pretty much the only time they'll receive guaranteed financial compensation for the considerable risks they take in getting a stud player out of Cuba. The point I was trying to make a page back, is that this guy may not be a defector. As far as we can tell - from his flights in and out of the country - he's not. It's true that Puig's story is a dark one filled with some difficult characters, apparently including elements of Los Zetas, but this looks different. My question is why? What has changed that has him walking the runway with tacit approval of the Cuban government? There's more to this than meets the eye. Could it be that the intrusion of the gangs into this business brought this to a head? This pretty much confirms it for me. This may be the only way to pry the cartels off the money train that Cuban baseball players who defect have been riding on. Puig's journey wasn't lost on anyone it seems.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Dec 17, 2014 14:32:31 GMT -5
Let's try to keep this on baseball. If you are interested on the political side of this there is a thread in the off-topic forum.
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Post by cba82 on Dec 17, 2014 16:56:52 GMT -5
Let's try to keep this on baseball. If you are interested on the political side of this there is a thread in the off-topic forum. This is a very relevant, baseball-related discussion, the full implications of which can't really be known right now, but will play out over time. My early reaction is that the flow of talent from Cuba will pick up considerably in the years to come. How this impacts the Red Sox in particular also is unknown, but my guess is that the edge that big-market teams have enjoyed in bidding up the limited supply of Cuban talent may normalize a bit; supply and demand, if you will.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 17, 2014 17:55:10 GMT -5
What The F*** Facts ?@whattheffacts 52m52 minutes ago The average salary in Cuba is $16.70 USD/month.
Even smaller contracts would have a huge effect on their economy.
I live in a Third World country which is roughly equal, per capita, to Cuba. I can pretty much guarantee that the cartels don't need to be pushing for this. Foreign currencies flowing into the economy are incredibly important to the well being of their country. To their government, who gets the money won't be the important question because currencies turn over several times, it filters down so to speak because the dollar/peso (or whatever) ratio changes as currencies flow between countries, not between individuals.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 17, 2014 19:35:05 GMT -5
Ben Badler ?@benbadler 6m6 minutes ago What could eventually happen: Cuba resembles the Mexican League. Government sells players to MLB teams, takes big cut. They will make bank. So what would prevent other nations from doing the same? Why wouldn't DR make baseball their chief export? Why wouldn't Venezuela follow suit? One is an exception, two becomes the rule. This has the potential to be a significant shake-up of the status quo. They don't have established professional leagues like Cuba does. Or I guess they do, but they're in the winter and they already have agreements in place on how they interact with MLB. Could also wind up with a posting system like Japan and Korea. Cuba is going to want to set something up with the U.S. to prevent all of their best players from leaving the island. And yeah, like Badler said, that Cuba WBC team is going to be ferocious now.
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Post by soxfan06 on Dec 17, 2014 20:31:31 GMT -5
I think Moancada's ability to travel to and from Cuba even though he is leaving to start an MLB career signaled this was coming. It certainly would make things a LOT easier for both the MLB clubs and the players if formal relations between the countries changed permanently.
Also, have to feel good for the Cubans that defected and are currently in MLB. You know they can't enjoy being pretty much exiled solely because they had to leave the country in order to improve their lively hood.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 17, 2014 20:53:12 GMT -5
What The F*** Facts ?@whattheffacts 52m52 minutes ago The average salary in Cuba is $16.70 USD/month. Even smaller contracts would have a huge effect on their economy. I live in a Third World country which is roughly equal, per capita, to Cuba. I can pretty much guarantee that the cartels don't need to be pushing for this. Foreign currencies flowing into the economy are incredibly important to the well being of their country. To their government, who gets the money won't be the important question because currencies turn over several times, it filters down so to speak because the dollar/peso (or whatever) ratio changes as currencies flow between countries, not between individuals. You may have misunderstood what I was driving at - wildly misunderstood. The cartels won't be pushing for this, at all. This will result in the US and Cuban governments pushing the gunmen out of it. Both governments have a strong interest in getting the transfer of baseball talent normalized through a direct relationship. Cuba stands to gain a revenue stream, and the US will stop a revenue stream the Mexican drug lords had interjected themselves into. I'm sure it's not the only matter driving this, but I'll bet it was one consideration.
