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Post by jmei on Aug 4, 2014 13:04:43 GMT -5
What the FO & owners (with their blessings) did with the RS starter rotation is insane. As a lifelong 38 yr as the RS fan, I never seen they blow up almost entire rotation (4 of 5) after they won the World Series from previous season. They made right call on Jake Peavy & Felix Doubront for trade but our #1 & #2 starters due to upcoming FA & favorable minimum contract. The same gnashing of teeth happened after letting Pedro and Lowe go after 2004.
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Post by raftsox on Aug 4, 2014 13:50:29 GMT -5
And then after 2005 they realized that an unhealthy "ace" (then Schilling, now Buchholz) followed by mid-rotation starters wouldn't cut it alone. It took a trade for and a good season from Beckett to make the rotation good again.
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Post by mredsox89 on Aug 4, 2014 14:08:19 GMT -5
But they're not actually going to go into 2015 with Buchholz as the lead man. I see zero chance in which the rotation is headlined by Buchholz. I have a pretty good feeling he's not even the second in line come opening day 2015
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Post by Guidas on Aug 4, 2014 14:11:27 GMT -5
"And also at the same time, my focus was so important. I think in baseball, once you let go for one second, you have a chance to get lost. Mentally you have to be there a hundred percent, every pitch. If you look at the game, every time you pitch a game, you lose a game on one pitch or you win it on one pitch. The day you lose your focus for one pitch, that day you lose the game on one pitch.”
Pedro Martinez. Today (http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/08/04/pedro-martinez-on-mfb-red-sox-are-under-no-pressure-because-of-last-years-title/).
But mechanics and repeating a delivery aren't mental so, hey, what does he know?
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Post by jmei on Aug 4, 2014 14:29:12 GMT -5
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Post by Guidas on Aug 4, 2014 16:07:23 GMT -5
All set, though I really believed I was quite clear and you were unwilling to change your mind. But go ahead and try to raise your hand or walk or drive a stick shift or pitch or do any activity using your somatic nervous system without using your mind. It is impossible. It is a learned activity. Recalling how to do any activity successfully on a repeated basis is also a learned activity. So it is based in the mind. It requires focus and execution, which is a mental activity. However, failure to focus and execute does not indicate mental illness or a mental disorder. Simply it's an indication that one has not learned the activity well enough to repeat it often enough for it to be deemed a success. Which means more practice at execution. Which means engaging the mind to focus. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
I don't think I can state this any more clearly than that. (Maybe. If I focus better.). But no matter how clear I make it, if you don't want to accept it, then, ultimately, it's not my problem.
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danr
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Post by danr on Aug 4, 2014 16:40:47 GMT -5
It's not necessary to try to get into the head of a player when it is obvious what he is doing wrong. I also think none of us has anywhere close to the right information to try to do that.
Andrew Miller was a project when he came to the Red Sox. He didn't have command of his pitches and a lot of people had tried to straighten him out. The Red Sox succeeded. Webster has such good stuff, and he still is quite young. I think there is a reasonable chance he can be a successful major league pitcher.
Buchholz is a different story. He says he can't explain what has happened. That's probably true because if he could he would fix it. I think he probably needs an extended period of private workouts and practices. Something has happened to his muscle memory. He can't repeat his delivery. His delivery is different for every pitch. It's very basic, but I think it is something that won't be cured overnight. It reminds of me of those pitchers who got the yips and couldn't recover.
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Post by dominicansoxfan on Aug 4, 2014 17:05:04 GMT -5
There is no such thing as muscle memory! Muscles are stupid, and do what they are told by the central nervous system. This is nothing like the "yips" in which the sympathetic nervous system interrupts the normal signaling of the cortical spinal pathway. He has altered his mechanics because he is afraid of injury, and he knows exactly what has happened but can't say it without it leading to an upheaval. It is mental but not the "yips" and does not appear to be a mood disorder like anxiety.
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Aug 4, 2014 18:10:10 GMT -5
I see the Red Sox adding two major SP pieces this off-season. I think one comes from FA, and sentiment aside, Lester makes the most sense. He's LH, can pitch in Boston and most importantly does not cost a draft pick. I can't imagine that Scherzer is a candidate to come here. Boras will squeeze every dollar and the RS are unlikely to top all other offers, nor should they.
