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Post by ramireja on Mar 27, 2018 16:56:33 GMT -5
It would be so ideal for him to break out for next season after Hanley's contract expires. I'd rather put Hanley's option towards something else. If Sam Travis is killing it in AAA, then it makes sense for him to be the next platoon partner of Moreland next year. Hanley hasn't been worth near his contract since he's been here. Banking on Hanley for the next 2 years is literally a losing bet. I think he meant it would be great for Travis to break out now (i.e., this year) to replace Hanley next year.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 27, 2018 17:37:55 GMT -5
It would be so ideal for him to break out for next season after Hanley's contract expires. I'd rather put Hanley's option towards something else. If Sam Travis is killing it in AAA, then it makes sense for him to be the next platoon partner of Moreland next year. Hanley hasn't been worth near his contract since he's been here. Banking on Hanley for the next 2 years is literally a losing bet. Personally, I’m rooting for Hanley to get his option.
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Post by telson13 on Mar 28, 2018 0:17:06 GMT -5
I'd rather put Hanley's option towards something else. If Sam Travis is killing it in AAA, then it makes sense for him to be the next platoon partner of Moreland next year. Hanley hasn't been worth near his contract since he's been here. Banking on Hanley for the next 2 years is literally a losing bet. Personally, I’m rooting for Hanley to get his option. Yup. If he’s getting that option vested, he’s basically gotta be absolutely killin’ it.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 28, 2018 0:23:02 GMT -5
Personally, I’m rooting for Hanley to get his option. Yup. If he’s getting that option vested, he’s basically gotta be absolutely killin’ it. That means you're spending 22 million next year for a even older Hanley in 2019 though. It just wouldn't be worth it. I just hope Moreland gets just enough at bats.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 28, 2018 7:35:18 GMT -5
It would be so ideal for him to break out for next season after Hanley's contract expires. I'd rather put Hanley's option towards something else. If Sam Travis is killing it in AAA, then it makes sense for him to be the next platoon partner of Moreland next year. Hanley hasn't been worth near his contract since he's been here. Banking on Hanley for the next 2 years is literally a losing bet. I meant Travis replacing Hanley next season.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 28, 2018 9:36:17 GMT -5
Yup. If he’s getting that option vested, he’s basically gotta be absolutely killin’ it. That means you're spending 22 million next year for a even older Hanley in 2019 though. It just wouldn't be worth it. I just hope Moreland gets just enough at bats. So the guy who says every win and every game this year is of the utmost importance wants the team to sit a really good Hanley so his option doesn’t vest? Interesting...
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 28, 2018 9:38:09 GMT -5
Yup. If he’s getting that option vested, he’s basically gotta be absolutely killin’ it. That means you're spending 22 million next year for a even older Hanley in 2019 though. It just wouldn't be worth it. I just hope Moreland gets just enough at bats. If Hanley is productive Hanley as opposed to injured Hanley, he's absolutely a better option than Travis. Hanley is 34 this year and 35 next year. You make it sound like he's 40. Even with an improved swing path (I agree with Ian's take), it'd be foolish to expect Travis to put up a line even remotely like Hanley's 2016 line, for example.
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Sam Travis
Mar 28, 2018 10:09:07 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by telson13 on Mar 28, 2018 10:09:07 GMT -5
That means you're spending 22 million next year for a even older Hanley in 2019 though. It just wouldn't be worth it. I just hope Moreland gets just enough at bats. If Hanley is productive Hanley as opposed to injured Hanley, he's absolutely a better option than Travis. Hanley is 34 this year and 35 next year. You make it sound like he's 40. Even with an improved swing path (I agree with Ian's take), it'd be foolish to expect Travis to put up a line even remotely like Hanley's 2016 line, for example. Yeah, that’s kinda where I’m at, too. Hanley’s gonna have to be close to his career slash (say, .285/.360/.500), I’d think, to warrant enough playing time to vest his option. Maybe more if Moreland is playing well. I don’t think Travis can be counted on to come close to that, at least at this point. Maybe he throws up a .300/.360/.540 line in AAA and it looks more likely. Hanley’s option vesting is problematic even if he is “worth” his contract, but it’s only one year. And if he *does* kill it, he may be moveable in a trade, if that’s the way the Sox wanna go. Travis is no Devers or Mookie; he’s not a guy you specifically avoid “blocking.” I like him, don’t get me wrong, but I’m pretty sanguine about his being a first-division regular. Maybe so, maybe not, but there’s nothing that screams it just yet.
