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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 15, 2014 9:11:54 GMT -5
Obviously it's a god idea to wait, but this forum would be boring as he'll if we waited on everything before we talked about it. The point of the latest posts is that the man himself is saying it'd be foolish to even try to play everyday regardless how he feels and he's right. In his situation, you can feel just fine until you don't and it's a major career ending issue. My guess is the Sox said something similar to him which is why he's here.
So I speculate again, if he's good enough to make the team and both he and the team agree he shouldn't play more then 100-120 games the who's the other center fielder on the roster and who's the odd man out?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 15, 2014 9:35:26 GMT -5
Seems obvious to me, Carp would be the odd man out. Decent trade value and redundancy. If you go with Gomes, you are overlooking the left/right batter situation. Bradley to Pawtucket would only work if Sizemore could handle seven weeks of being the starter.
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Post by jdb on Feb 15, 2014 11:07:29 GMT -5
Agree if Sizemore is healthy I think Carps the odd man out. Maybe send him and a subsidized Dempster somewhere to increase the package. I think Sizemore could be a good option vs RHP and defensive replacement in LF . Maybe you see more Nava at first or RF. The Grady from the mid 2000's isn't happening.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 15, 2014 14:35:29 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry so much about the roster "crunch". Injuries have a way of sorting things out. Odds that everybody stays healthy at the same time aren't great. Victorino had his share of injuries last year. The all out way he plays it wouldn't be shocking to see him land on the DL at some point. Sizemore should be to the DL as what Andrew Bailey was. If Sizemore looks incredibly great in spring training he has a shot at CF while Bradley would be in AAA to start.
That's most unlikely though. The most realistic scenario is that Sizemore winds up in extended spring training and a rehab taking him to perhaps May. By then an injury should pop up among 1b/dh/lf/cf/rf and worrying about if Carp gets bumped off the roster would be a moot point.
If the Sox are able to maneuver the roster thru Sept 1st and find themselves healthy and in the playoffs they'd only likely go with 11 pitchers anyways opening up a spot for all involved.
I think it's not much of a problem to worry about. I do think that jdb has a point that if there is a crunch at some point and an issue arises somewhere they can package Dempster and Carp or deal separately - there are options. It's the lack of options that are troublesome and fortunately that's not the situation here.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 15, 2014 15:23:24 GMT -5
Would the theoretically healthy Sizemore be a better RF option than Nava?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 15, 2014 15:59:02 GMT -5
Would the theoretically healthy Sizemore be a better RF option than Nava? A theoretically healthy Sizemore would be a better RF option than Nava whom the Sox seem to be grooming as Carp's replacement if he were dealt in that he can also back up Napoli at 1b if need be. It's funny/ironic that Nava wound up in RF for Game 4 and 5 of the World Series when Victorino got hurt. |
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Post by jdb on Feb 15, 2014 17:58:59 GMT -5
I don't think Sizemore has the arm for RF.
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Post by jmei on Feb 15, 2014 19:39:10 GMT -5
I don't think Sizemore has the arm for RF. Yeah, even in his prime, he was widely regarded as noodle-armed. He might still be the best option in RF (if healthy) because of his range advantage over Nava, but his arm is definitely better suited to LF or CF. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 15, 2014 20:09:04 GMT -5
From an old MLBTraderumors (Jan 23):
Red Sox GM Ben Cherington told Jason Mastrodonato of MassLive.com that despite signing Grady Sizemore to a Major League deal, there are no guarantees that the former Indians star will make the Opening Day roster. Cherington didn't rule out a minor league assignment for Sizemore.
Also from Mastrodonato (on Twitter), Red Sox manager John Farrell told reporters at tonight's BBWAA dinner, "We're going to have Jackie Bradley in center field." Mastrodonato adds that Cherington said, "We believe in Jackie Bradley."
To put Grady in the minors, he'd have to clear waivers, I assume, because he has no options. I'm guessing here that if this were to happen, this one would fall into the category of the "gentelmen's agreement" that we used to periodically mention.
ADD: I also assume accepting the assignment would be Grady's option. Maybe this was one of the potential outcomes discussed when Grady signed the initial Sox contract. If we recall, he changed his mind at the last minute and signed with the Sox because we were the only team that came up with a "plan". Maybe Grady's playing everyday statement was referring to this potential outcome.
Pure speculation on my part....
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Post by Gwell55 on Feb 15, 2014 21:50:51 GMT -5
From an old MLBTraderumors (Jan 23): Red Sox GM Ben Cherington told Jason Mastrodonato of MassLive.com that despite signing Grady Sizemore to a Major League deal, there are no guarantees that the former Indians star will make the Opening Day roster. Cherington didn't rule out a minor league assignment for Sizemore.
