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2014 Trade Deadline Thread - Discussion Only
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 29, 2014 11:40:08 GMT -5
I'd ask for Norris and Barreto from Toronto. Not enough. That's the 4th and 8th prospect from a system that was rated 24th overall. I do like Barreto though.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 29, 2014 11:41:55 GMT -5
And we think the Sox are going to sit on the $100m they have coming off the payroll because....
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Post by soxfanatic on Jul 29, 2014 11:44:56 GMT -5
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Post by Steve Henley on Jul 29, 2014 11:46:03 GMT -5
I certainly understand this position. Uehara is clearly one of the best closers in baseball and if they want to compete next year they obviously need a closer. However, Uehara is going to be 40 years old in April 2015 and doesn't have the best injury history. He's avoided the DL the past two years but there's no guarantee that's going to continue. It seems crazy not to listen to offers for him.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 29, 2014 11:48:19 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal ?@ken_Rosenthal 3m Possible dynamic in #RedSox talks: Lester, Lackey are close. Lackey may not want to play for $500K in ’15 or sign extensn if Lester is gone.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 29, 2014 11:51:32 GMT -5
My own opinion here. Out of all the players I watched during spring training, Joc Pederson was hands down the best looking prospect. If you've not watched him hit or play the outfield, do it now. That's what YouTube is for. The Sox could be looking at a future lineup that would include potential all-stars in LF, RF, and 3B, gold-glovers at SS, CF, 2B, and some combo of those awards with not ONE but TWO catchers. Vazquez already looks like the best defensive backstop to come along in quite a while. All that is before we get to the ridiculous number of potential starters, talk about a jam-up. You might be able to construct two 5-man pitching rotations from what they've stockpiled at this point. I'm willing to sit back and see how this all unfolds, but one thing is for certain: we're watching the creation of what might be a very competitive lineup for the long haul. While I understand the pain from the possible loss of Lester, there will still be an opportunity to bid up for his services. The question comes down to this: how many good, very good, and great players do you need to create a team that wins a lot more often than they lose? Let's bring Beane in here to discuss this... Add: ...AND I forgot the super-duper ultra-utility guy, someone who can play all the outfield and infield positions at average or better. Are you saying there's a logjam?
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 29, 2014 11:55:13 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal ?@ken_Rosenthal 3m Possible dynamic in #RedSox talks: Lester, Lackey are close. Lackey may not want to play for $500K in ’15 or sign extensn if Lester is gone. This crap drives me nuts. Lackey probably doesn't want to retire when he's pitching like a #2 either. And I'm pretty sure his career would be over after sitting out his age 37 season. It definitely wouldn't help his free agent negotiations for 2016.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 29, 2014 11:55:22 GMT -5
I'd ask for Norris and Barreto from Toronto. Not enough. That's the 4th and 8th prospect from a system that was rated 24th overall. I do like Barreto though. In what world is Norris the 4th prospect in TOR's system? If you want to use BA's top 10, Norris was #6 to start the year, Stroman has graduated and Norris has clearly passed Davis, Nay and Barreto. I could understand if Sanchez was #1 and Norris was #2 (as Sickels has it in his midseason review), but MLB and BA each has it as Norris, then Sanchez. I suggest that you review my analysis of TOR's system in the trade proposal thread (Lester thread). I cannot say that I agree much with nomar, but if I'm Ben I definitely ask for Norris and Barreto and work from there.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 29, 2014 11:59:58 GMT -5
I'd ask for Norris and Barreto from Toronto. Not enough. That's the 4th and 8th prospect from a system that was rated 24th overall. I do like Barreto though. Norris is easily their #1 now
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Post by Guidas on Jul 29, 2014 12:05:53 GMT -5
What's the difference between giving Koji a qualifying offer and trading him then offering him a 1 year contract for the amount of a qualifying offer (other than the draft pick we wouldn't get in the latter scenario if he were to sign elsewhere)? Racist alert.... I had a career which required interaction with Japanese and now I live where there are lots of Japanese immigrants. I'm convinced that no countries population feels a bigger obligation to their employers than the Japanese. Trade him and he has a new employer. . . . Scott Lauber ?@scottlauber 3m Major league source: #RedSox listening to "overpay offers" for Lester - bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/clubhouse_insider/2014/07/the_search_for_power_what_red_sox_figure_to_seek_in_a … That's not racist, that's cultural, and as someone who has spent time in Japan and interacted and worked with many Japanese, this is accurate to a point. Every individual is different - and Koji knows he is looking at the end of his career so money may win out on that particular decision (and we all know who has the most of that in the game). But the Japanese culture is still very predicated on the individual being subservient to the greater whole. In fact, many in Japan are still shocked when a player on their favorite takes a leave of absence during the season for the birth of a child (though much more encouraging and understanding if it is to mourn the loss of an immediate family member).