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Sam Travis
Mar 28, 2018 10:52:11 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by m1keyboots on Mar 28, 2018 10:52:11 GMT -5
Another big Hanley Ramirez breakout aside, personally I'm rooting for Mitch Moreland. Of course I wouldn't mind if Hanley went bananas again. Hanley Ramirez is the man, man.
As far as Sam Travis goes, how many guys enjoy such a power breakout in their mid-twenties? Yes there are a couple, but that means we'd be willing to bet that Travis is in the same category as a Josh Donald, or a JD Martinez. Even if it's a minor Improvement overall, with a big Power Surge from the adjustment like Marlon Byrd, would he be that much better than Mitch at that level? And I don't think Travis is close to the defensive value that Moreland gives you with his left-handed stick providing some matchup benefits too.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 28, 2018 19:39:15 GMT -5
Another big Hanley Ramirez breakout aside, personally I'm rooting for Mitch Moreland. Of course I wouldn't mind if Hanley went bananas again. Hanley Ramirez is the man, man. As far as Sam Travis goes, how many guys enjoy such a power breakout in their mid-twenties? Yes there are a couple, but that means we'd be willing to bet that Travis is in the same category as a Josh Donald, or a JD Martinez. Even if it's a minor Improvement overall, with a big Power Surge from the adjustment like Marlon Byrd, would he be that much better than Mitch at that level? And I don't think Travis is close to the defensive value that Moreland gives you with his left-handed stick providing some matchup benefits too. That’s the kind of skepticism I can usually get behind, but given that we just lived through the Year of the Busted Prospect (Yonder, Smoak, Morrison), I’m not going to be quite so dismissive of swing change stories as I am about, for instance, BSOHL stories.
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Sam Travis
Mar 28, 2018 21:55:46 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 28, 2018 21:55:46 GMT -5
That means you're spending 22 million next year for a even older Hanley in 2019 though. It just wouldn't be worth it. I just hope Moreland gets just enough at bats. So the guy who says every win and every game this year is of the utmost importance wants the team to sit a really good Hanley so his option doesn’t vest? Interesting... This might be the one instance where I say to not go all out to make the better player play. Hanley in 2019 hurts the team and that is somewhat short-term here.
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Sam Travis
Mar 28, 2018 21:59:02 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 28, 2018 21:59:02 GMT -5
That means you're spending 22 million next year for a even older Hanley in 2019 though. It just wouldn't be worth it. I just hope Moreland gets just enough at bats. If Hanley is productive Hanley as opposed to injured Hanley, he's absolutely a better option than Travis. Hanley is 34 this year and 35 next year. You make it sound like he's 40. Even with an improved swing path (I agree with Ian's take), it'd be foolish to expect Travis to put up a line even remotely like Hanley's 2016 line, for example. Hanley has played like a all-star for 3 months here in his whole time in Boston, Chris. If it wasn't for the second half of 2016, the Hanley Ramirez contract might have been a total disaster here. He's never dependable or healthy. That is kind of my point. I'd rather pay a younger Kimbrel or Pomeranz than a 35 year old Hanley, who I can say with a somewhat bias, plays like he's 40 half the time.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 28, 2018 22:06:15 GMT -5
If Hanley is productive Hanley as opposed to injured Hanley, he's absolutely a better option than Travis. Hanley is 34 this year and 35 next year. You make it sound like he's 40. Even with an improved swing path (I agree with Ian's take), it'd be foolish to expect Travis to put up a line even remotely like Hanley's 2016 line, for example. Hanley has played like a all-star for 3 months here in his whole time in Boston, Chris. If it wasn't for the second half of 2016, the Hanley Ramirez contract might have been a total disaster here. He's never dependable or healthy. That is kind of my point. I'd rather pay a younger Kimbrel or Pomeranz than a 35 year old Hanley, who I can say with a somewhat bias, plays like he's 40 half the time. I think you're underselling his 2016. He certainly had a bad slump from mid-May to mid-June, and was also not great for a couple-week stretch in April, but that's a thing with power hitters. Hell, that happened to Ortiz for longer stretches. In 2017, I hope we can all agree that health, a recurring issue over his career, was the problem. But that's the thing: If he is not healthy... you don't play him. If he is not playing well... you don't play him. My point is that if he's hitting like he did when he was healthy and productive in 2016, you play him because he's by far the best option you have. EDIT: Good lord, I completely forgot about 2015. Someone refresh my recollection about what even happened there. Was it just the left field nonsense?