Also from Mastrodonato (on Twitter), Red Sox manager John Farrell told reporters at tonight's BBWAA dinner, "We're going to have Jackie Bradley in center field." Mastrodonato adds that Cherington said, "We believe in Jackie Bradley." To put Grady in the minors, he'd have to clear waivers, I assume, because he has no options. I'm guessing here that if this were to happen, this one would fall into the category of the "gentelmen's agreement" that we used to periodically mention. ADD: I also assume accepting the assignment would be Grady's option. Maybe this was one of the potential outcomes discussed when Grady signed the initial Sox contract. If we recall, he changed his mind at the last minute and signed with the Sox because we were the only team that came up with a "plan". Maybe Grady's playing everyday statement was referring to this potential outcome. Pure speculation on my part.... Are you sure he is out of options? I only see him being called up in 2004... than staying up till 2011. Would he have another option than? |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 15, 2014 23:08:35 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 16, 2014 20:39:57 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry so much about the roster "crunch". Injuries have a way of sorting things out. Odds that everybody stays healthy at the same time aren't great. From here forward can we skip this type of statement? No one is really worried about anything and we all know injuries have a way of sorting things out. Or we can just shutdown the board and not bother talking about roster situations. |
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Post by jmei on Feb 16, 2014 22:20:55 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry so much about the roster "crunch". Injuries have a way of sorting things out. Odds that everybody stays healthy at the same time aren't great. From here forward can we skip this type of statement? No one is really worried about anything and we all know injuries have a way of sorting things out. Or we can just shutdown the board and not bother talking about roster situations. There were plenty of people worried about how Sizemore would get a roster spot, in light of the fact that he got a major league deal. You yourself posted earlier implying that Sizemore is mutually exclusive with Carp, which is exactly the fallacy that 0407 was trying to correct (i.e., an injury to any one of Victorino/Bradley/Nava/Gomes/Ortiz/Napoli/Carp during Spring Training means that Sizemore can stick on the roster without anyone getting traded (at least until everyone gets healthy)). |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 16, 2014 22:27:52 GMT -5
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 16, 2014 22:40:21 GMT -5
With today's news about Dempster, this seems like as good a time as any to reiterate my oft-made point that the person Sizemore replaces on the roster shouldn't be Carp or Bradley, but whoever the Sox seventh best reliever is.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 17, 2014 10:30:38 GMT -5
From here forward can we skip this type of statement? No one is really worried about anything and we all know injuries have a way of sorting things out. Or we can just shutdown the board and not bother talking about roster situations. There were plenty of people worried about how Sizemore would get a roster spot, in light of the fact that he got a major league deal. You yourself posted earlier implying that Sizemore is mutually exclusive with Carp, which is exactly the fallacy that 0407 was trying to correct (i.e., an injury to any one of Victorino/Bradley/Nava/Gomes/Ortiz/Napoli/Carp during Spring Training means that Sizemore can stick on the roster without anyone getting traded (at least until everyone gets healthy)). That's not the point, I think everyone here is smart enough to realize that injuries changes the picture. The discussion holds meaning if everyone is. Who's going to make the bullpen? Don't worry injuries will work it out. Who's the odd man out in the Pawtucket rotation? Doesn't matter injuries will sort it out. Who's the backup center fielder? Don't bother discussing it because injuries will tell us. If nothing else I think the board needs to have a universal shorthand to avoid having to put this caveat in every post. Maybe it's just he, but I ferrite a given that injuries typically sort things out, but we discuss the options should everyone be healthy. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 17, 2014 10:44:46 GMT -5
I don't get the point. Is it event remotely possible he can still play centerfield? 2 micro fracture surgeries on his knee? Hasn't played in 2 years. If the answer there is no, then he can't really play right here either. The team already has Gomes and Carp. Speed was a big part of his game, offensively and defensively. The fact it's a major league deal bothers me, unless there is done miracle that he's back to being an explosive athlete. And to build off this post of mine you referenced, this is exactly my point. There is no fallacy here. Alll that is missing is the explanation that if there is an injury to (Bradley, Vic, Nava, Gomes, Carp, Napoli or Ortiz) then they can go on the DL and Sizemore has a spot without losing someone. I feel that's completely understood as part of these discussions. But I guess it needs to be explained every time... Good to know. More importantly, I hope Grady has the longterm view in mind, like Andrew Miller did, and goes to AAA. Now that we know this is a possibility, assuming everyone is healthy, this makes the most sense for the team and Grady. His workload can be customized without worry of wins/losses and he will still get paid his MLB money. I hope that has been already worked out with him as a distinct possibility. |
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Post by jmei on Feb 17, 2014 12:08:18 GMT -5
If there's a high likelihood that an injury will pop up (and there usually is-- I'd guess in both the Sizemore and bullpen cases, greater than 50%), then the importance of the "who is the odd man out" discussion is diminished. You can continue to discuss the roster squeeze assuming everyone is healthy, but his point is that that discussion is not a big deal because it's more likely than not that it won't matter. It means that all the negative reactions to this deal, including your initial one, are exaggerated because Sizemore's addition is unlikely to squeeze out Carp. If you understood that in the post I linked to above, it sure didn't seem like it, because you seemed adamant that the addition of Sizemore meant they'd trade Carp and that made this transaction a bad one from your point of view.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Feb 17, 2014 12:30:24 GMT -5
That's kind of interesting ... I mean, I doubt he'd go for it, but if there's an agreement on his pathway back to health that's more nuanced than "play in the major leagues when you can," it may make sense to option him at some point this season. There would have to be a lot of trust on both sides for that kind of thing to happen, but I can see it as a possibility. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 22, 2014 13:51:25 GMT -5
Let's temper:
Nick Cafardo ?@nickcafardo 7m
John Farrell said Grady Sizemore has looked so good that the team needs to temper it's enthusiasm because there's a long way to go.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Feb 22, 2014 14:51:02 GMT -5
I know it's nothing we can count on...but what if Sizemore is healthy, stays healthy, and produces???
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Post by Gwell55 on Feb 22, 2014 14:56:33 GMT -5
I know it's nothing we can count on...but what if Sizemore is healthy, stays healthy, and produces??? We will pay him close to 6M (if it is big production) and next year he will get a contract elsewhere for more. |
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Post by zil on Feb 22, 2014 16:03:23 GMT -5
I know it's nothing we can count on...but what if Sizemore is healthy, stays healthy, and produces??? Then he's our starting left fielder. |
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Post by greatscottcooper on Feb 22, 2014 16:09:14 GMT -5
Ok, lets say he stays healthy puts up 600 PA and a 5 WAR. Does he get a Q.O.? or just thank him for the year and let him walk?
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 22, 2014 16:11:24 GMT -5
QO gets offered - we shouldn't take this conversation any further though.
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