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Post by jdb on Jul 26, 2014 17:29:35 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 26, 2014 20:03:54 GMT -5
A comical aspect of the workout was the way the “handlers” treated Castillo, toweling him off after every five swings, offering him water every few seconds and even using towels to fan him. At one point, one of his handlers actually tied his shoes for him. Castillo seemed to think of all of this was essential, changing shirts for every exercise and switching shoes, too. Apparently, his fielding shoes are not his hitting shoes. SMH
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,962
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Post by jimoh on Jul 26, 2014 20:06:18 GMT -5
Key quote from Sox' perspective:
“He has a 50 arm,” said one scout. “It’s an average big league arm. He could be used in all three outfield spots in a pinch, but his arm plays more like a left fielder.”
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 26, 2014 21:01:06 GMT -5
His arm is average and best in LF. I'm not overwhelmed by the bat - I'll pass, unless he comes super cheap, which I doubt.
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Post by soxfanatic on Jul 27, 2014 8:19:02 GMT -5
Ken Davidoff on Castillo: The 27-year-old showed off impressive power and speed and sparked speculation that he could match the $42 million Yasiel Puig received from the Dodgers two years ago, if not be as an impactful a player as Puig. The Yankees sent four representatives. The Red Sox sent five. The Red Sox’s quintet featured vice president of player personnel Allard Baird and special assignment scout Galen Carr. nypost.com/2014/07/26/cuban-defector-impresses-yanks-host/
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Post by Guidas on Jul 27, 2014 9:39:16 GMT -5
From the same piece:
Then he took batting practice, showing off prodigious power to all fields. Two of his homers cleared the scoreboard in left field. An opposite-field blast landed on the third level of a parking garage in right field. He didn’t fare as well against a “live” pitcher throwing to a catcher, hitting just one homer, yet he already had made his presence felt.
This will be interesting to watch. As always, we need to see if Jobu allows him to hit the curveball (or the slider).
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Post by godot on Jul 27, 2014 10:40:54 GMT -5
Real curious how Sox proceed in this market. I am wondering whether they will allow themselves to get into a bidding war with this player. They are sending enough scouts to watch him, and there is a need. JH could blow anyone out of the water if he wants. For many reasons JH may see this player pool as a viable source of players, even more so that free agency and the draft. Have been critical of some of his policies, but the dude can think and see ahead.
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Post by jdb on Jul 27, 2014 11:06:01 GMT -5
Do we have an idea of when he will sign? I wonder what our scouts thought of his arm and if it's playable in RF.
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Post by redsox1534 on Jul 27, 2014 11:42:01 GMT -5
This has all the markings of a stupid overpay knee jerk overreaction to having not signed one or more of Cespedes/Puig/Abreu. I absolutely agree. Guys gonna be overpaid. With all the success of the highly paid Cubans I think sooner then later well start seeing some who arnt worth the money or a starting spot. Thomas and Castillo will be overpaid and wont live up to the expectations. Like Castillos chances of succeeding more then Thomas ( who is Willy Mo Pena 2.0) If Alfredo Despaigne comes over id pay for him.
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Post by oilcansman on Jul 27, 2014 12:30:04 GMT -5
This has all the markings of a stupid overpay knee jerk overreaction to having not signed one or more of Cespedes/Puig/Abreu. I recall all three of those players were considered overpays when they signed. People were amazed at the contracts. Now each contract is team friendly.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 27, 2014 13:23:43 GMT -5
This has all the markings of a stupid overpay knee jerk overreaction to having not signed one or more of Cespedes/Puig/Abreu. I recall all three of those players were considered overpays when they signed. People were amazed at the contracts. Now each contract is team friendly. True but the scouting reports on this guy project a much less talented player. Yeah he is Cuban and he is a free agent, but that doesn't mean you write a blank check to sign him. I would drop out once the bidding goes beyond 5 years and $ 20 million.
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Post by godot on Jul 27, 2014 13:38:00 GMT -5
This has all the markings of a stupid overpay knee jerk overreaction to having not signed one or more of Cespedes/Puig/Abreu. I absolutely agree. Guys gonna be overpaid. With all the success of the highly paid Cubans I think sooner then later well start seeing some who arnt worth the money or a starting spot. Thomas and Castillo will be overpaid and wont live up to the expectations. Like Castillos chances of succeeding more then Thomas ( who is Willy Mo Pena 2.0) If Alfredo Despaigne comes over id pay for him. Don't worry. JH is one guy who will not overpay or act rashly. Trust the scouts opinion of these players. There is a logic to focusing on Cuba and also Japan. There are good athletes there and baseball is the focus, and the leagues in some ways function as a minor league system. The players who leave usually are fairly developed and thus to a large degree are easier to project than say high school and even college kids. Again, it comes down to judgment as to what players will be useful, and it seems many teams can afford to enter this market. The Sox are one.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 27, 2014 14:10:40 GMT -5
If Alfredo Despaigne comes over id pay for him. Don't worry. JH is one guy who will not overpay or act rashly. Trust the scouts opinion of these players. There is a logic to focusing on Cuba and also Japan. There are good athletes there and baseball is the focus, and the leagues in some ways function as a minor league system. The players who leave usually are fairly developed and thus to a large degree are easier to project than say high school and even college kids. Again, it comes down to judgment as to what players will be useful, and it seems many teams can afford to enter this market. The Sox are one. It's almost impossible to project any player by watching him in one workout. You have about 1000 times more information on prospects. Can you please stop obsessing over JH?