Then there's a trade for someone like Hamels, Latos or Cueto. We have the prospects to make that happen.
I'm intrigued by Kenta Maeda from Japan. He would cost zero prospects and draft picks.
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Post by zil on Aug 4, 2014 18:37:29 GMT -5
I'd take a Lester/Shields combo. At what point do we get off the Buchholz roller coaster? At least a kid offers the potential to establish himself as a consistent starter. I think we know Clay will never maintain his level now. I'd rather go with this: 1) FA (Lester/Scherzer) 2) FA (Shields/ ) 3) Kelly 4) De La Rosa 5) Ranaudo/Webster/Workman/Wright than this: 1) FA (Lester/Scherzer) 2) FA (Shields/ ) 3) Buchholz 4) Kelly 5) De La Rosa
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Aug 4, 2014 20:36:53 GMT -5
I'd take a Lester/Shields combo. At what point do we get off the Buchholz roller coaster? At least a kid offers the potential to establish himself as a consistent starter. I think we know Clay will never maintain his level now. I'd rather go with this: 1) FA (Lester/Scherzer) 2) FA (Shields/ ) 3) Kelly 4) De La Rosa 5) Ranaudo/Webster/Workman/Wright than this: 1) FA (Lester/Scherzer) 2) FA (Shields/ ) 3) Buchholz 4) Kelly 5) De La Rosa
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Aug 4, 2014 20:40:11 GMT -5
Hamels > Shields. I like:
1. Lester (not expecting it, though) 2. Hamels 3. Maeda 4. RDLR 5. Renaudo and Wright competition with the loser riding the I-95 shuttle.
Workman and Kelly to the pen. Webster looks lost. Wouldn't count on him.
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Post by xanderbogaerts2 on Aug 4, 2014 21:14:02 GMT -5
Hamels > Shields. I like: 1. Lester (not expecting it, though) 2. Hamels 3. Maeda 4. RDLR 5. Renaudo and Wright competition with the loser riding the I-95 shuttle. Workman and Kelly to the pen. Webster looks lost. Wouldn't count on him. Cueto > Hamels. I like: 1. Lester (I think 50% will sign) 2. Cueto 3. Maeda 4. Kelly 5. RDLR/Ranaudo/Wright Workman and Webster to the pen. I think Webster to the pen will be the best for him. He always has one ace-like inning, then he's okay, last inning he implodes. He might get that 97-98 back that he had in ST 2 years ago.
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Post by larrycook on Aug 4, 2014 23:12:40 GMT -5
1.) sherzer 2.) de la rosa 3.) Kelly 4.) ranaudo 5.) Escobar
Workman and Webster to the bullpen. Buchholz to the dl for shoulder surgery.
Our first round pick will be protected. At the moment I am guessing a top three pick.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Aug 5, 2014 0:18:29 GMT -5
However it ends up this season, RDLR and Workman have earned the right to be in the rotation going forward into 2015. Those are the only 2 (meaning Webster) that have put solid starts on the board, something Webster has failed to do in any of his, spread over 2 seasons.
I'd like to see Ranaudo get more, sooner rather than later, tho it seems his will be later on during the season, hopefully he gets more than just 2-3 in September when RDLR hits his innings limit.
Strange didn't hear all the howls from the Wright supporters that generally make themselves so well known when got sent back to Pawtucket, those who were screaming for him to get starts. I think he will, but still think it will be after each and every one of the younger kids already at Pawtucket do 1st and the FO sees him as a BP/long guy moreso than they do Workman.
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Post by zil on Aug 5, 2014 0:44:43 GMT -5
I don't know that Workman has earned a rotation spot. He's been fairly up and down.