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Post by stevedillard on Dec 17, 2014 21:15:17 GMT -5
I wonder what effect this change might have on Moncada's value. In some sense he is competing against the market of existing MLBers and prospects, but now there is a real prospect of having several top talents come in from Cuba. Does that somewhat drive down the market for him, as teams may be willing to wait for a new "big thing" in the market?
Also, I wonder how quickly MLB will be to fold Cuba into the draft. If not, the whole international bonus pool will eliminate many teams from bidding in the future. As it stands now, the Sox will not be able to get any Cuban player starting July 2 2015 to July 2017. That hurts.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Dec 17, 2014 21:19:28 GMT -5
I wonder what effect this change might have on Moncada's value. In some sense he is competing against the market of existing MLBers and prospects, but now there is a real prospect of having several top talents come in from Cuba. Does that somewhat drive down the market for him, as teams may be willing to wait for a new "big thing" in the market? Also, I wonder how quickly MLB will be to fold Cuba into the draft. If not, the whole international bonus pool will eliminate many teams from bidding in the future. As it stands now, the Sox will not be able to get any Cuban player starting July 2 2015 to July 2017. That hurts. Doesn't your last sentence (Which also applies to the Yankees) answer the question to the first paragraph? Teams that are overbudget already and are going to be locked out of the Cuban market in the next couple of years would be more willing to spend on a talent like Moncada. If the next big thing came along next year that would have done them no good in not going as aggressively on Moncada.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 17, 2014 22:44:21 GMT -5
What The F*** Facts ?@whattheffacts 52m52 minutes ago The average salary in Cuba is $16.70 USD/month. Even smaller contracts would have a huge effect on their economy. I live in a Third World country which is roughly equal, per capita, to Cuba. I can pretty much guarantee that the cartels don't need to be pushing for this. Foreign currencies flowing into the economy are incredibly important to the well being of their country. To their government, who gets the money won't be the important question because currencies turn over several times, it filters down so to speak because the dollar/peso (or whatever) ratio changes as currencies flow between countries, not between individuals. You may have misunderstood what I was driving at - wildly misunderstood. The cartels won't be pushing for this, at all. This will result in the US and Cuban governments pushing the gunmen out of it. Both governments have a strong interest in getting the transfer of baseball talent normalized through a direct relationship. Cuba stands to gain a revenue stream, and the US will stop a revenue stream the Mexican drug lords had interjected themselves into. I'm sure it's not the only matter driving this, but I'll bet it was one consideration. Could be but, let's not forget that the way business is done in several 3rd World countries, like the Dominican and Venezuela are pretty sleazy in their own right. It's not like baseball has a great record of cleaning up business standards. Big money in small economies will always draw that element.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 17, 2014 23:08:40 GMT -5
Except that it isn't the braintrust in the comish's office who thought this up. Teams such as the Dodgers seemed perfectly willing to overlook the sordid side of Puig's journey and sign him up. I'll bet there are plenty of others who'd take their place right now if the next great Cuban player emerged from a cloud of cocaine dust.
This is about the US and Cuba, country-to-country stuff. Rob Manfred may be invited to the signing ceremony and get a gift pen out of it. That will be about it as far as his participation goes.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 18, 2014 0:43:25 GMT -5
LOL, this guy has it nailed:
Nolen Bailey ?@realnolenbailey 13m13 minutes ago @npbtracker And we gotta get those dudes some cars. Power steering gonna change the game down there.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 18, 2014 9:41:39 GMT -5
I wonder what effect this change might have on Moncada's value. In some sense he is competing against the market of existing MLBers and prospects, but now there is a real prospect of having several top talents come in from Cuba. Does that somewhat drive down the market for him, as teams may be willing to wait for a new "big thing" in the market? Also, I wonder how quickly MLB will be to fold Cuba into the draft. If not, the whole international bonus pool will eliminate many teams from bidding in the future. As it stands now, the Sox will not be able to get any Cuban player starting July 2 2015 to July 2017. That hurts. You don't mean the Rule 4 draft, do you? Why would Cuba be subject to the draft? Also, most of the Cuban players who'd be subject to crazy bidding wars are over 23 and thus wouldn't be subject to the bonus pools.
