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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 12, 2014 14:56:15 GMT -5
Didn't Yaz always tinker with his stance? Not sure why Ockimay can't tweak some things. I've posted before that baseball needs to get better American athletes playing it. White, brown or black. I watched UVA play over the weekend and if I see another lanky, caucasian with a LH powerless swing I might join La Revolucion and help rid the world of imperialist yanquis!
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 12, 2014 15:30:07 GMT -5
Until he hurt his wrist he stayed pretty much, wrists above his head, back back and forth, then come down on the ball. A lot of movement.
Think what you are remembering is between '71 and when he finally changed to the "Hriniak way" and he changed a lot, tho not as much as Dwight Evans who would change multiple times a game even.
Once Yaze went with the "Hriniak approach" he used it until his retirement and am thinking that change was midway..77?
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Jun 12, 2014 19:09:07 GMT -5
Until he hurt his wrist he stayed pretty much, wrists above his head, back back and forth, then come down on the ball. A lot of movement. Think what you are remembering is between '71 and when he finally changed to the "Hriniak way" and he changed a lot, tho not as much as Dwight Evans who would change multiple times a game even. Once Yaze went with the "Hriniak approach" he used it until his retirement and am thinking that change was midway..77? Dewey was infuriating. Sometimes he would be so pigeoned toed and awkward, he wouldn't get a ball out of the infield for what seemed like a month, then he would spend a couple of weeks tattooing the monster. These are just kids. Tinker away! |
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Post by jimoh on Jun 12, 2014 21:07:21 GMT -5
Until he hurt his wrist he stayed pretty much, wrists above his head, back back and forth, then come down on the ball. A lot of movement. Think what you are remembering is between '71 and when he finally changed to the "Hriniak way" and he changed a lot, tho not as much as Dwight Evans who would change multiple times a game even. Once Yaze went with the "Hriniak approach" he used it until his retirement and am thinking that change was midway..77? Yaz I think never really went with the "Hriniak approach"; he never swung down on the ball. Hriniak was never the actual hitting coach until after Yaz retired, though some hitters talked to him before he officially became hitting coach in 1984. |
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 12, 2014 22:21:36 GMT -5
Until he hurt his wrist he stayed pretty much, wrists above his head, back back and forth, then come down on the ball. A lot of movement. Think what you are remembering is between '71 and when he finally changed to the "Hriniak way" and he changed a lot, tho not as much as Dwight Evans who would change multiple times a game even. Once Yaze went with the "Hriniak approach" he used it until his retirement and am thinking that change was midway..77? Yaz I think never really went with the "Hriniak approach"; he never swung down on the ball. Hriniak was never the actual hitting coach until after Yaz retired, though some hitters talked to him before he officially became hitting coach in 1984. If I remember from Yaz's book, he switched to holding his wrists above his head prior to the 1967 at the suggestion of hitting coach Bobby Doerr and he had the season of his life. It helped him hit for more power. Eventually he got pull crazy during the early 1970s, and then he got injured at some point toward the end of the 1975 season and he changed his style because he couldn't hold his wrist up that high prior to his swing. I think it was during mid 1976 when he felt alright enough to try that style again, and he was productive that way. I don't recall him ever hitting down on the ball, though, a la Walt Hriniak style. As far as Evans went he seemed pretty confused until he got his batting stance and style more consistent in 1981 when he blossomed offensively. I remember that pigeon toed stance. Rich Gedman had that too and his Hriniak swing was even more exaggerated than Dewey's. I wish I could remember what Gedman said when we were at a SABR meeting in RI and he was asked about teaching the Hriniak style to the young hitters coming up. The only thing I remember him saying was that he liked Bogaerts but remembered how uncomfortable he was playing in the cold weather. I remember asking him about Shaw and he thought Shaw had a chance to be a major league hitter. |
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 13, 2014 0:40:43 GMT -5
Going just from memories of course..
'75 wa the back injury to Yaz, same one that hurt his numbers that year compared to '74 and '76, but I thought remembered his hands still being down to just above his waist by that time even at the start.
