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Red Sox agree to sign Grady Sizemore
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jan 23, 2014 3:22:04 GMT -5
I don't know how these guys can compete after all these injuries. But sometimes they do.
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Post by benfromma on Jan 23, 2014 7:18:49 GMT -5
I agree with everybody that this is a very little risk signing. My only problem with it is that we are going to count on him instead of hoping that he can contribute. If you take a look at the player he has not really played since 2009 (2011 he was shell of himself). Hopefully this was move to hope he regains form and if he does a great signing and if not there are other plans in the works for depth.
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Post by soxcentral on Jan 23, 2014 8:00:41 GMT -5
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Post by soxfanatic on Jan 23, 2014 8:06:55 GMT -5
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Post by jmei on Jan 23, 2014 8:22:05 GMT -5
Confirms my suspicions earlier-- he must have looked pretty good physically, even if it's still unclear whether the baseball skills are still there.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 23, 2014 8:27:16 GMT -5
A few things here. It will certainly be good to see Sizemore back on the field. If he can stay passably intact and return to some semblance of his form from 7 years ago, that's a real plus. But the idea that he is a serious choice for the starting position in centerfield is the product of overheated imaginations, and Gomes' silly notions about tough love for young players. Sizemore's calling card was speed. That and a willingness to throw his body around. After 3 separate leg surgeries, its a real stretch to imagine that he will be anything more than a part time player. Moreover, he had an average arm at best. Bradley has a howitzer and he apparently gets tremendous reads on balls hit anywhere near him. Who do you want out there?
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Post by raftsox on Jan 23, 2014 8:53:26 GMT -5
I don't get the point. Is it event remotely possible he can still play centerfield? 2 micro fracture surgeries on his knee? Hasn't played in 2 years. If the answer there is no, then he can't really play right here either. The team already has Gomes and Carp. Speed was a big part of his game, offensively and defensively. The fact it's a major league deal bothers me, unless there is done miracle that he's back to being an explosive athlete. They basically signed him for the right to watch him in Spring Training. If he really can't play center (in a backup role) then they cut him and are off the hook for his salary. Carp was redundant with the Napoli re-signing; I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox already had a trade outlined.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jan 23, 2014 9:53:12 GMT -5
If he gets cut in Spring Training don't we lose the $750,000? A major league deal is guaranteed isn't it?
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Post by joshv02 on Jan 23, 2014 10:14:31 GMT -5
If he gets cut in Spring Training don't we lose the $750,000? A major league deal is guaranteed isn't it? Yes.
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Post by mattpicard on Jan 23, 2014 10:16:54 GMT -5
As mentioned earlier, $750,000 really isn't anything.
I'm extremely doubtful that Sizemore can even be average these days in center field. That collection of injuries spells doom for a guy whose game relied heavily on great speed, and his arm always played out below average as well. FWIW, DRS gave him negative ratings five years straight (2007-11) and UZR hasn't liked him either since 2007, though admittedly we're dealing with a limited sample. Of course, we really need to give him a look at the position this spring before saying he cannot play it, but really, Bradley Jr.'s tremendous defensive advantage plus his quality on-base skills make him an easy favorite for the everyday center field spot.
Now, I know this signing most likely is a depth option (or probably more of a look-and-see in ST scenario) in case of injury to one of the other outfielders, or some unforeseen struggles from JBJ, but Sizemore's likely lack of range in the outfield is highly concerning. I know we want to keep Victorino in right, but does anyone really think Victorino today wouldn't be a notably better defender in center than Sizemore? As for a corner spot, I'm sure Sizemore could adapt and provide at least adequate defense, but the main appeal of the signing seems to be focused on adding another potential center fielder.
His bat isn't without concern as well, but hey, $750,000 is the key number here. I don't see why it isn't worth a look in ST, and since he could end up being nothing for us, I don't see how this puts Carp or any other player at imminent risk to be moved.
