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2014 Trade Deadline Thread - Discussion Only
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 22, 2014 14:21:34 GMT -5
I'm not sure if people realize how close we are to Holt not having a position. Victorino, Bogaerts, Drew, and JBJ have to take games off for him just to stay in the lineup. He doesn't need a set position in the field, he just needs to stay at the top of our lineup. It hasn't been a problem so far, as literally no one in the game has played more than him since he was recalled on May 17. And semi-frequent off-days aren't a bad thing for Victorino and Drew at all. Hell, I'd sit Victorino close to half the time vs. a RHP, and Stephen Drew against just about every lefty. It was said in context of also trading for Headley.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 22, 2014 14:22:56 GMT -5
Seems like we're using Holt in that super-utility role. He's giving some guys a rest against righties; Victorino and Bogaerts. Playing for Drew or JBJ against lefties. The back-up at 4 positions. Not to mention backing up Pedey. Who can prob be rested here and there against a tough rightie. JBJ shouldn't be skipping LHP. He is hitting them better than RHP this season. I also don't think Bogaerts should be getting many games off. Plus there's WMB supposedly on the way. If we bring WMB up, would have to assume we're dealing Carp. I wish we'd move Xander over to SS against lefties and play WMB at third base. If, that's the move. Hate to lose JBJ's defense, but we need Holt leading off more than that as of this moment. Could change. If/when Holt cools off. But, he's gotta play every day.
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Post by mattpicard on Jul 22, 2014 14:25:41 GMT -5
He doesn't need a set position in the field, he just needs to stay at the top of our lineup. It hasn't been a problem so far, as literally no one in the game has played more than him since he was recalled on May 17. And semi-frequent off-days aren't a bad thing for Victorino and Drew at all. Hell, I'd sit Victorino close to half the time vs. a RHP, and Stephen Drew against just about every lefty. It was said in context of also trading for Headley. OK -- but no one was suggesting that. jrffam just asked what we'd be willing to give up hypothetically if we were at .500 and didn't have Drew on the team.
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Post by nexus on Jul 22, 2014 14:41:26 GMT -5
So, hypothetically, if Drew, Holt, and WMB didn't exist and Brandon Snyder was the Sox everyday 3B? I'd trade Mercedes and Almanzar for Headley.
I have always had an affinity for patient switch hitters, but the herniated disc/epidural treatment makes Headley somewhat of an enigma at the moment. That said, I still hate reading the story where McLeod mentioned it was more or less a complete toss up between drafting Headley or Jonathan Egan @ #57 in '05. Sigh.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 22, 2014 15:00:28 GMT -5
I didn't think the Street deal was that great, considering his team option, but really what would you want for Headley? He is having a terrible season and is a free agent this year. Think of this way, if the Red Sox were .500 right now and we didn't have Drew who would you be comfortable giving up for Headley? No one. We have WMB and Holt. Ok, since I left opportunity for my point to be avoided I will try to rephrase this... Who from our farm system do you think is fair compensation for Headley? Since there is probably still room in that question for manipulation, I will conclude that it probably is not that much better than a Solarte and Paula package
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 22, 2014 15:07:20 GMT -5
I honestly have no idea what Headley is worth. Are you paying for the current player and current performance, or are you paying for the former 30 HR potential? I wouldn't give up much. I have more hope for WMB than him.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 22, 2014 15:14:44 GMT -5
No one. We have WMB and Holt. Ok, since I left opportunity for my point to be avoided I will try to rephrase this... Who from our farm system do you think is fair compensation for Headley? Since there is probably still room in that question for manipulation, I will conclude that it probably is not that much better than a Solarte and Paula package If you are trying to compare Red Sox prospects to Solarte and DePaula, then the closest parallels to Solarte and DePaula are Brandon Snyder (fringe major league infielder) and Simon Mercedes (A-ball lottery ticket RHP). Whether or not it is "fair value" for Headley is a different question because BOS would not value Headley as high as MFY, as we have no need for him and therefore would not trade for him. I would view Solarte as more valuable than Snyder because of less service time, and would view Mercedes as more valuable than DePaula since he has a slightly better chance of sticking as a starter.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Jul 22, 2014 15:29:16 GMT -5
Headley is one of those players who never has quite been the player many thought he was going to be - just the kind of player to have a hot streak after becoming a Yankee.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 22, 2014 15:29:50 GMT -5
JBJ is sitting tonight so that Holt may continue playing. And in another dumb move, Drew is facing LHP. Yeah, he's "hot", but facing lefties is a good way to end that.
JBJ has sat way too many games in July with his .895 OPS.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 22, 2014 15:38:07 GMT -5
Gammo was just on Francesa's show. Said we might take a look at Willingham. Doesn't think we re-up Lester.
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Post by jdb on Jul 22, 2014 15:42:56 GMT -5
I think Willingham is a good fit for next year but with Gomes I'm not sure.
Next year I'd be fine with a LF of Willingham/Nava, CF JBJ RF Vic/ Holt /Nava
Of course Holt could get ABs in CF and maybe 3B in a simi platoon with WMBs.
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Post by mattpicard on Jul 22, 2014 15:53:12 GMT -5
JBJ is sitting tonight so that Holt may continue playing. And in another dumb move, Drew is facing LHP. Yeah, he's "hot", but facing lefties is a good way to end that. JBJ has sat way too many games in July with his .895 OPS. JBJ has played 9 straight and has only sat 3 games this month. He's started 29 of the last 34 games, and 80 of the last 90. But, yeah, I'm mad that he's sitting over Drew.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 22, 2014 15:58:54 GMT -5
I'd think Gomes and Willingham are competing for deadline rentals. We have no reason to trade for him at this point.