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 29, 2014 12:08:33 GMT -5
And we think the Sox are going to sit on the $100m they have coming off the payroll because.... Are they going to be more willing to shove out money for a front of the line starter? That wouldn't seem to me to be the case as it is always their philosophy, which I agree with, to place a number on a player and not exceed that. Unless they say hey we hit on prospects at SS, CF, C, 3B, LF and RF (Which I think saying that most would call that highly unlikely) and we have $100MM+ are they going to extend those rules? Because I don't think paying $10-$15MM on back end guys is going to help all that much.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 29, 2014 12:10:46 GMT -5
Not enough. That's the 4th and 8th prospect from a system that was rated 24th overall. I do like Barreto though. In what world is Norris the 4th prospect in TOR's system? If you want to use BA's top 10, Norris was #6 to start the year, Stroman has graduated and Norris has clearly passed Davis, Nay and Barreto. I could understand if Sanchez was #1 and Norris was #2 (as Sickels has it in his midseason review), but MLB and BA each has it as Norris, then Sanchez. I suggest that you review my analysis of TOR's system in the trade proposal thread (Lester thread). I cannot say that I agree much with nomar, but if I'm Ben I definitely ask for Norris and Barreto and work from there. Keith Law top 100 rankings before the start of the 2014 season. I see he is now ranked number one in the system. I understand you have to take the best offer, but i'm really hoping the best offer includes a position player as the top prospect. We already have so much good young pitching.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 29, 2014 12:12:27 GMT -5
I would rather move the 2015 payroll conversation to another thread and stick to the trade deadline. Once (if) the trades occur, I expect we will have a vigorous conversation about the direction of the Red Sox in 2015 and beyond. However, let's spend the next 51 hours focused on trades.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 29, 2014 12:16:44 GMT -5
Keith Law top 100 rankings before the start of the 2014 season. I see he is now ranked number one in the system. I understand you have to take the best offer, but i'm really hoping the best offer includes a position player as the top prospect. We already have so much good young pitching. I hear you on pre-season but in the here and now, Norris is easily an A-/B+ prospect and in the group of players we can hope to obtain in a Lester trade. BTW, I agree philosophically that (all things being equal) the Red Sox should seek to acquire a position player for Lester, due to (1) need, (2) relative scarcity in baseball and (3) relative scarcity in the organization. At the end of the day, however, I want the best package of assets in trade. I have put more detailed thoughts on various organizations' prospects, and what I hope to obtain (Seager-LAD, Peterson-SEA, Dozier-KC, Norris&Barreto-TOR), in the Lester trade proposal thread. TOR's system is pitching-heavy up top; they do not have a top 50 overall position player prospect, although Dalton Pompey is coming on strong.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 29, 2014 12:18:59 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal ?@ken_Rosenthal 3m Possible dynamic in #RedSox talks: Lester, Lackey are close. Lackey may not want to play for $500K in ’15 or sign extensn if Lester is gone. So, you're telling me that Rosenthal makes his living explaining stuff that posters on this board have been discussing for a few months? Now I understand... I think...
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 29, 2014 12:19:10 GMT -5
I believe Lackey's 10/5 rights kick in next year as well.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 29, 2014 12:20:00 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal ?@ken_Rosenthal 3m Possible dynamic in #RedSox talks: Lester, Lackey are close. Lackey may not want to play for $500K in ’15 or sign extensn if Lester is gone. So, you're telling me that Rosenthal makes his living explaining stuff that posters on this board have been discussing for a few months? Now I understand... I think... My response: Wags ?@wags721 8m @ken_Rosenthal This is the kind of Tweet that becomes a "fact" that gets repeated over and over again.
