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7/21-7/24 Red Sox @ Blue Jays Series Thread
ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,915
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 21, 2014 22:54:11 GMT -5
Same as the record with Vazquez. Which is to say, 8-1. Games Vazquez has caught, with SP and RA: De La Rosa, 4 Lackey, 3 Buchholz, 0 De La Rosa, 1 Lackey, 1
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Post by larrycook on Jul 21, 2014 23:01:40 GMT -5
Same as the record with Vazquez. Which is to say, 8-1. Games Vazquez has caught, with SP and RA: De La Rosa, 4 Lackey, 3 Buchholz, 0 De La Rosa, 1 Lackey, 1 Wow! Can you add the stolen base attempt, stolen base successful and caught stealing in games caught by Vazquez?
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 21, 2014 23:05:30 GMT -5
So when was it announced last offseason that Victorino would miss the better part of 2014? 33 year old outfielder who had injury issues for the past 2 seasons while taking a truck load of HBP and playing a stressful corner that is the Fenway RF? You're right, who could have seen it? One of the good things about baseball is the off-season enthusiasm it engenders. Your team is always looking great, ready to clean up, even if you live in Texas. That enthusiasm led to some distorted perceptions about what might be expected. Doing the arithmetic, and assuming something a little less optimistic than last year's 122 games for Victorino made it obvious that the early buzz was a little over the top. Then you mix in Sizemore who had to come up to speed - spring training numbers be damned - and a brand new center-fielder. While it wasn't a no brainer, half a brain got me to the idea that they needed more than they had available. And no, I don't really consider Gomes "available" for outfield duty even though he occupies space there. Anywhere to the right of the scoreboard is terra incognita for the bald-headed bearded one.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 22, 2014 0:03:48 GMT -5
So when was it announced last offseason that Victorino would miss the better part of 2014? 33 year old outfielder who had injury issues for the past 2 seasons while taking a truck load of HBP and playing a stressful corner that is the Fenway RF? You're right, who could have seen it? Obviously you don't expect the guy to play 162, but 120-130 was certainly reasonable and that's more than enough to prevent you from brining in another starting calibre RF.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 22, 2014 0:06:15 GMT -5
Other GM's seen't as smart as us posters. Like they don't know what BABIP is.. I'm sure a team or two like Pitt called about Carp. Ya think they were offering Polanco? Or, someone Cherington didn't think could help? Again, without knowing what was offered, impossible to build an argument to deal him. Unless, you like Mazz and Felger. Look how we got Carp. That will give you a clue as to his value around baseball. I agree with your general point but I'd bet my life that Rubin Amaro doesn't know what BABIP is.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 22, 2014 0:12:39 GMT -5
Except that they were also starting a guy who hadn't played in three years, and who was absolutely stoved up the last time he did take the field. Then they demoted their good left-fielder from last year after a few dozen at bats that didn't go so well. Even before that happened it seemed to me that there were at least 80-100 games for someone else. That someone else isn't Jonny Gomes in my mind. It hasn't helped that Brentz has been AWOL, but there's no planning for that. Still, some of this was predictable.
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Post by klostrophobic on Jul 22, 2014 0:25:29 GMT -5
Great win. Gotta keep the heat on. Go Texas. Go Los Angeles Angels of Garden Grove. We need a new motto. Ya gotta believe has been used. Cowboy up has had it's day. Back to back?? Regress to the mean.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 22, 2014 6:17:08 GMT -5
Except that they were also starting a guy who hadn't played in three years, and who was absolutely stoved up the last time he did take the field. Then they demoted their good left-fielder from last year after a few dozen at bats that didn't go so well. Even before that happened it seemed to me that there were at least 80-100 games for someone else. That someone else isn't Jonny Gomes in my mind. It hasn't helped that Brentz has been AWOL, but there's no planning for that. Still, some of this was predictable. Here's a list of last year's free agent signings. Which of the cf's should we have signed instead of Sizemore? Ellsbury, Choo, Chris Young?? I don't see many good options. Who would you have signed? Choo?? www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2013-free-agents.shtml I think the front office felt JBJ and Vazquez were close. But, needed more seasoning. They didn't want to tie up a lot of money when they had an in-house answer about ready. If that's their reasoning, looking pretty accurate. I think they botched shortstop. 99PCT of us wanted Bogaerts. Including Cherington. I think Farrell wanted Drew back all winter. Blame it on Drew, Boras, Cherington whomever. This would have been a better team had Drew been here all of spring training. Maybe, we don't discover Holt in that scenario. Maybe, Bogaerts has a steadier season had he started at 3b. Carp instead of a RH OF bat looks like a mistake in hindsight. But, we did win the World Series with a bench of Ross, Carp, Gomes/Nava platoon and an inf. Middlebrooks, Bogaerts and whomever else played last year.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 22, 2014 8:22:53 GMT -5
Where are all the Choo supporters? Do you still wish the Sox gave him the contract Texas did?
