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Post by nexus on Jul 14, 2015 8:33:13 GMT -5
Sequencing, mixing pitches and speeds, hitting spots, that all plays into it. Again, from the few times I've watched him, Johnson has that approach. Let's see how it plays in the ML. This will define Johnson's career. If he comes into the league with solid-average command, I think the 03-06 version of Cliff Lee is a fair comp - a valuable backend starter. Cliff Lee became CLIFF LEE when he developed plus plus command. Average raw stuff and no outpitch, but smart, methodical, and could work side-to-side/front-to-back with ease.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 14, 2015 9:03:55 GMT -5
I'll be happy if he can be serviceable and eat some innings.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 14, 2015 9:35:01 GMT -5
Sequencing, mixing pitches and speeds, hitting spots, that all plays into it. Again, from the few times I've watched him, Johnson has that approach. Let's see how it plays in the ML. This will define Johnson's career. If he comes into the league with solid-average command, I think the 03-06 version of Cliff Lee is a fair comp - a valuable backend starter. Cliff Lee became CLIFF LEE when he developed plus plus command. Average raw stuff and no outpitch, but smart, methodical, and could work side-to-side/front-to-back with ease. Oh yeah total junkballer.
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Post by soxfanatic on Jul 14, 2015 9:46:40 GMT -5
This will define Johnson's career. If he comes into the league with solid-average command, I think the 03-06 version of Cliff Lee is a fair comp - a valuable backend starter. Cliff Lee became CLIFF LEE when he developed plus plus command. Average raw stuff and no outpitch, but smart, methodical, and could work side-to-side/front-to-back with ease. Oh yeah total junkballer. That's not Cliff Lee?
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Post by jmei on Jul 14, 2015 9:51:15 GMT -5
I think comps aren't the most useful analytical tools, but the guys who come to mind as 90-91 lefties with multiple pitches (but no standout), above-average command, and are not extreme ground- or fly-ball guys are Alex Wood and John Danks.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 14, 2015 10:10:56 GMT -5
I think comps aren't the most useful analytical tools, but the guys who come to mind as 90-91 lefties with multiple pitches (but no standout), above-average command, and are not extreme ground- or fly-ball guys are Alex Wood and John Danks. I'd just as soon have a shutdown pen arm (if he can be that, as the scout suggested) than either of those guys - especially with some of the depth the Sox have in 3-4-5 rotation guys. The pen is still an issue.
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 14, 2015 10:18:50 GMT -5
Greg Maddox did pretty well almost never throwing anything faster than about 91. .... 1. Greg Maddux threw harder than 91 when he came up. 2. Greg Maddux had three seasons with over 220 innings and fewer than 30 walks and over 170 strikeouts. The rest of the pitchers in baseball history have three such seasons combined. Two by Cy Young, one by Roy Halladay. 3. Greg Maddux threw a changeup that went sideways and it might not have been his best pitch. 4. Greg Maddux grew up to be Greg Maddux, which is an unrealistic comparison for any other human being. After I posted that, I looked at it and thought, there's something wrong with it. Maybe more than one thing, but definitely something. As to the content, I didn't mean to imply he didn't have dirty stuff. But it was his command that made it so incredible. I'm not saying that Johnson is Maddux, but that the stuff he has may play up because of his command.
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Post by jmei on Jul 14, 2015 10:20:20 GMT -5
Don't let short-term need lead you astray. Alex Wood has averaged 3.6 fWAR per 200 IP over his career, and John Danks is at 2.2 fWAR/200 IP. I would much, much rather have either of those than a good bullpen arm.
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 14, 2015 10:21:45 GMT -5
The two really good RPs out there who seem to be continually mentioned as likely to be traded are Papelbon and Chapman. I'm not proposing a specific deal, or even, necessarily, either of these two, but these are the kind of arms the Sox need in the BP.