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Post by jdb on Jul 29, 2014 12:26:23 GMT -5
Fwiw in Laws mid season ranking Norris was #37 with Bundy at 12 and Harvey at 13. Others include Glasnow at 20, Bell 29, Pederson 22, Seager 5, Urias 17, Taillon 38, Meadow 40. insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/11223667/mlb-keith-law-top-50-mlb-prospects37. Daniel Norris, LHP | Toronto Blue Jays Age: 21 | Current Level: Double-A (New Hampshire) Preseason Ranking: N/A Norris has passed Aaron Sanchez as the Jays' top pitching prospect, thanks to some substantial delivery cleanup that has him more on line to the plate and better able to repeat his still-long arm action. He'll show three above-average pitches, all of which he does a good job of throwing for strikes, and a potential major league out pitch in his slider. He's a long way from having average command, but at this time last year it was unthinkable that he'd improve enough to get a Futures Game appearance and a quick promotion to Double-A.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 29, 2014 12:31:42 GMT -5
His control must really be a mess if he has three plus pitches and that's where he ranks.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 29, 2014 12:34:26 GMT -5
His control must really be a mess if he has three plus pitches and that's where he ranks. Isn't that almost always the case for young pitchers with great stuff?
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 29, 2014 12:35:15 GMT -5
Keith Law top 100 rankings before the start of the 2014 season. I see he is now ranked number one in the system. I understand you have to take the best offer, but i'm really hoping the best offer includes a position player as the top prospect. We already have so much good young pitching. I hear you on pre-season but in the here and now, Norris is easily an A-/B+ prospect and in the group of players we can hope to obtain in a Lester trade. BTW, I agree philosophically that (all things being equal) the Red Sox should seek to acquire a position player for Lester, due to (1) need, (2) relative scarcity in baseball and (3) relative scarcity in the organization. At the end of the day, however, I want the best package of assets in trade. I have put more detailed thoughts on various organizations' prospects, and what I hope to obtain (Seager-LAD, Peterson-SEA, Dozier-KC, Norris&Barreto-TOR), in the Lester trade proposal thread. TOR's system is pitching-heavy up top; they do not have a top 50 overall position player prospect, although Dalton Pompey is coming on strong. I know it's a stretch but I think it's fair to let Mondesi enter the conversation with KC (edit: obviously talking Lester not Miller). Ultra talented, just not giving you on paper results (underdeveloped frame and extremely young).
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Post by Guidas on Jul 29, 2014 12:40:24 GMT -5
No, not at all: Urias 60 control Syndergaard 60 control Bundy 60 control Heany 60 control Stephenson 55 control Gray 55 control mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2014/#list=prospectsNorris is listed as a 45 control. Worse than Owens or Webster. That's nearly "Maybe hits the barn door on occasion" territory."
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Post by joshv02 on Jul 29, 2014 12:45:21 GMT -5
Racist alert.... I had a career which required interaction with Japanese and now I live where there are lots of Japanese immigrants. I'm convinced that no countries population feels a bigger obligation to their employers than the Japanese. Trade him and he has a new employer. That's not racist, that's cultural, and as someone who has spent time in Japan and interacted and worked with many Japanese, this is accurate to a point. Every individual is different - and Koji knows he is looking at the end of his career so money may win out on that particular decision (and we all know who has the most of that in the game). But the Japanese culture is still very predicated on the individual being subservient to the greater whole. In fact, many in Japan are still shocked when a player on their favorite takes a leave of absence during the season for the birth of a child (though much more encouraging and understanding if it is to mourn the loss of an immediate family member). On the other hand, Koji was traded to Texas, played out his contract, then signed with another team. Not sure how that fits into the cultural simplification, but it seems to me he'd sign with whomever gave him the best deal (assuming family/geographic issues were not a big issue).
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Post by sammo420 on Jul 29, 2014 12:48:47 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal ?@ken_Rosenthal 3m Possible dynamic in #RedSox talks: Lester, Lackey are close. Lackey may not want to play for $500K in ’15 or sign extensn if Lester is gone. Send them both to the Dodgers with a twelve piece bucket of chicken and a keg of Sam Adams for Seager, Pederson and Urias. Problem solved.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 29, 2014 12:49:16 GMT -5
Agreed on Mondesi. I believe Mondesi and JP Crawford are the only players born in 1995 in high-A ball, and Crawford is more than six months older than Mondesi. I believe Urias is the only player younger than Mondesi in high-A or above.
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