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Post by mredsox89 on Aug 5, 2014 0:51:20 GMT -5
I don't think Workman has necessarily earned a rotation spot, but I think he's at worst put himself in a position to be in the bullpen in 2015. The upside on the rest of the younger arms is far higher, and that's what the team needs at this point. I don't think he will start 2015 in the rotation, but on the roster, in the easy spot start situation
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danr
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Post by danr on Aug 5, 2014 2:05:58 GMT -5
There is no such thing as muscle memory! Muscles are stupid, and do what they are told by the central nervous system. This is nothing like the "yips" in which the sympathetic nervous system interrupts the normal signaling of the cortical spinal pathway. He has altered his mechanics because he is afraid of injury, and he knows exactly what has happened but can't say it without it leading to an upheaval. It is mental but not the "yips" and does not appear to be a mood disorder like anxiety. You took what I wrote too literally. Of course, the brain controls the muscles, but that control can be trained so that there is very quick reaction to certain stimuli. I also did not say it was the yips, just that it reminded me of them. How do you know he altered his mechanics because he is afraid of injury? I think his performance belies that. If he made an alteration, would it not be consistent? Instead, he is all over the place, with a different delivery for every pitch. It seems tome what he is doing now is more likely to cause injury than to avoid it.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Aug 5, 2014 8:18:58 GMT -5
There is no such thing as muscle memory! Muscles are stupid, and do what they are told by the central nervous system. This is nothing like the "yips" in which the sympathetic nervous system interrupts the normal signaling of the cortical spinal pathway. He has altered his mechanics because he is afraid of injury, and he knows exactly what has happened but can't say it without it leading to an upheaval. It is mental but not the "yips" and does not appear to be a mood disorder like anxiety. My own experience in the biological sciences for 30+ years led me to the conclusion that there is enormous intra-species variation. We are not all the same, in our reaction time, our healing powers, the imperviousness to pain, and so on. That makes me reluctant to speak in generalities. That said, I see your point on Buchholz. Perhaps what I perceive as messed up mechanics is really about his searching for a different arm slot or release point. He really is all over the map with that stuff.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Aug 5, 2014 13:58:36 GMT -5
Obviously we already have an impressive stockpile of arms in the high minors, but apparently the Miami Marlins just DFA'd a 23 year old former first round draft pick who in 78 MLB innings this season posted a FIP of 4 and an XFIP just under.
I think that its safe to say that the future ace Jacob Turner train has been derailed, but there is a lot of talent there that is backed up by some moderate recent success. Would it make sense to attempt to acquire him for ptbnl and add him in the mix for the rest of the season?
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Post by scottysmalls on Aug 5, 2014 14:11:29 GMT -5
Seems pretty unlikely that Turner will clear the entire national league unclaimed, and even if he did doesn't really seem to make a lot of sense for the Sox to give up a ton to acquire him given the plethora of young, unproven arms they already have.
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Post by moonstone2 on Aug 5, 2014 14:30:40 GMT -5
Obviously we already have an impressive stockpile of arms in the high minors, but apparently the Miami Marlins just DFA'd a 23 year old former first round draft pick who in 78 MLB innings this season posted a FIP of 4 and an XFIP just under. I think that its safe to say that the future ace Jacob Turner train has been derailed, but there is a lot of talent there that is backed up by some moderate recent success. Would it make sense to attempt to acquire him for ptbnl and add him in the mix for the rest of the season? I'd do that but I would think that the Cubs or Phillies are going to end up with him. Worst case scenario you cut him over the winter if he's no good. Probably worth sending either Workman or Webster back for.
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Post by xanderbogaerts2 on Aug 5, 2014 15:11:01 GMT -5
However it ends up this season, RDLR and Workman have earned the right to be in the rotation going forward into 2015. Those are the only 2 (meaning Webster) that have put solid starts on the board, something Webster has failed to do in any of his, spread over 2 seasons. I'd like to see Ranaudo get more, sooner rather than later, tho it seems his will be later on during the season, hopefully he gets more than just 2-3 in September when RDLR hits his innings limit. I don't think Workman should be in the rotation from the playoffs last year and the SSS this year I think he should be a 7-8th inning guy.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Aug 5, 2014 15:14:34 GMT -5
Seems pretty unlikely that Turner will clear the entire national league unclaimed, and even if he did doesn't really seem to make a lot of sense for the Sox to give up a ton to acquire him given the plethora of young, unproven arms they already have. It is certainly possible that he does not get to us, but there is no way that whoever ends up grabbing him will need to give that much in ways of talent to acquire him. I'm thinking that at most, he could be had for someone like Sean Coyle.
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Post by xanderbogaerts2 on Aug 5, 2014 15:22:30 GMT -5
no way Cubs don't make a claim on him
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