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Post by godot on Jul 27, 2014 14:46:35 GMT -5
No, maybe you haven't been around players and scouts. Good scouts do not take long to assess, even a workout. Seen the process (and results) in action. It comes from experience and processing skills. JH is the boss and sets the p;policies. And don't tell me what to think or say. Only my mother could do that.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 27, 2014 14:50:25 GMT -5
A player can have a better or worse day than normal on any given day. Scouts don't figure that out without seeing a lot of days.
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Post by godot on Jul 27, 2014 15:32:45 GMT -5
Again, seems that you haven't experienced scouts and scouting in action for any serious lengths of time or just plain stubborn and throw things out there (go for it). You would be surprised what a good scout can determine even by just looking at a player. Besides, the point is what they can assess in very short time in a show workout. Whether a player has an off day does invalidate that, and if they do have an "off day", it is rather obvious. The key here is a good scout. Not every scout has these skills.
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Post by sammo420 on Jul 27, 2014 15:50:20 GMT -5
If scouting is such an exact science then why did so many teams pass on drafting Mike Trout? How many first round draft picks never see the bigs? All this is educated guessing and not exact science.
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Post by jmei on Jul 27, 2014 16:13:10 GMT -5
Even beyond the fact that scouts only get to see him in person this one time, my bigger worry is that they only see him versus very sketchy competition. Someone like Wily Mo Pena or Will Middlebrooks would look great against some random undrafted pitcher, but you have little idea how well that holds up against better competition. The same is true for defense or baserunning-- he never really had the quality of his routes or the full extent of his range tested, and scouts didn't see him run the bases. You can try to project how his 60 time translates to outfield range or baserunning speed, but at best it's still an imprecise estimate. Under these circumstances, even the best scout would admit that there's a lot of guesswork involved. That's why Cuban players who sign based on tryouts alone are especially risky.
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Post by godot on Jul 27, 2014 16:28:08 GMT -5
We are getting a bit off subject, but good discussion. What you guys say makes sense but again, have just seen too many times good scouts make accurate assessments on very short encounters. Granted, not all have these skills, and it comes from experience, excellent processing and visual skills, and knowing a few things about baseball and athletic skills. It is the same as an experienced and knowledgeable jazz listener can identity a good player or unique sound in just a few notes ( I have had that experience, just as I have limited direct experience , much more limited, on player assessment ). Agree though that to be on the safe side, it is best to obtain multiple views. Still, you do not need a computer and data sheets to make these judgments, although they do help and perhaps verify. In all due respects, I probably have different experiences and views of knowledge (intuition versus anayltic intelligence and verification) than you guys, but I see your points. With regards to scouting being a "science" as I describe it, not saying that; rather, a high success rate. I can see the reasons for statistical approaches, but these are tools, and not ruling out cross checking. This subject is fascinating, but again off topic in some ways
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 28, 2014 8:02:39 GMT -5
You've probably seen scouts guessing right. I mean you have any data for a high success rate? You keep track of each scout's hits and misses?
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Post by okin15 on Jul 28, 2014 8:24:20 GMT -5
Again, seems that you haven't experienced scouts and scouting in action for any serious lengths of time or just plain stubborn and throw things out there (go for it). You would be surprised what a good scout can determine even by just looking at a player. Besides, the point is what they can assess in very short time in a show workout. Whether a player has an off day does invalidate that, and if they do have an "off day", it is rather obvious. The key here is a good scout. Not every scout has these skills. WTF? How can you tell if a guy has an off day if you've never seen him before or after? I don't doubt that a scout can asses the quality of a guy's day pretty quickly, but without multiple looks, the scout would have no idea whether that's a typical day or not. Then there's all the issues that JMei mentioned about not seeing good pitching, not seeing game speed routes or breaks, not seeing base-running, etc.
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alnipper
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Living the dream
Posts: 618
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Post by alnipper on Jul 28, 2014 10:06:43 GMT -5
I would imagine they have film or videos on this guy.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 28, 2014 10:58:48 GMT -5
I would imagine they have film or videos on this guy. Highlights are about it, which aren't worth a whole lot.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 28, 2014 12:15:56 GMT -5
Well there are the international tourney's he's played in, all of which are heavily scouted. He's 27 so he's been to enough of those where there's at least some reports and data on how he fared vs. whom. Also, Cuba still plays in the All Caribbean series every year, right? Not sure if he played in that, but it's heavily scouted as well. So there actually may be a decent body of work to evaluate.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 28, 2014 12:33:44 GMT -5
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