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hank
Rookie
Posts: 98
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Post by hank on Jan 23, 2014 10:35:34 GMT -5
Hard to fault this move, and it's fun to dream about a comeback for someone who was so damned good. When he was on, he was fantastic, an MVP calibre corner outfielder who had the speed and gold-glove defense to play center. If they could count on him for even 50-80 games at 75% of what he was then that's the best 4th outfielder in either league. All for chump change. Compare with the risk the Yankees have taken on. It's the difference between all in at the baccarat table, and stuffing dollar bills into the slot machine in the corner, the one with the million dollar jackpot that hasn't paid off in three days. That sounds good but in reality the difference is more like being all in on a large piece of commercial real estate and buying 750,000 Power Ball tickets. Tanaka is going to be somewhere between Dice K and Yu Darvish in all likelihood, not a total bust. On the other hand the odds are overwhelming that Sizemore will not make the team. It's not just that he hasn't played in 2 years or that he's had a raft of injuries. He wasn't any good the two years before that. His steep decline and injury history makes you wonder if he was juicing. IMO it's more likely Ryan Kalish will be the opening day starter for the Cubs than Sizemore is on the roster at Fenway.
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Post by jmei on Jan 23, 2014 10:43:26 GMT -5
His steep decline and injury history makes you wonder if he was juicing. We've finally come full circle: if he performed well for a long period of time, he was probably juicing. If he got injured and his performance fell off, he was probably juicing. At least there's still a juicy middle to settle into (see, e.g., Frank Thomas). Seriously though, this is nonsense.
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Post by highcheeseandtaters on Jan 23, 2014 11:22:04 GMT -5
As mentioned earlier, $750,000 really isn't anything. I'm extremely doubtful that Sizemore can even be average these days in center field. That collection of injuries spells doom for a guy whose game relied heavily on great speed, and his arm always played out below average as well. FWIW, DRS gave him negative ratings five years straight (2007-11) and UZR hasn't liked him either since 2007, though admittedly we're dealing with a limited sample. Of course, we really need to give him a look at the position this spring before saying he cannot play it, but really, Bradley Jr.'s tremendous defensive advantage plus his quality on-base skills make him an easy favorite for the everyday center field spot. Now, I know this signing most likely is a depth option (or probably more of a look-and-see in ST scenario) in case of injury to one of the other outfielders, or some unforeseen struggles from JBJ, but Sizemore's likely lack of range in the outfield is highly concerning. I know we want to keep Victorino in right, but does anyone really think Victorino today wouldn't be a notably better defender in center than Sizemore? As for a corner spot, I'm sure Sizemore could adapt and provide at least adequate defense, but the main appeal of the signing seems to be focused on adding another potential center fielder. His bat isn't without concern as well, but hey, $750,000 is the key number here. I don't see why it isn't worth a look in ST, and since he could end up being nothing for us, I don't see how this puts Carp or any other player at imminent risk to be moved I'll take a contrarian viewpoint on the money.... Granted $750K is a drop in the bucket in the bigger scheme-- but $750,000 is $750,000 to a team that's pushing up on the cap threshold, and would likely have to find another destination for one of its starting pitcher arms to achieve meaningful cap room (assuming need or want for another acquisition.) Moreover, from Bradford's column, note the emphasis in Farrell's comments about "bringing him along slowly." This implies "long look" to me. When you consider those comments, the major league contract, incentives (however pie in the sky they may be) it sure sounds as if they are taking more than a flier on this guy. Barring another injury or an outright horrible showing in Ft. Meyers, it seems as though they plan on him being on the roster when they break camp. He may be a mere shadow of his old self, but with 6 full years experience prior to the onset of injuries in 2010, he hasn't completely forgotten how to play the position. CF could be a platoon of Bradley, Sizemore, and an occasional Victorino (if needed). If Sizemore can play a meaningful 40-50 games in CF and spot duty at the corners, that's really all they need. Forget UZR, WAR, etc., since the roster was devoid of a bench player who could play CF, and playing Victorino there wasn't palatable.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jan 23, 2014 11:24:02 GMT -5
My one potential issue with this is the difficulty of really seeing anything in spring training ... I guess you can see if he's reasonably healthy, but there's a middle ground that would make things complicated. What if he seems sound but not explosive? Do you give him some time to get his timing and game skills back? If you do that, you'll have to give up another depth asset (like Carp) or send JBJ down to Pawtucket for a while.
The ideal answer is that The Plan the Sox medical guru laid out included the words "disabled list" close to "start of the season" and then something that sounds like "rehab stint in the minors" ... because if everyone's agreed that his long-term health and viability would be best served by a slow ramp up to the major leagues that included starting out on a rehab stint in Pawtucket, then this is a slice of fried gold.