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Sam Travis
Mar 28, 2018 22:14:32 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 28, 2018 22:14:32 GMT -5
Hanley has played like a all-star for 3 months here in his whole time in Boston, Chris. If it wasn't for the second half of 2016, the Hanley Ramirez contract might have been a total disaster here. He's never dependable or healthy. That is kind of my point. I'd rather pay a younger Kimbrel or Pomeranz than a 35 year old Hanley, who I can say with a somewhat bias, plays like he's 40 half the time. I think you're underselling his 2016. He certainly had a bad slump from mid-May to mid-June, and was also not great for a couple-week stretch in April, but that's a thing with power hitters. Hell, that happened to Ortiz for longer stretches. In 2017, I hope we can all agree that health, a recurring issue over his career, was the problem. But that's the thing: If he is not healthy... you don't play him. If he is not playing well... you don't play him. My point is that if he's hitting like he did when he was healthy and productive in 2016, you play him because he's by far the best option you have. EDIT: Good lord, I completely forgot about 2015. Someone refresh my recollection about what even happened there. Was it just the left field nonsense? I'd rather play Hanley at around 480 at bats and give the rest to Moreland. Maybe that's a half a win difference between that and 550 at bats in 2018, but I'll take that half a win difference less in 2018. Money better spent elsewhere in 2019 if Hanley is gone.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 29, 2018 0:12:03 GMT -5
Hanley has played like a all-star for 3 months here in his whole time in Boston, Chris. If it wasn't for the second half of 2016, the Hanley Ramirez contract might have been a total disaster here. He's never dependable or healthy. That is kind of my point. I'd rather pay a younger Kimbrel or Pomeranz than a 35 year old Hanley, who I can say with a somewhat bias, plays like he's 40 half the time. I think you're underselling his 2016. He certainly had a bad slump from mid-May to mid-June, and was also not great for a couple-week stretch in April, but that's a thing with power hitters. Hell, that happened to Ortiz for longer stretches. In 2017, I hope we can all agree that health, a recurring issue over his career, was the problem. But that's the thing: If he is not healthy... you don't play him. If he is not playing well... you don't play him. My point is that if he's hitting like he did when he was healthy and productive in 2016, you play him because he's by far the best option you have. EDIT: Good lord, I completely forgot about 2015. Someone refresh my recollection about what even happened there. Was it just the left field nonsense? If my memory is correct, Hanley crashed into the wall in 2015 and injured his shoulder while playing LF. That messed up his season pretty good. And he had shoulder issues last season, too. But in 2016, I agree, he was pretty fantastic. I remember how he practically clinched the division title for the Sox when he lead the Sox to a 4 game sweep at Fenway. The HR off Betances with 2 out in the 9th was sensational. Hanley is either feast or famine and if he's healthy, he will absolutely rake. If he isn't he won't accumulate enough plate appearances for the option to vest anyways. He could rake and still not get his appearances. It wouldn't take much - a prolonged stint on the DL for about 2 to 3 weeks might preclude him from getting his plate appearances even if he is raking. But if he is raking, then you definitely need to let him get his ABs, even if it carries him past 497 plate appearances. Hanley still has a high ceiling of productivity. Mitch Moreland doesn't, but Moreland does make for an excellent insurance policy so that if Hanley gets hurt or doesn't hit or is a mess defensively, the Sox still get respectable performance out of 1b. But when Hanley goes on a tear he is an impact player. Plus he has hit very well the last two post-seasons. Can't say that about most of the guys in the Sox lineup. If his options vests it will be because he totally earned it, and if he does, that means he was great and I'm cool with it. If he's healthy I'm sure he'll hit in 2019, too. Who knows? Maybe that Tom Brady workout thing will help keep Hanley healthy and young. Worth finding out anyways.
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Post by Coreno on Mar 29, 2018 1:10:58 GMT -5
An oft forgotten fact is that Hanley was actually the best player on this team in April 2015.