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 22, 2014 8:23:17 GMT -5
33 year old outfielder who had injury issues for the past 2 seasons while taking a truck load of HBP and playing a stressful corner that is the Fenway RF? You're right, who could have seen it? Obviously you don't expect the guy to play 162, but 120-130 was certainly reasonable and that's more than enough to prevent you from brining in another starting calibre RF. For the sake of holding onto a backup DH while also having a rookie CF?
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 22, 2014 8:25:23 GMT -5
Except that they were also starting a guy who hadn't played in three years, and who was absolutely stoved up the last time he did take the field. Then they demoted their good left-fielder from last year after a few dozen at bats that didn't go so well. Even before that happened it seemed to me that there were at least 80-100 games for someone else. That someone else isn't Jonny Gomes in my mind. It hasn't helped that Brentz has been AWOL, but there's no planning for that. Still, some of this was predictable. Considering we did predict it, it's clear it was predictable. Holt wasn't predictable, but he saved the entire OF situation.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 22, 2014 8:32:55 GMT -5
Except that they were also starting a guy who hadn't played in three years, and who was absolutely stoved up the last time he did take the field. Then they demoted their good left-fielder from last year after a few dozen at bats that didn't go so well. Even before that happened it seemed to me that there were at least 80-100 games for someone else. That someone else isn't Jonny Gomes in my mind. It hasn't helped that Brentz has been AWOL, but there's no planning for that. Still, some of this was predictable. Here's a list of last year's free agent signings. Which of the cf's should we have signed instead of Sizemore? Ellsbury, Choo, Chris Young?? I don't see many good options. Who would you have signed? Choo?? www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2013-free-agents.shtml I think the front office felt JBJ and Vazquez were close. But, needed more seasoning. They didn't want to tie up a lot of money when they had an in-house answer about ready. If that's their reasoning, looking pretty accurate. I think they botched shortstop. 99PCT of us wanted Bogaerts. Including Cherington. I think Farrell wanted Drew back all winter. Blame it on Drew, Boras, Cherington whomever. This would have been a better team had Drew been here all of spring training. Maybe, we don't discover Holt in that scenario. Maybe, Bogaerts has a steadier season had he started at 3b. Carp instead of a RH OF bat looks like a mistake in hindsight. But, we did win the World Series with a bench of Ross, Carp, Gomes/Nava platoon and an inf. Middlebrooks, Bogaerts and whomever else played last year. We won despite that, not because of that. Allow those of us who didn't use hindsight to say we didn't use hindsight. The problem was that an injury splits up the platoon and made it way worse, where you're playing Gomes in LF and Nava in RF against pitching that turns one of them basically into good hitting pitchers. Holt saved us from seeing that. Carp was brought in only because we were unsure of how Napoli was going to hold up. He is a backup DH on this team who might be slightly better than Nava at 1B. We didn't and don't need him and couldn't afford the roster spot. I wouldn't have held out for a top prospect.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 22, 2014 8:35:03 GMT -5
Where are all the Choo supporters? Do you still wish the Sox gave him the contract Texas did? *crickets chirping* I still would have tried to get Cano for 3B.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 22, 2014 8:40:59 GMT -5
Where are all the Choo supporters? Do you still wish the Sox gave him the contract Texas did? They're now on the Lester 7/$175mm bandwagon.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 22, 2014 9:33:12 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 22, 2014 9:36:18 GMT -5
So many things wrong with the first two paragraphs:
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Post by mattpicard on Jul 22, 2014 11:44:33 GMT -5
As frustrating as waiting for Felix Doubront to put it together has been, it's tough not to feel for the guy when you look at his current role on the team. Here's an excerpt from the Globe today: Starter or reliever, he needs a change of scenery. We're not going to get anything overly notable in return for him, but you have to think he'll be moved by the end of the month. That is, unless we move Miller and thrust Doubront into a his role, because he's actually better than Breslow at this point.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 22, 2014 12:03:34 GMT -5