Memories fade, no doubt. Evans used that toe tap post 80-81, that remember and was crucial to him becoming a superior hitter the 2nd half of his career.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 13, 2014 9:40:02 GMT -5
Yaz I think never really went with the "Hriniak approach"; he never swung down on the ball. Hriniak was never the actual hitting coach until after Yaz retired, though some hitters talked to him before he officially became hitting coach in 1984. If I remember from Yaz's book, he switched to holding his wrists above his head prior to the 1967 at the suggestion of hitting coach Bobby Doerr and he had the season of his life. It helped him hit for more power. Eventually he got pull crazy during the early 1970s, and then he got injured at some point toward the end of the 1975 season and he changed his style because he couldn't hold his wrist up that high prior to his swing. I think it was during mid 1976 when he felt alright enough to try that style again, and he was productive that way. I don't recall him ever hitting down on the ball, though, a la Walt Hriniak style. As far as Evans went he seemed pretty confused until he got his batting stance and style more consistent in 1981 when he blossomed offensively. I remember that pigeon toed stance. Rich Gedman had that too and his Hriniak swing was even more exaggerated than Dewey's. I wish I could remember what Gedman said when we were at a SABR meeting in RI and he was asked about teaching the Hriniak style to the young hitters coming up. The only thing I remember him saying was that he liked Bogaerts but remembered how uncomfortable he was playing in the cold weather. I remember asking him about Shaw and he thought Shaw had a chance to be a major league hitter. It's actually the Charlie Lau-style, but in any event Gedman should know that it can ruin a young hitter's swing. Perfect example is Gedman's swing. He was out of the majors at 33 when he peaked with a 5.6 WAR season at age 25. He had a great swing and then Hriniak ruined it, took away all of his power and didn't improve his contact either. |
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Post by jimoh on Jun 13, 2014 9:59:49 GMT -5
1971 was when Yaz hurt his wrist. He went nearly a year, from mid 71 to mid 72 without a HR or with only 1 or 2, and at one point considered taping the bats to his hands, until someone pointed out that he would have to run with it.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 13, 2014 10:40:05 GMT -5
You didn't have to start a whole new thread based on my opinion. But, I don't think it's a big deal for an athlete to make some adjustments. Now, Chris Hatfield is going to want to off me.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 13, 2014 12:38:16 GMT -5
Going just from memories of course.. '75 wa the back injury to Yaz, same one that hurt his numbers that year compared to '74 and '76, but I thought remembered his hands still being down to just above his waist by that time even at the start. Memories fade, no doubt. Evans used that toe tap post 80-81, that remember and was crucial to him becoming a superior hitter the 2nd half of his career. I believe the 1975 injury to Yaz was a wrist injury. I think he had a collision with a baserunner while playing 1b. I think he was trying to do a swipe tag or something like that when a runner ran into him. I'm not 100% sure about that, though. I know he messed up his ribs crashing into a wall to catch Jim Essian's liner on Aug 30, 1980. I know this because as an 8 year old at the time I was so excited to see my favorite player Yaz during my first game ever at Fenway on Aug 31, 1980, but Yaz was out of the lineup with that injury. At least I got to see him play in 1981 and 1982. And yes, Dewey changed his batting stance midway thru the 1980 season after he was struggling mightily and losing playing time to Jim Dwyer. Evans had a great second half with that change and then the change of managers benefitted him greatly when Houk became manager in 1981 and was smart enough to install him into the #2 spot in the order. Even when Dewey was only a .250 - .260 hitter in the late 1970s he still walked a lot and got on base but the manager Zimmer wasn't smart enough to notice this and preferred to put guys with low OBP who fit the images better of 1-2 hitters than somebody with Evans' profile. So Remy and Burleson batted 1-2 and Evans batted toward the bottom of the order. |
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 13, 2014 16:08:47 GMT -5
Sort of agree with that, then Dwight Evans and many Red Sox players swore by him for improvements and even tho hriniak wasn't the "official" hitting coach during the late 70's, he was opensly instructing many players with his/Lau's theory on hitting.