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Post by stevedillard on Dec 18, 2014 9:48:38 GMT -5
For the same reason they incorporated PR into the draft and are moving toward an international draft for Dominicans and Venezuelans. It deoresses bidding wars and bonuses.
Once/if teams can sign Cuban players there will be no more player over age 23- they will all have been signed at ages 17 to 20.
The issue I was thinking about is that because of the current pool of players above age 16, but under the 23 yo cut off, there will be more than a few players worthy of going over budget on. That will make more teams is subject to the penalties and therefore more I nclined to ditch the current system and move to a draft.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 18, 2014 9:55:50 GMT -5
Ben Badler ?@benbadler 26m26 minutes ago The future of MLB and Cuban players, including the system Cuban officials will push for if the embargo ends: bit.ly/1AKMvVv
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 18, 2014 10:14:27 GMT -5
CBS Sports MLB ?@cbssportsmlb 2m2 minutes ago Japanese ace Kenta Maeda will not be posted this offseason cbsprt.co/1Auz8cf
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 18, 2014 20:28:46 GMT -5
Peter Gammons ?@pgammo 3h3 hours ago Baseball is extremely worried about Venezuela and possible revolution. Described as "the next Somalia" on news report. As good as the situation is looking in Cuba, the opposite can be said for Venezuela where they are on the verge of total collapse. They are currently financially insolvent and this one doesn't appear to be peaceful anytime soon. Not a good situation for baseball. . . . Kiley McDaniel ?@kileymcd 32m32 minutes ago 4 teams went over their Int'l bonus pools last year. I surveyed execs & they think 11 teams might do it this year www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-international-bonus-pools-dont-matter/ … . . . . Nick Cafardo ?@nickcafardo 3h3 hours ago Bidding closes on Korean SS Jung-ho Kang at 5 p.m. Winning team will be notified on Monday. Winning bidder has 30 days to decide
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Post by mgoetze on Dec 20, 2014 4:19:22 GMT -5
Nexen Heroes reportedly accept ~$5m posting fee for Jung-Ho Kang. The winning bidder, "Mystery Team", can now start negotiating a contract with Kang.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 20, 2014 19:20:50 GMT -5
Jesse Sanchez ?@jessesanchezmlb 5m5 minutes ago Cuban INF prospect Roberto Baldoquin passed his physical & signed with the #Angels. The deal is done.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 22, 2014 13:30:56 GMT -5
Nexen Heroes reportedly accept ~$5m posting fee for Jung-Ho Kang. The winning bidder, "Mystery Team", can now start negotiating a contract with Kang. Pirates won the bid.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Dec 22, 2014 16:03:21 GMT -5
Depending on how extensive and rapid the "normalization" of relations with Cuba turns out to be, this really could be an enormous change to MLB over the next decade ... Cuba has essentially the same population as the Dominican Republic and is at least as baseball crazy, so the potential talent pool there is enormous. Which teams will be among the first and best at starting to harvest that talent in a more systematic way? That's going to be a big competitive advantage ... what can teams do to lay the groundwork?
And, just on the nature of the game, if you add a talent pool the size of Cuba, the quality of play will likely go up, and the competition for slots is going to be fiercer. The cultural impact on the game will probably be significant, as more and more Spanish-speaking players form the core talent pools of more teams.
Personally, I suspect that no matter what the plans of the US and Cuban governments, this normalization is going to proceed quicker than they currently plan. It's going to be one of those situations that accelerates rapidly as the natural connections between the countries start to form in the absence of an artificial political separation.
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KB24
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Post by KB24 on Jan 9, 2015 11:54:12 GMT -5
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alnipper
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Post by alnipper on Jan 12, 2015 10:35:22 GMT -5
Welcome to Soxprospects whitekenyan24! He throws 4 pitches and has a fastball that touches 100mph, so I hope we are interested. He was waiting for the Office Of Foreign Assets Control around the same time as Moncada. There are a lot of things happening in Cuba of late.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jan 12, 2015 10:46:39 GMT -5
They should just go all in on Moncada and Lopez ... part of me wonders if the knowledge that these guys were coming was part of the calculus of blowing past the cap this year, but we'll have to see what happens next year. Boston's forced sabbatical from the big-money IFAs may be really poorly timed if a set of elite young Cubans hits the market post-July 1.
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