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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 11, 2014 18:47:21 GMT -5
Jim Callis ?@jimcallismlb 1m1 minute ago The @astros are trading Rule 5 pick Jason Garcia to the @orioles. So Jason Garcia isn't coming back then. Duquette makes it a point to keep his Rule Five picks, even now. They got Almanzar back from him just last year. Only reason they didn't get him back sooner is that he was hurt. I'm not surprised he was selected. I'll be very surprised if he sticks.
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Post by jmei on Dec 11, 2014 18:49:30 GMT -5
It's just really tough to carry a guy like Garcia on a team with legitimate playoff aspirations. I fully expect him to be returned.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 12, 2014 0:20:19 GMT -5
Basically, BOS lost one A-ball flamethrower and picked another. Major league portion is done. No other Red Sox picks or players selected. Edit: they are trading Gustave, per Speier. If they traded Gustave to the Royals, who are the Sox getting in return?
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sdl
Rookie
Who the hell is Stan Papi?
Posts: 135
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Post by sdl on Dec 12, 2014 1:53:48 GMT -5
Draft is starting now. Keep in mind that CHC owes BOS a PTBNL after the draft concludes (Doubront trade). Think Theo could give us Lester? Seriously, don't look for Theo to give us anybody halfway decent.
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sdl
Rookie
Who the hell is Stan Papi?
Posts: 135
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Post by sdl on Dec 12, 2014 1:55:24 GMT -5
Basically, BOS lost one A-ball flamethrower and picked another. Major league portion is done. No other Red Sox picks or players selected. Edit: they are trading Gustave, per Speier. If they traded Gustave to the Royals, who are the Sox getting in return? Nobody...Transactions page says it's a cash deal.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 12, 2014 3:38:17 GMT -5
Draft is starting now. Keep in mind that CHC owes BOS a PTBNL after the draft concludes (Doubront trade). Think Theo could give us Lester? Seriously, don't look for Theo to give us anybody halfway decent. Surprised that hasn't happened yet. Also surprised that Kurcz made it through the draft. I was watching this summer on his first night back from Tommy John. He was sitting (not hitting) 98. Every other appearance, he toned it down to 94. I'm speculating it was intentional because of the TJ and looking forward to a return to his previous dominance.. Here's from a Cubbie site: Speaking of which, here are some of the Cubs’ notable unprotected players, who are eligible for the Rule 5 Draft today (and from which I’m taking a guess that the Red Sox will ultimately choose, once the draft is complete): Gioskar Amaya, INF John Andreoli, OF Jeffrey Baez, OF Zach Cates, RHP Hunter Cervenka, LHP Pin-Chieh Chen, OF Gerardo Concepcion, LHP Willson Contreras, C Wes Darvill, INF Dustin Geiger, INF Jae-Hoon Ha, OF Marco Hernandez, INF Matt Loosen, RHP Dillon Maples, RHP Andrew McKirahan, LHP Carlos Penalver, INF Felix Pena, RHP Ivan Pineyro, RHP Rock Shoulders, 1B Rubi Silva, OF Yao-Lin Wang, RHP Ben Wells, RHP Tony Zych, RHP www.bleachernation.com/2014/12/11/the-rule-5-draft-is-today-and-the-cubs-could-get-and-lose-a-ptbnl/Rock Shoulders ? Gotta have him..... Not sure if I want any part of Yao-Lin Wang though.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 12, 2014 9:52:39 GMT -5
Think Theo could give us Lester? Seriously, don't look for Theo to give us anybody halfway decent. Surprised that hasn't happened yet. Also surprised that Kurcz made it through the draft. I was watching this summer on his first night back from Tommy John. He was sitting (not hitting) 98. Every other appearance, he toned it down to 94. I'm speculating it was intentional because of the TJ and looking forward to a return to his previous dominance.. Here's from a Cubbie site: Speaking of which, here are some of the Cubs’ notable unprotected players, who are eligible for the Rule 5 Draft today (and from which I’m taking a guess that the Red Sox will ultimately choose, once the draft is complete): Gioskar Amaya, INF John Andreoli, OF Jeffrey Baez, OF Zach Cates, RHP Hunter Cervenka, LHP Pin-Chieh Chen, OF Gerardo Concepcion, LHP Willson Contreras, C Wes Darvill, INF Dustin Geiger, INF Jae-Hoon Ha, OF Marco Hernandez, INF Matt Loosen, RHP Dillon Maples, RHP Andrew McKirahan, LHP Carlos Penalver, INF Felix Pena, RHP Ivan Pineyro, RHP Rock Shoulders, 1B Rubi Silva, OF Yao-Lin Wang, RHP Ben Wells, RHP Tony Zych, RHP www.bleachernation.com/2014/12/11/the-rule-5-draft-is-today-and-the-cubs-could-get-and-lose-a-ptbnl/Rock Shoulders ? Gotta have him..... Not sure if I want any part of Yao-Lin Wang though. 1) I think Theo and Ben had bigger fish to fry than worry about this yet is all. It'll happen. It's like when everyone was worried about the Theo comp players and both teams were like "seriously, it's not important." 2) FWIW, Shoulders was taken in minor league Rule 5 by the Rangers.