I tell you someone who HATED it, was Ted Williams, many probably remember. Williams was always a guest instructor to ST during the 70's and would try to coach one player who was having the most trouble the season before if they were willing.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 13, 2014 16:24:52 GMT -5
Sort of agree with that, then Dwight Evans and many Red Sox players swore by him for improvements and even tho hriniak wasn't the "official" hitting coach during the late 70's, he was opensly instructing many players with his/Lau's theory on hitting. I tell you someone who HATED it, was Ted Williams, many probably remember. Williams was always a guest instructor to ST during the 70's and would try to coach one player who was having the most trouble the season before if they were willing. It seemed to be very cultish. Cecchini seems to have the same swing. I'm not a fan. I agreed with Williams. |
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Post by jimoh on Jun 13, 2014 17:13:39 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 13, 2014 17:25:13 GMT -5
Cecchini's dad was probably influenced by someone who was influenced by them. It looks very similar. Keep your head down, level swing, try to hit line drives up the middle, hang your head in shame if you hit a home run. |
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Post by terriblehondo on Jun 13, 2014 20:09:59 GMT -5
Jimed you can agree with Williams style. But you cannot say the Lau/Hriniak style does not work. There are to many great hitters that used that style. Does it work for everyone no. Does Williams style work for everyone no. Frank Thomas, George Brett, Dwight Evans and Cecil Cooper all used that style and all had plenty of power. It use to piss me off that Boggs did not hit more HR's too.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 13, 2014 20:19:58 GMT -5
It was pretty ironic/funny that Boggs hit those 24hr one season when the team got onto him about being a singles hitter and not wanting to give him "big money" that one year. Not looking it all up, but then he never did hit that large amount again and it proved he could have compromised on his OBP/power numbers early on had he wanted, probably ended up as a better overall player than he was, though he was a great one anyway.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 13, 2014 21:24:08 GMT -5
It was pretty ironic/funny that Boggs hit those 24hr one season when the team got onto him about being a singles hitter and not wanting to give him "big money" that one year. Not looking it all up, but then he never did hit that large amount again and it proved he could have compromised on his OBP/power numbers early on had he wanted, probably ended up as a better overall player than he was, though he was a great one anyway. I know he hit .363 with 24 homers in 1987, but I don't take that as proof that he would have been as good a player if he swung for the fences more often. I know those 24 homers stick out like a sore thumb, but 1987 was a weird year. Home runs were flying out of the ballpark that year and the league ERA was around 4.5. In the 1990s and first half of 2000, that was commonplace, but in during the 1981 - 1986 time period, not so much. Boggs was extremely valuable as he was - a guy who got on base at least 300 times per season. |
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Post by terriblehondo on Jun 14, 2014 11:47:52 GMT -5
It was pretty ironic/funny that Boggs hit those 24hr one season when the team got onto him about being a singles hitter and not wanting to give him "big money" that one year. Not looking it all up, but then he never did hit that large amount again and it proved he could have compromised on his OBP/power numbers early on had he wanted, probably ended up as a better overall player than he was, though he was a great one anyway. I know he hit .363 with 24 homers in 1987, but I don't take that as proof that he would have been as good a player if he swung for the fences more often. I know those 24 homers stick out like a sore thumb, but 1987 was a weird year. Home runs were flying out of the ballpark that year and the league ERA was around 4.5. In the 1990s and first half of 2000, that was commonplace, but in during the 1981 - 1986 time period, not so much. Boggs was extremely valuable as he was - a guy who got on base at least 300 times per season. Hall of Fame hitter. I wish players today would watch tape of how he would waste pitches by fouling them off until he got his to hit. I just felt he could have hit 15 a year without it impacting his game. Then he went off for 24 when as Johnsilver said there was some kind of pissing match. It sure seemed to prove my point that he could do it if he wanted to. I always thought he was more concerned with his numbers than winning the game. |
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 14, 2014 12:26:58 GMT -5
