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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 12, 2012 14:59:39 GMT -5
The Sox need a young defensive minded catcher who can handle the bat a little, too bad we don't have a guy in the system like Tim Federowicz. Question for you: what would you consider Christian Vazquez?
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Post by mredsox89 on Oct 12, 2012 15:58:35 GMT -5
One issue that they would have if they went to a defensive minded catcher would be a complete lack of offense from SS and C, likely batting 8/9 or 7/9 in your order. That's not to mention right now a complete ? in the OF, and in the rotation. Catcher could end up being a question, but I don't think it is one right now. You have a guy in Lavarnway who by all accounts will hit if given the opportunity, and another guy in Salty that can hit for power, but has struggled to put it all together
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,823
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Post by steveofbradenton on Nov 10, 2012 12:04:22 GMT -5
Its a start! Signing David Ross is a start to recognizing that the defensive side is very important for our future success.
I've always liked Salty, but he will never be a good defensive catcher or pitch caller. I know he hits better from the left side, but I would rather Lavarnway stays and catches half the games.
I bet, secretly, the starters are pleased that we are bringing in a catcher who can handle a staff and throw runners out.
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Post by dmaineah on Nov 12, 2012 8:37:09 GMT -5
Its a start! Signing David Ross is a start to recognizing that the defensive side is very important for our future success. I've always liked Salty, but he will never be a good defensive catcher or pitch caller. I know he hits better from the left side, but I would rather Lavarnway stays and catches half the games. I bet, secretly, the starters are pleased that we are bringing in a catcher who can handle a staff and throw runners out. Lavarnway may not be as ready or as good defensively as you think. www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/olney-on-dbacks-rays-rangers-drew-red-sox.html While many expect the Red Sox to deal Jarrod Saltalamacchia and give an increased role to Ryan Lavarnway, some rival evaluators have serious questions about whether he can be a catcher at the major league level. One remarked that he has never seen a catcher with actions as slow as Lavarnway with another noting that "everything has to be perfect" for him to throw a runner out.
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Post by elguapo on Nov 12, 2012 9:09:27 GMT -5
Mike Piazza and Mike Napoli are good examples of catchers who weren't good enough to be behind the plate. But somehow they caught a lot of games. Todd Pratt, maybe. If Lavarnway hits, he'll be a valuable catcher -- or a Scott Hatteberg type 1b-C-DH.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 12, 2012 11:23:23 GMT -5
With the rumors that the Sox are in the market for Napoli still to play first base, I wonder if there's room on a roster for both Lavarnway, who can only catch, and Napoli, who would likely be the primary first baseman but catch 50-70 games. I don't see how that'd work.
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Post by iakovos11 on Nov 12, 2012 11:29:20 GMT -5
Actually, Chris, I was thinking it would be perfect. They plan for Napoli to play 1B, and Ross and Lavarnway to split catching duties. With Napoli they can feel more comfortable (theoretically) PH for the C late in the game. They also have someone who can catch a few games here and there to give both Ross and Lavarnway a breather. Plus, if Lavarnway continues to struggle, they already have a ML ready C on the roster without having to resort to Butler or CVaz. I think they would have an easier time filling the 1B role with Sands/Gomez/etc. I think that positional flexibility might help them.
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Post by bighead on Nov 12, 2012 12:26:30 GMT -5
With the rumors that the Sox are in the market for Napoli still to play first base, I wonder if there's room on a roster for both Lavarnway, who can only catch, and Napoli, who would likely be the primary first baseman but catch 50-70 games. I don't see how that'd work. I'm not sure if this adds anything to the conversation but this part of Bradford's Napoli article is crazy: Napoli has compiled the second-best OPS (1.075) of any opposing player with a minimum of 125 at-bats against the Sox … ever -- second only to Babe Ruth. But while that might not be a drawing card, his 1.107 OPS at Fenway Park should be. Nothing to back this up but it seems that historically when the Sox sign a Sox killer the player ends up disappointing.
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Post by jmei on Nov 12, 2012 12:30:28 GMT -5
I think Ross, Lavarnway, and Napoli can easily coexist in a lineup. If the Red Sox sign Napoli, I think he will almost certainly play the vast majority of games at 1B and may only be behind the plate for 20-30 games at most (and many of those will be interleague road games where Ortiz starts at 1B). I'm not sure why you think Napoli will catch 50-70 games-- all the media reports seem to indicate that the Red Sox want him as a 1B and I think the signing of Ross indicates that the FO is committed to having a strong defender/pitch-caller behind the plate, which is one area Napoli has a terrible reputation (although much of that is on Scoscia).There will also be occasional ABs at DH (especially against tough lefties) and ample pinch-hitting opportunities.