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Post by ethanbein on Jul 22, 2014 16:14:27 GMT -5
Headley seems pretty underrated to me right now. Even ignoring his 30 HR season, he put up a 3.5 win season last year, will probably put up a 3 win one this year, and the projections think he'll hit like he did last year going forward. It certainly seems like that's reasonable if he's healthy, and of course there's a ton of upside there. I wouldn't mind giving Headley something like 1/15 this offseason to rebuild his value. Excellent defensive 3B with upside are hard to find. Have to think the Yanks got a steal with this one.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 22, 2014 17:05:57 GMT -5
Gordon Edes ?@gordonedes 2m Sox had scout at Cliff Lee start Monday night, but that's just due diligence
Sean McAdam ?@sean_McAdam 5m About a half-dozen teams scouting, including DET, CWS, TEX, KC, MIL. Brewers insist interest in Peavy limited. Some may be here for TOR.
Buster Olney ?@buster_ESPN 6m The Giants have been investigating the starting pitching trade market, considering their options.
Buster Olney ?@buster_ESPN 8m Peavy/Cards hasn't happened because BOS wanted a prospect in return; STL wanted to just take on salary. SF? Peavy/Bochy go way back.
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Post by saysbill on Jul 22, 2014 17:51:23 GMT -5
It's a shame the Sox and Cards couldn't come to terms. I understand where both sides are coming from there.
I'm not too familiar with the Giants system. Position player-wise, I would love to get Mac Williamson...even though straight up for Peavy doesn't seem realistic.
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Post by Gwell55 on Jul 22, 2014 18:02:12 GMT -5
It's a shame the Sox and Cards couldn't come to terms. I understand where both sides are coming from there. I'm not too familiar with the Giants system. Position player-wise, I would love to get Mac Williamson...even though straight up for Peavy doesn't seem realistic. I see Mac Williamson or Gary Brown in the prospect lists that would seem to be a fair value. www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=brown-005gar
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 22, 2014 18:19:18 GMT -5
Gammo was just on Francesa's show. Said we might take a look at Willingham. Doesn't think we re-up Lester. I've wanted Hammer his entire career in Boston. They have already had every other marlin's OF at one time or another from that decent OF from the mid 2000's, just not the best one.
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Post by saysbill on Jul 22, 2014 21:57:29 GMT -5
Gammo was just on Francesa's show...Doesn't think we re-up Lester. If this is true, don't the Sox have to trade him and get a few good prospects? Or is a Comp. pick better than what they could get in a deal?
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Post by klostrophobic on Jul 22, 2014 22:05:16 GMT -5
It's 10-12 starts of Lester and a comp pick v. whatever you would get via trading Lester. If you think you have a shot at the playoffs, those 10-12 starts are really valuable.
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Post by mgoetze on Jul 22, 2014 22:17:44 GMT -5
It's 10-12 starts of Lester and a comp pick v. whatever you would get via trading Lester. If you think you have a shot at the playoffs, those 10-12 starts are really valuable. And if you think you have a shot at the playoffs, and you're wrong, kiss that protected draft pick goodbye... Admittedly I think it would be hard for the Sox to get a top 11 pick even if they only played young players, Pedroia and Ortiz.
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Post by klostrophobic on Jul 22, 2014 23:05:34 GMT -5
It's 10-12 starts of Lester and a comp pick v. whatever you would get via trading Lester. If you think you have a shot at the playoffs, those 10-12 starts are really valuable. And if you think you have a shot at the playoffs, and you're wrong, kiss that protected draft pick goodbye... Admittedly I think it would be hard for the Sox to get a top 11 pick even if they only played young players, Pedroia and Ortiz. I'm not following. What does the Red Sox having a protected pick have to do with getting a sandwich pick for Lester?
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Post by mgoetze on Jul 22, 2014 23:32:00 GMT -5
And if you think you have a shot at the playoffs, and you're wrong, kiss that protected draft pick goodbye... I'm not following. What does the Red Sox having a protected pick have to do with getting a sandwich pick for Lester? What I'm saying is if the reason that you don't trade Lester is to try and make the playoffs, and then you don't make the playoffs, what you've accomplished is simply to worsen your draft position.
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Post by xanderbogaerts2 on Jul 23, 2014 0:53:38 GMT -5
I would have to agree and Gammo isn't usually wrong. I'm still in favor for trading him because even though we have been on a little tear against terrible teams first of all, second, I don't see this team making it pass the wild card or ALDS even if we add another bat which doesn't seem likely because Gammons feels that Christian Vazquez, Blake Swihart, Mookie Betts, Rubby De La Rosa and Henry Owens are probably all untouchable in trades at this point. So you're going to have to give up at least 1 if not 2 for an decent impact bat. For me this run is a fluke and we should start gearing up to trade players including Lester, Gomes, Peavy, Uehara, Drew, and Carp and prepare for next year. I would try to sign Miller though. Also Sox scouting Rowan Wick Single A OF/C for the Cards. www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=wick--001row&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.mlbtraderumors.com
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 23, 2014 7:33:13 GMT -5
I'm not following. What does the Red Sox having a protected pick have to do with getting a sandwich pick for Lester? What I'm saying is if the reason that you don't trade Lester is to try and make the playoffs, and then you don't make the playoffs, what you've accomplished is simply to worsen your draft position. I hear what you're saying, and a protected pick would be nice if we aren't making the playoffs. Still, on July 31st, it's often hard to say what is possible. I don't think this recent run is a fluke. We have better health, players performing more towards the norm expected vs. way below (regression to the mean?), and no AJP. Contrary to popular opinion, the Sox as an organization are trying to make the playoffs every year. If their chances are slim, but they are playing better and getting closer to the playoffs, they aren't likely to make the decision to sell off every last piece to stock the farm system as much possible and they aren't worried so much about where they're drafting.
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