I know he hit .363 with 24 homers in 1987, but I don't take that as proof that he would have been as good a player if he swung for the fences more often. I know those 24 homers stick out like a sore thumb, but 1987 was a weird year. Home runs were flying out of the ballpark that year and the league ERA was around 4.5. In the 1990s and first half of 2000, that was commonplace, but in during the 1981 - 1986 time period, not so much. Boggs was extremely valuable as he was - a guy who got on base at least 300 times per season. Hall of Fame hitter. I wish players today would watch tape of how he would waste pitches by fouling them off until he got his to hit. I just felt he could have hit 15 a year without it impacting his game. Then he went off for 24 when as Johnsilver said there was some kind of pissing match. It sure seemed to prove my point that he could do it if he wanted to. I always thought he was more concerned with his numbers than winning the game.You know that you can't pass the ball in baseball, right? |
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 14, 2014 21:14:45 GMT -5
I know he hit .363 with 24 homers in 1987, but I don't take that as proof that he would have been as good a player if he swung for the fences more often. I know those 24 homers stick out like a sore thumb, but 1987 was a weird year. Home runs were flying out of the ballpark that year and the league ERA was around 4.5. In the 1990s and first half of 2000, that was commonplace, but in during the 1981 - 1986 time period, not so much. Boggs was extremely valuable as he was - a guy who got on base at least 300 times per season. Hall of Fame hitter. I wish players today would watch tape of how he would waste pitches by fouling them off until he got his to hit. I just felt he could have hit 15 a year without it impacting his game. Then he went off for 24 when as Johnsilver said there was some kind of pissing match. It sure seemed to prove my point that he could do it if he wanted to. I always thought he was more concerned with his numbers than winning the game. That was always the rap against Boggs but I always thought it was BS. I remember him with a tear streaming down his cheek when the Sox lost Game 7 in 1986. Doubt it was because he only hit .260 or whatever in the Series. The guy cared if they won or lost. I remembered him shouting "Believe" with his arms raised when the Sox eeked out the division title in 1990 after they had clinched against the White Sox. The biggest reason Boggs was "selfish" was because he didn't have Manny and Ortiz batting behind him to knock him in. Rice and Evans were really good offensive players, but at that point not in the realm that Ortiz and Manny were or else Boggs would have routinely scored 130 runs per game. He was constantly on base giving his team a chance to score runs and he played an excellent 3b. It's totally stupid that the Sox haven't retired his #26 yet. |
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 15, 2014 1:19:58 GMT -5
Yeah. Boggs could flick his wrists and hit the ball off the wall. Yaz only really started hitting them that way after he hurt his wrist regularly, but Boggs was a master of using it.
We can all lay the blame (partially) once again on Gorman for Boggs number not being retired, he was the one who thought he was done for after just 1 nothing short of great season. Why I always hammer on Gorman. Nice guy? Lou was that, but one lousy GM. Still find it hard to believe people give Duquette so much grief with the inepts he followed up in Sullivan and Gorman, who between them neither should have ever ran an A ball team.
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Post by terriblehondo on Jun 15, 2014 7:56:37 GMT -5
My point being that a guy who can drive the ball and does not is making a choice not to. I have no problems with getting on base for the other guy. But there are times when a hitter should look to drive the ball if he is capable of it. Boggs could and chose not to. Boggs never did except for that one year. That was not so they could win more games that was so he could get paid. He did not swing once on a hit and run and the runner was toast. Why? Because he said he never swung at the first pitch. That pisses me off. Neither one of us is going to change their opinions. He is a Hall of Fame hitter that I felt had even more to offer to the team.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 15, 2014 8:43:00 GMT -5
My memory is failing me again here..
Wasn't it Jim Rice also that would almost never swing at the 1st pitch? It was one of the SS players from the 70's-80's.
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Post by larrycook on Jun 15, 2014 10:18:22 GMT -5
My memory is failing me again here.. Wasn't it Jim Rice also that would almost never swing at the 1st pitch? It was one of the SS players from the 70's-80's. Legend has it that Jim Rice had incredibly strong wrists and could drive a golf ball 400 yards. |
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 15, 2014 12:03:33 GMT -5
Rice did super human things with the bat. i remember check swings, where he would stop the swing and snap the bat. Only player ever recall that, other than Schmidt.
Rice was so incredibly strong and like you said.. The wrists, he could clear out the hardest FB inside before around 83-4, when he started losing it fast.
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