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Post by m1keyboots on Apr 1, 2018 6:40:45 GMT -5
Another big Hanley Ramirez breakout aside, personally I'm rooting for Mitch Moreland. Of course I wouldn't mind if Hanley went bananas again. Hanley Ramirez is the man, man. As far as Sam Travis goes, how many guys enjoy such a power breakout in their mid-twenties? Yes there are a couple, but that means we'd be willing to bet that Travis is in the same category as a Josh Donald, or a JD Martinez. Even if it's a minor Improvement overall, with a big Power Surge from the adjustment like Marlon Byrd, would he be that much better than Mitch at that level? And I don't think Travis is close to the defensive value that Moreland gives you with his left-handed stick providing some matchup benefits too. That’s the kind of skepticism I can usually get behind, but given that we just lived through the Year of the Busted Prospect (Yonder, Smoak, Morrison), I’m not going to be quite so dismissive of swing change stories as I am about, for instance, BSOHL stories. I appreciate your response, however the players you cited were big-time prospects to begin with. At least they were relatively highly-touted. Once again I don't mean to throw shade on Sam Travis, but apart from his awesome career at Indiana, he was never that highly-touted of a prospect, and in the minor leagues he didn't show much power for a first baseman, with a more so bad to ball approach. In my very humble opinion I just don't feel like that kind of player profile fits on the Red Sox from the right side. Also, Color Me ignorant but I don't know what BSOHL means :/
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Post by iakovos11 on Apr 1, 2018 11:26:56 GMT -5
Best shape of his life
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 1, 2018 11:58:03 GMT -5
That’s the kind of skepticism I can usually get behind, but given that we just lived through the Year of the Busted Prospect (Yonder, Smoak, Morrison), I’m not going to be quite so dismissive of swing change stories as I am about, for instance, BSOHL stories. I appreciate your response, however the players you cited were big-time prospects to begin with. At least they were relatively highly-touted. Once again I don't mean to throw shade on Sam Travis, but apart from his awesome career at Indiana, he was never that highly-touted of a prospect, and in the minor leagues he didn't show much power for a first baseman, with a more so bad to ball approach. In my very humble opinion I just don't feel like that kind of player profile fits on the Red Sox from the right side. Also, Color Me ignorant but I don't know what BSOHL means :/ Keith Law rated Travis as a top 100 prospect, so it's not like he's a total scrub or something like that. He has hit .295 .360 .434 .794 in the minors. So he's a very good hitter and has good on base skills. The big knock being he didn't show the power you want from a guy that will play 1B. Thing is he has raw power that he has shown off for years in batting practice. His swing just limited that in games. So if a new swing can unlock his raw power, while not hurting his hitting ability, you have a great young piece at 1B. We'll have to wait and see, but so far he looks great.
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Post by m1keyboots on Apr 4, 2018 6:30:19 GMT -5
I appreciate your response, however the players you cited were big-time prospects to begin with. At least they were relatively highly-touted. Once again I don't mean to throw shade on Sam Travis, but apart from his awesome career at Indiana, he was never that highly-touted of a prospect, and in the minor leagues he didn't show much power for a first baseman, with a more so bad to ball approach. In my very humble opinion I just don't feel like that kind of player profile fits on the Red Sox from the right side. Also, Color Me ignorant but I don't know what BSOHL means :/ Keith Law rated Travis as a top 100 prospect, so it's not like he's a total scrub or something like that. He has hit .295 .360 .434 .794 in the minors. So he's a very good hitter and has good on base skills. The big knock being he didn't show the power you want from a guy that will play 1B. Thing is he has raw power that he has shown off for years in batting practice. His swing just limited that in games. So if a new swing can unlock his raw power, while not hurting his hitting ability, you have a great young piece at 1B. We'll have to wait and see, but so far he looks great. He also seems to run well for a first baseman, but I'm in the camp that the swing change approach only works for a small percentage of players with the bat to ball skills, and it's getting a bit late for him. I also don't think spring training was the beginning of that, considering he was a similar player in terms of production last spring. I do think he could be a major league regular, but a good fit in Boston? I have my doubts. I still wish good things for him, and if it's not in a box and uniform hopefully it's for somebody else who traded us a dynamite Prospect
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Post by m1keyboots on Apr 4, 2018 6:37:46 GMT -5