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Post by iakovos11 on Dec 12, 2014 11:13:50 GMT -5
Draft is starting now. Keep in mind that CHC owes BOS a PTBNL after the draft concludes (Doubront trade). Think Theo could give us Lester? Seriously, don't look for Theo to give us anybody halfway decent. It's not going to be Theo's choice. They agreed on 2-3 players or a group of players at the time, depending on the Rule 5 draft outcome.
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Post by sibbysisti on Dec 12, 2014 11:51:19 GMT -5
Too bad Rock Shoulders wasn't selected by the Oakland A's. They could then brag to being Head and Shoulders above the competition. I see old friend Hunter Cervenka on the list. Anyone stand out as a possible Sox selection?
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Post by jmei on Jan 25, 2015 10:30:35 GMT -5
There's a really interesting story about Jason Garcia in this week's Fangraphs prospect podcast with Kiley McDaniel: www.fangraphs.com/blogs/fangraphs-audio-the-consummate-kiley-mcdaniel/The relevant discussion begins around 51:30 and references Garcia's writeup in the top Orioles prospects list, which you can read here. Here's the crux of the anecdote, from that Orioles list: One quibble: the reason the Red Sox didn't protect him is not just to save a 40-man spot for Dan Butler. If they had added Garcia, he would have started burning option years as a 22-year-old in Salem, which would have likely put him in the Drake Britton/Eduardo Escobar zone of being in danger of being out-of-options before he's really ready for the majors. That's another disadvantage to protecting him at such a low level of experience. Nonetheless, the front office took a chance by not protecting an interesting popup guy, and there's at least a pretty good chance that they lose him because of it. I'd still guess that it's more likely than not that he gets returned to the Red Sox (striking out guys in instructs is not the same as facing major league hitters, and Garcia is likely to have significant command issues), but after listening/reading to this anecdote, I'm a good bit more worried that he manages to stick with Baltimore.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 25, 2015 11:06:54 GMT -5
Huh, that's kind of interesting, although it's interesting to me only for the fact of why the O's felt comfortable taking him.
For what it's worth, a little context: Garcia should have been blowing hitters away in Instructs. He's a guy who pitched an entire season in Greenville in 2012—so, barring TJ, he'd at least have been in Salem by now—facing hitters who are mostly in Short-Season and below. Even Sisco, who was in the Sally this year, is just 19.
I'm not really worried any more about him sticking after reading this. I mean, great, he looked good in Instructs, but he wasn't exactly burning through the Sally this year. He was striking out a batter an inning but he was also walking one every other inning.
I agree with jmei's point about options. There's probably a good chance that Garcia blows through the minors if he figures out his control, but he also might not. Look at Miguel Celestino, who can dial it up similarly and still hasn't made it to the majors.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Jan 25, 2015 13:50:06 GMT -5
A question comes to mind concerning Garcia and hard-throwing pitchers like him. Do the real hard throwers have a harder time developing command and control? I suspect many do. It might be interesting to look at the minor league stats of some major leaguers known for their fastballs.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 25, 2015 14:01:17 GMT -5
I think it's more a function of the fact that developing control is hard to do for anyone, but the harder someone throws the more opportunities he'll get to figure it out.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jan 25, 2015 14:35:25 GMT -5
If the Red Sox had added he was almost sure to be DFA'd at some point in the off season due to all the moves were working on, and then executed.
What I find more is wether the Red Sox gonna be more careful who they pitch at the O's place.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 25, 2015 15:25:20 GMT -5
If the Red Sox had added he was almost sure to be DFA'd at some point in the off season due to all the moves were working on, and then executed. What I find more is wether the Red Sox gonna be more careful who they pitch at the O's place. Wondered something similar. Thing is, not often you'll have a R5 guy at the complex. BTW, jmei, I know you know most of what I was saying above. Was responding to all, not just you.
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Post by jmei on Jan 25, 2015 16:31:34 GMT -5
The precise set of circumstances here are very unusual. It'd have to be a Rule 5 eligible guy pitching in instructs who the industry hasn't seen a lot of. It might happen once every few years with a TJ guy, but even then, it's rare that a guy just gains a couple tics of velo at instructs that he didn't have during the season.
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Post by soxcentral on Jan 25, 2015 16:48:41 GMT -5
If the Red Sox had added he was almost sure to be DFA'd at some point in the off season due to all the moves were working on, and then executed. Seems a bit harsh, no?
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Post by iakovos11 on Jan 25, 2015 19:47:03 GMT -5
If the Red Sox had added he was almost sure to be DFA'd at some point in the off season due to all the moves were working on, and then executed. Seems a bit harsh, no? Brilliant
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