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Post by remember04 on Nov 12, 2012 12:50:28 GMT -5
I think Ross, Lavarnway, and Napoli can easily coexist in a lineup. If the Red Sox sign Napoli, I think he will almost certainly play the vast majority of games at 1B and may only be behind the plate for 20-30 games at most (and many of those will be interleague road games where Ortiz starts at 1B). I'm not sure why you think Napoli will catch 50-70 games-- all the media reports seem to indicate that the Red Sox want him as a 1B and I think the signing of Ross indicates that the FO is committed to having a strong defender/pitch-caller behind the plate, which is one area Napoli has a terrible reputation (although much of that is on Scoscia).There will also be occasional ABs at DH (especially against tough lefties) and ample pinch-hitting opportunities. I agree with most of this but I prefer to have Salty instead of Lavarnway in the three way split as I still believe Lavarnway has a chance to make inprovements behind the plate and getting limited playing time back there although at the major league level might hurt his development. Depending on what percentage of games Lavarnway would be catching at the major league level I'd rather him start more at AAA.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 12, 2012 13:01:26 GMT -5
I think Ross, Lavarnway, and Napoli can easily coexist in a lineup. If the Red Sox sign Napoli, I think he will almost certainly play the vast majority of games at 1B and may only be behind the plate for 20-30 games at most (and many of those will be interleague road games where Ortiz starts at 1B). I'm not sure why you think Napoli will catch 50-70 games-- all the media reports seem to indicate that the Red Sox want him as a 1B and I think the signing of Ross indicates that the FO is committed to having a strong defender/pitch-caller behind the plate, which is one area Napoli has a terrible reputation (although much of that is on Scoscia).There will also be occasional ABs at DH (especially against tough lefties) and ample pinch-hitting opportunities. A quick note with some numbers. Napoli has averaged about 119 games over the last four years. Ross has averaged about 60. I don't think it's reasonable to expect Ross to play 100 games behind the plate, so I think there's room for Napoli to squeeze in games at catcher but I agree - it won't be 50-70. I don't think he'd hold up. My preference would be to see him at first for the bulk of his playing time because of the big stick, but even then there's the issue of durability. I think the questions aren't at catcher so much as they are at first base. It's unfortunate that Lavarnway doesn't have that skillset, otherwise this would be perfect.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 12, 2012 13:02:52 GMT -5
I agree with most of this but I prefer to have Salty instead of Lavarnway in the three way split as I still believe Lavarnway has a chance to make inprovements behind the plate and getting limited playing time back there although at the major league level might hurt his development. Depending on what percentage of games Lavarnway would be catching at the major league level I'd rather him start more at AAA. Given Lavarnway's size and how gassed he looked in September, I think limiting his time behind the plate might yield better results (including on defense) than continuing to try to develop him into a full-time starter.
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Post by jmei on Nov 12, 2012 13:22:49 GMT -5
My idea breakdown of PT might be something to the effect of 80 games at catcher for Ross, 60 for Saltalamacchia or Lavarnway, and 20 for Napoli. If injuries occur, the other two (or Dan Butler) can fill the void.
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Post by elguapo on Nov 12, 2012 13:41:35 GMT -5
My idea breakdown of PT might be something to the effect of 80 games at catcher for Ross, 60 for Saltalamacchia or Lavarnway, and 20 for Napoli. If injuries occur, the other two (or Dan Butler) can fill the void. Or Vazquez. And DH has to be in the equation as well. Anyone think Papi will play 162, or even 150?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 12, 2012 15:58:10 GMT -5
How often do you see a player at first base (or otherwise) take 20 starts at catcher? There's so much off-the-field prep that goes into catching that unless you're going to make a significant amount of starts back there, it doesn't make sense to do it. Mike Napoli has to learn how to call a game for a dozen pitchers just so he can make 20 starts at catcher? That doesn't seem like something he would want to do or the team would want him to do for that matter.
Doesn't seem like teams ever actually do this.
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Post by elguapo on Nov 12, 2012 16:34:29 GMT -5
How often do you see a player at first base (or otherwise) take 20 starts at catcher? How often do you see a catcher who can hit enough to play 1B or DH? VMart 2011 is an example - caught 26 games, mostly DH the rest. Mike Stanley '97. Of course as a practical matter it doesn't usually make sense. Napoli's probably figuring (correctly, I think) that if he signs on as a 1b, his catching days are over for good and his future earning potential rests entirely on his bat. So rationally he would demand a higher salary to go that route.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 12, 2012 16:51:47 GMT -5
I think he'd sign as pure first baseman before he'd sign as a 1B/third catcher. That roll has every possible downside for him.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 12, 2012 22:13:06 GMT -5
I think he'd sign as pure first baseman before he'd sign as a 1B/third catcher. That roll has every possible downside for him. How would more defensive versatility be "every possible downside?"
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 13, 2012 1:58:40 GMT -5
The Sox need a young defensive minded catcher who can handle the bat a little, too bad we don't have a guy in the system like Tim Federowicz. Question for you: what would you consider Christian Vazquez? Beat me to it. Those of you who've been visiting for a while know I'm not a big fan of numerical rankings. Right now Vasquez is exhibit A for that sentiment. I think that he's a tremendous asset given his age, defensive skilset, his plate discipline and the emerging pop. Hard to put a value on all that but to me, given the scarcity at the position, his ceiling is only slightly less than the guys at the top of the list.
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Post by welovewally on Nov 13, 2012 5:03:04 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of signing Napoli but I have to wonder if having Napoli play 1B with Salty & Ross as the Catchers & Lavarnway in AAA sets the team up in the best position going forward both in terms of roster depth & trade value. It just might be a very good move. I don't think there has to be a big rush to move Salty or Lavarnway right now. It just might be the best move is to sign Napoli, keep them all & see which of the 4 brings the best value at a later date.
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