Hanley has played like a all-star for 3 months here in his whole time in Boston, Chris. If it wasn't for the second half of 2016, the Hanley Ramirez contract might have been a total disaster here. He's never dependable or healthy. That is kind of my point. I'd rather pay a younger Kimbrel or Pomeranz than a 35 year old Hanley, who I can say with a somewhat bias, plays like he's 40 half the time. I think you're underselling his 2016. He certainly had a bad slump from mid-May to mid-June, and was also not great for a couple-week stretch in April, but that's a thing with power hitters. Hell, that happened to Ortiz for longer stretches. In 2017, I hope we can all agree that health, a recurring issue over his career, was the problem. But that's the thing: If he is not healthy... you don't play him. If he is not playing well... you don't play him. My point is that if he's hitting like he did when he was healthy and productive in 2016, you play him because he's by far the best option you have. EDIT: Good lord, I completely forgot about 2015. Someone refresh my recollection about what even happened there. Was it just the left field nonsense? 2015 was the original move to Third Base, then it was moving him to left field where he hurt himself multiple times and became somewhat of a punching bag with the Boston media (not running out ground balls to Pitchers, missing cut off men, judgements on what they felt was "sulking" after making outs LOL, basically, not being a saint) which I don't suspect he was ready for that type of 24/7 harsh criticism. Although that's crazy to think, every player should know that the media seems as though they basically wait for the worst moments from players, writing about them with as much negative drama as humanly possible without being in 11th grade. If it were up to me every single Boston beat writer should be replaced with the Sox prospects moderators
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 4, 2018 13:11:42 GMT -5
Keith Law rated Travis as a top 100 prospect, so it's not like he's a total scrub or something like that. He has hit .295 .360 .434 .794 in the minors. So he's a very good hitter and has good on base skills. The big knock being he didn't show the power you want from a guy that will play 1B. Thing is he has raw power that he has shown off for years in batting practice. His swing just limited that in games. So if a new swing can unlock his raw power, while not hurting his hitting ability, you have a great young piece at 1B. We'll have to wait and see, but so far he looks great. He also seems to run well for a first baseman, but I'm in the camp that the swing change approach only works for a small percentage of players with the bat to ball skills, and it's getting a bit late for him. I also don't think spring training was the beginning of that, considering he was a similar player in terms of production last spring. I do think he could be a major league regular, but a good fit in Boston? I have my doubts. I still wish good things for him, and if it's not in a box and uniform hopefully it's for somebody else who traded us a dynamite Prospect I would just point out that not all players with bat to ball skills are the same. For example he's always had above-average raw power, it just didn't translate to the games. So I'd bet on a guy like that adding power over a lot of other bat to ball hitters that lack raw power. You just have to unlock Travis power, not develop it. The key being to do that without hurting his bat to ball skills that much. I wouldn't think age 24 is too old, not when he missed most of 2016 with a knee injury. I bet that got the team to wait an extra year to revamp his swing. Not wanting to mess with it when he was coming back from a major injury. In 2017 he hit 3 HRs in 21 games during spring training and did have very good numbers. I just feel we've seen him do that before in stretches, like 6 HRs in 47 games in 2016. This year he hit 6 HRs in 27 games, we've never seen that type of power from him before. So for me I'm going to buy he's turned a corner with his new swing and can't wait to see how he does in the minors.
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Post by m1keyboots on Apr 5, 2018 7:40:43 GMT -5
I wouldn't think age 24 is too old, not when he missed most of 2016 with a knee injury. I bet that got the team to wait an extra year to revamp his swing. Not wanting to mess with it when he was coming back from a major injury.
In 2017 he hit 3 HRs in 21 games during spring training and did have very good numbers. I just feel we've seen him do that before in stretches, like 6 HRs in 47 games in 2016. This year he hit 6 HRs in 27 games, we've never seen that type of power from him before. So for me I'm going to buy he's turned a corner with his new swing and can't wait to see how he does in the minors.[/quote]
Quick reply, I meant Olden the fact that we have Moreland sign for a couple years and Hanley is more likely or to get that extension by the day pushing his MLB playing time age to 26 maybe 27. Which would be his Peak years, and that would be when the power would come. And you're right, he does have decent raw power but with average ish defense and really no versatility he'd have to maximize that power in my opinion to make an impact in Boston.
Although we could be looking at a Travis Shaw situation all over again, not in terms of skillset just in terms of letting a guy go because we already had somebody
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alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 619
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Post by alnipper on May 30, 2019 13:20:39 GMT -5
The man is a speed demon! 4 sb's in his last two games. Can he make it 3 straight games? lol Sometimes baseball is a funny game.
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