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Post by mattpicard on Jan 23, 2014 11:27:52 GMT -5
As mentioned earlier, $750,000 really isn't anything. I'm extremely doubtful that Sizemore can even be average these days in center field. That collection of injuries spells doom for a guy whose game relied heavily on great speed, and his arm always played out below average as well. FWIW, DRS gave him negative ratings five years straight (2007-11) and UZR hasn't liked him either since 2007, though admittedly we're dealing with a limited sample. Of course, we really need to give him a look at the position this spring before saying he cannot play it, but really, Bradley Jr.'s tremendous defensive advantage plus his quality on-base skills make him an easy favorite for the everyday center field spot. Now, I know this signing most likely is a depth option (or probably more of a look-and-see in ST scenario) in case of injury to one of the other outfielders, or some unforeseen struggles from JBJ, but Sizemore's likely lack of range in the outfield is highly concerning. I know we want to keep Victorino in right, but does anyone really think Victorino today wouldn't be a notably better defender in center than Sizemore? As for a corner spot, I'm sure Sizemore could adapt and provide at least adequate defense, but the main appeal of the signing seems to be focused on adding another potential center fielder. His bat isn't without concern as well, but hey, $750,000 is the key number here. I don't see why it isn't worth a look in ST, and since he could end up being nothing for us, I don't see how this puts Carp or any other player at imminent risk to be moved I'll take a contrarian viewpoint on the money.... Granted $750K is a drop in the bucket in the bigger scheme-- but $750,000 is $750,000 to a team that's pushing up on the cap threshold, and would likely have to find another destination for one of its starting pitcher arms to achieve meaningful cap room (assuming need or want for another acquisition.) Moreover, from Bradford's column, note the emphasis in Farrell's comments about "bringing him along slowly." This implies "long look" to me. When you consider those comments, the major league contract, incentives (however pie in the sky they may be) it sure sounds as if they are taking more than a flier on this guy. Barring another injury or an outright horrible showing in Ft. Meyers, it seems as though they plan on him being on the roster when they break camp. He may be a mere shadow of his old self, but with 6 full years experience prior to the onset of injuries in 2010, he hasn't completely forgotten how to play the position. CF could be a platoon of Bradley, Sizemore, and an occasional Victorino (if needed). If Sizemore can play a meaningful 40-50 games in CF and spot duty at the corners, that's really all they need. Forget UZR, WAR, etc., since the roster was devoid of a bench player who could play CF, and playing Victorino there wasn't palatable. It's not about him remembering how to play the position, it's about whether or not his body will allow him to play it sufficiently.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 23, 2014 11:43:15 GMT -5
[I'll take a contrarian viewpoint on the money.... Granted $750K is a drop in the bucket in the bigger scheme-- but $750,000 is $750,000 to a team that's pushing up on the cap threshold, and would likely have to find another destination for one of its starting pitcher arms to achieve meaningful cap room (assuming need or want for another acquisition.) The Red Sox aren't going to go over the cap by $750K. It just won't. If they happen to be threading that needle where the huge upgrade they want puts them in that tiny range $750K over the cap, they'll be able to dump a contract. You can argue that the player they dump (Carp, for example) would be worth more than Sizemore, and that's possible, but that's a different argument. There is zero chance that the Sizemore signing costs them the chance to add a franchise-type player. They also have the choice to exercise Lackey's option now, which would spread his cap number out.
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Post by highcheeseandtaters on Jan 23, 2014 11:59:52 GMT -5
I'll take a contrarian viewpoint on the money.... Granted $750K is a drop in the bucket in the bigger scheme-- but $750,000 is $750,000 to a team that's pushing up on the cap threshold, and would likely have to find another destination for one of its starting pitcher arms to achieve meaningful cap room (assuming need or want for another acquisition.) Moreover, from Bradford's column, note the emphasis in Farrell's comments about "bringing him along slowly." This implies "long look" to me. When you consider those comments, the major league contract, incentives (however pie in the sky they may be) it sure sounds as if they are taking more than a flier on this guy. Barring another injury or an outright horrible showing in Ft. Meyers, it seems as though they plan on him being on the roster when they break camp. He may be a mere shadow of his old self, but with 6 full years experience prior to the onset of injuries in 2010, he hasn't completely forgotten how to play the position. CF could be a platoon of Bradley, Sizemore, and an occasional Victorino (if needed). If Sizemore can play a meaningful 40-50 games in CF and spot duty at the corners, that's really all they need. Forget UZR, WAR, etc., since the roster was devoid of a bench player who could play CF, and playing Victorino there wasn't palatable. It's not about him remembering how to play the position, it's about whether or not his body will allow him to play it sufficiently. I'd considered that. The fact it's his natural position and he's played it well in the past doesn't obscure the physical inability to do so NOW... I was thinking more along the lines that his experience at the position, with a decent health would allow him to be "adequate" for 40-50 starts-- ability to take the right angle to the ball, get a jump, etc., He doesn't have to be the every day guy, he just has to be the opposite of Willie Mo Pena, et al.