They just want to give the Red Sox a good scouting report for when they flip him for Lester
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Post by Guidas on Jul 22, 2014 12:20:10 GMT -5
Where are all the Choo supporters? Do you still wish the Sox gave him the contract Texas did? *crickets chirping* I still would have tried to get Cano for 3B. I didn't know this was a proposal in the off-season, but I would've been on board if they could've talked Cano into it. I was generally for "stealing" him from NYY if they could get him for 6-7 years, but thought he would be a LF.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 22, 2014 12:26:24 GMT -5
Here's a list of last year's free agent signings. Which of the cf's should we have signed instead of Sizemore? Ellsbury, Choo, Chris Young?? I don't see many good options. Who would you have signed? Choo?? www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2013-free-agents.shtml I think the front office felt JBJ and Vazquez were close. But, needed more seasoning. They didn't want to tie up a lot of money when they had an in-house answer about ready. If that's their reasoning, looking pretty accurate. I think they botched shortstop. 99PCT of us wanted Bogaerts. Including Cherington. I think Farrell wanted Drew back all winter. Blame it on Drew, Boras, Cherington whomever. This would have been a better team had Drew been here all of spring training. Maybe, we don't discover Holt in that scenario. Maybe, Bogaerts has a steadier season had he started at 3b. Carp instead of a RH OF bat looks like a mistake in hindsight. But, we did win the World Series with a bench of Ross, Carp, Gomes/Nava platoon and an inf. Middlebrooks, Bogaerts and whomever else played last year. We won despite that, not because of that. Allow those of us who didn't use hindsight to say we didn't use hindsight. The problem was that an injury splits up the platoon and made it way worse, where you're playing Gomes in LF and Nava in RF against pitching that turns one of them basically into good hitting pitchers. Holt saved us from seeing that. Carp was brought in only because we were unsure of how Napoli was going to hold up. He is a backup DH on this team who might be slightly better than Nava at 1B. We didn't and don't need him and couldn't afford the roster spot. I wouldn't have held out for a top prospect. You're wrong. Period. The platoon of Nava/Gomes contributed greatly to winning it. Carp had a ton of huge hits and a fantastic season for a part-time player. Ross ended up starting in the World Series. Yet, you say we won in spite of them. I can see you like to disagree with people just to be disagreeable. But, you're flat out wrong in your assessment of how we won it last year.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 22, 2014 12:28:07 GMT -5
I always thought of Cano as a 3b who was playing 2B because he was blocked. I would think he would profile better as a 3B, cannon arm, not typical middle infielder range. He is one of the best at turning a double play or as the relay though...
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Post by jmei on Jul 22, 2014 12:33:41 GMT -5
Cano would have been the classic example of the winner's curse. To outbid the Yankees for him, you'd have to pay him a lot more than he's likely to produce.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 22, 2014 12:34:53 GMT -5
I have to agree, Red Sox LF was 3rd in MLB in both WOBP and WRC due to the platoon of Gomes/Nava. They were beaten out by Trout and Cargo. Carp hit 296/362/523. Ross hit 216/298/382, which is bad, but he is a defensive catcher and it doesn't look bad when you compare it to the league catcher line of 245/310/388. So he was roughly an average offensive catcher and a great defensive catcher. What more do you want out of bench players?
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 22, 2014 12:36:17 GMT -5
Nava played more RF than LF last year.
The point still remains. With any Victorino injury, the platoon is screwed up and way less efficient. With easily predictable chances of Victorino injuries this year along with the uncertainty of how JBJ would play, there was no room for Carp to the point where you're holding out for a top prospect for him.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 22, 2014 12:36:24 GMT -5
Cano would have beenFree agent signings are the classic example of the winner's curse. To outbid the Yankees for him, you'd have to pay him a lot more than he's likely to produce. Fixed
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