I posted this before seeing the post above. I concur that the starting pitching needs to be fixed first, but not to the exclusion of redoing the bullpen. It needs a major makeover.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 15, 2015 23:28:50 GMT -5
Oh yeah total junkballer. That's not Cliff Lee? I blame Google image search plus also my dumb worthless brain.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 16, 2015 0:47:42 GMT -5
Sequencing, mixing pitches and speeds, hitting spots, that all plays into it. Again, from the few times I've watched him, Johnson has that approach. Let's see how it plays in the ML. This will define Johnson's career. If he comes into the league with solid-average command, I think the 03-06 version of Cliff Lee is a fair comp - a valuable backend starter. Cliff Lee became CLIFF LEE when he developed plus plus command. Average raw stuff and no outpitch, but smart, methodical, and could work side-to-side/front-to-back with ease. I think that what determines the overall success of any guy like Johnson is actually start-to-start consistency. We already know that he is capable, on a good day, of painting the corners beautifully. We also know that, like any pitchers, he'll have days when he doesn't have the fine command. He's a guy who will get hit much harder than the average pitcher when he doesn't have his fine command. If he can go through a typical season and only have a few off-starts, he can have Buehrle's career. If his command is off every third or fourth start, he'll struggle to stay in a good MLB rotation. And obviously, every point between those is a possible outcome. One take-home lesson from this is that the early evaluation is going to be less reliable than it is for most pitchers. We may well need a much larger sample size than his first handful of starts to determine how good he'll be in the long run. So a heads-up right now: we should all defer making quick judgments. He might have subpar command in two of his first three starts and then reel off four or five good ones in a row ... or do the opposite. In which case he'll be better and worse, respectively, then he seems at first. Obviously, this is true of all pitchers, just more so with a guy like him.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 16, 2015 7:40:37 GMT -5
This will define Johnson's career. If he comes into the league with solid-average command, I think the 03-06 version of Cliff Lee is a fair comp - a valuable backend starter. Cliff Lee became CLIFF LEE when he developed plus plus command. Average raw stuff and no outpitch, but smart, methodical, and could work side-to-side/front-to-back with ease. I think that what determines the overall success of any guy like Johnson is actually start-to-start consistency. We already know that he is capable, on a good day, of painting the corners beautifully. We also know that, like any pitchers, he'll have days when he doesn't have the fine command. He's a guy who will get hit much harder than the average pitcher when he doesn't have his fine command. If he can go through a typical season and only have a few off-starts, he can have Buehrle's career. If his command is off every third or fourth start, he'll struggle to stay in a good MLB rotation. And obviously, every point between those is a possible outcome. One take-home lesson from this is that the early evaluation is going to be less reliable than it is for most pitchers. We may well need a much larger sample size than his first handful of starts to determine how good he'll be in the long run. So a heads-up right now: we should all defer making quick judgments. He might have subpar command in two of his first three starts and then reel off four or five good ones in a row ... or do the opposite. In which case he'll be better and worse, respectively, then he seems at first. Obviously, this is true of all pitchers, just more so with a guy like him. That should work out well for Red Sox fans who were ready to waive Buchholz in April.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 3, 2015 17:57:38 GMT -5
Alex Speier @alexspeier 1m1 minute ago Brian Johnson will be placed on DL due to elbow tightness. Evaluation coming today/tomorrow. Left Sunday's game after 4 IP, 60 pitches
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Post by quintanariffic on Aug 3, 2015 18:00:40 GMT -5
Ruh roh, Raggy.
Speier reporting that Johnson was pulled form his start due to elbow tightness, and by implication not to rest him for an impending ML start.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Aug 3, 2015 18:17:21 GMT -5
2015: Please go away!
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 3, 2015 18:24:39 GMT -5
Ok. You win, 2015.
With he and Porcello on the DL now, we may be stretching Barnes out because we need him as SP/LR depth.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Aug 3, 2015 18:32:32 GMT -5
Next comes the team doctor's insisting it's just precautionry, then 2 weeks later we hear he's going to see Dr Andrew's for a "2nd opinion, just to make sure", then we finally find out something is seriously wrong? Is that how it all plays out?
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Aug 3, 2015 19:08:08 GMT -5
Next comes the team doctor's insisting it's just precautionry, then 2 weeks later we hear he's going to see Dr Andrew's for a "2nd opinion, just to make sure", then we finally find out something is seriously wrong? Is that how it all plays out? You just forgot the PRP injection in between.
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Aug 4, 2015 10:15:48 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 4, 2015 13:32:23 GMT -5
Ok. You win, 2015. With he and Porcello on the DL now, we may be stretching Barnes out because we need him as SP/LR depth. I don't think you're wrong necessarily that they could be related, but in a different way than that. We discuss this on the podcast which will go up tonight (hopefully), but while they certainly could be related, based on what they've typically done since I've followed the system, it would be less that Pawtucket needs him currently and more that if Johnson is sidelined, that might be more of an opportunity for Barnes to get a look for a rotation spot next year. I note that with Wilkerson getting promoted to Portland today, Cuevas seems like he may be going up to Pawtucket. That fills one rotation spot. Add that Jess Todd was apparently bumped from the rotation so Barnes could start, and it fits the typical narrative that they won't jerk a legit (graduated) prospect around just because of roster needs in the minors. If it were need, they'd take someone like Robby Scott and ask him to start, like they did already with Spruill and Todd who are more fungible.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 4, 2015 13:48:12 GMT -5
Nothing going right for AC-DC this year! First their drummer gets indicted and now this!
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 4, 2015 16:18:32 GMT -5
Alex Speier @alexspeier 23m23 minutes ago Farrell says Brian Johnson experienced elbow irritation in the ulnar nerve area. Not yet know how long he'll be shut down from throwing.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 4, 2015 16:19:34 GMT -5
Next article - a visit to Dr. Andrews.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 4, 2015 16:27:52 GMT -5
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Post by jdb on Aug 4, 2015 19:06:52 GMT -5
Speier tweet
Right now, the Red Sox remain confident that Brian Johnson's injury can be treated conservatively. Return to games in 2015 not ruled out.
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