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Post by patrmac04 on Jan 23, 2014 13:20:12 GMT -5
Confirms my suspicions earlier-- he must have looked pretty good physically, even if it's still unclear whether the baseball skills are still there. I would be surprised if he started the season, healthy and contributing. If he does stick, I don't see it being with full time playing duties. That said, the only thing that could possibly heal his serious injuries are time and rest... he certainly gave his body it's best last chance. Something in me thinks that this will be a Tim Teabow non-moment all over again no matter how much I hope for the contrary. He must have looked darn good if they gave him a MLB contract though... so there is always that hope in the back of my mind. The more likely situation... the Sox are treating this like the rule 5 and stash him on DL once the season starts.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jan 23, 2014 21:09:39 GMT -5
[I'll take a contrarian viewpoint on the money.... Granted $750K is a drop in the bucket in the bigger scheme-- but $750,000 is $750,000 to a team that's pushing up on the cap threshold, and would likely have to find another destination for one of its starting pitcher arms to achieve meaningful cap room (assuming need or want for another acquisition.) The Red Sox aren't going to go over the cap by $750K. It just won't. If they happen to be threading that needle where the huge upgrade they want puts them in that tiny range $750K over the cap, they'll be able to dump a contract. You can argue that the player they dump (Carp, for example) would be worth more than Sizemore, and that's possible, but that's a different argument. There is zero chance that the Sizemore signing costs them the chance to add a franchise-type player. They also have the choice to exercise Lackey's option now, which would spread his cap number out. I know this is off topic, but I think James makes a good point. Doesn't it make sense to pick up Lackey's option now for cap reasons? On topic, I'm rooting for Grady ,but shocked he got a deal for the bigs.
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Post by Matt Huegel on Jan 23, 2014 21:31:05 GMT -5
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Post by ray88h66 on Jan 23, 2014 21:37:53 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 23, 2014 23:37:33 GMT -5
An informative post from OhioSoxFan on Uponthemonster.com:
I've had microfracture surgery - actually, by the Dr who invented it (US ski team Dr, Richard Steadman).
I had mine done in 1997. He said I'd be able to return to competitive running, but that I'd eventually have to have the procedure repeated, because the new cartiledge isn't as long lasting as the original equipment. He said it was good for 15 years. Note: I'm now at year 17, and doing well.
It took about 6 months to feel confident enough to run hard on it, but since then it's been pretty solid. I never got back to the high mileage running I did in the past, but that was mostly because I added a few (dozen) pounds and am not quite as svelt as I used to be. I also had two meniscus tears which are probably tougher on my knees than the microfracture.
I'd suggest the mcirofracture shouldn't be a big problem.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 23, 2014 23:49:19 GMT -5
A second post by OhioSoxFan is pretty descriptive of the results:
Articular cartilage (that is, the cartilage that covers the end of bones) is sort of like orange peel - if it rips or gets a hole in it, it peels off and loosens like an orange peel. The drs go in and first peel off any loosened cartilage. Then they drill into the bone marrow, which oozes out and forms new cartilage-like covering where the articular cartilage has been removed.
It's really quite amazing. I've had 5 knee surgeries (and yes, I still run some) and when they went in the second time to the knee that had the micro-fracture, it was as smooth as a billiard ball. I was awake for the surgery and watched it on a monitor over the operating table - wild, huh? Anyway, the only way you could tell it wasn't the original stuff was that it was a slightly off-white.
A torn meniscus is harder on the knees than a micro-fracture, because the meniscus is the cushioning between the upper and lower leg bones in the knee.
Dr. Steadman has been using this technique to repair skiers' knees since the 1970s.
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Post by jmei on Jan 24, 2014 0:08:15 GMT -5
I previous posted about microfracture surgery here (in the context of Corey Hart). Suffice it to say, it is a pretty big problem, and we should certainly not assume that Sizemore's knees are basically as good as new.
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Post by burythehammer on Jan 24, 2014 7:32:16 GMT -5
I'm highly skeptical that this will turn into anything. "Competition for JBJ" please.
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