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Post by amfox1 on Aug 3, 2014 14:40:33 GMT -5
Let's stick to Castillo and not broaden it out to the 2015 roster. We have a thread for that discussion.
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Post by bluechip on Aug 3, 2014 15:29:33 GMT -5
I don't think he's saying he's out of shape. I believe he's hinting that your boy might have gotten a little artificial help in putting 20lb of muscle on If so, then it's a pretty shameful hint. These Cuban players grow up living in miserable impoverished conditions. They get out of there and are introduced to things they've never seen before but that we take for granted. Most of us have a gym and a nutritional supply store within a mile or two of where we live and yet how many of us are fat, out of shape couch potatoes? An immigrant arrives here and sees those things as an opportunity to better himself. I am not implying that Castillo is or isn't using PEDs, but do you honestly believe that the Cuban government does not give players on its national team access to weight lifting equipment, personal trainers, and nutritionists? While Castillo might or might not have grown up in lousy conditions, as a pro baseball player, who is on the national team, I doubt that he was put on a weight training program for the first time AFTER he defected.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 3, 2014 15:41:25 GMT -5
It is all about adding as many assets as you can. I am all for signing the guy if he'll improve our organizational talent. If you sign him for more than he's worth, he's a liability, not an asset.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 3, 2014 15:50:48 GMT -5
There is no evidence of PEDs, so let's not imply otherwise.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,729
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Post by nomar on Aug 3, 2014 17:41:13 GMT -5
I bet he goes to Detroit. I'd pass on signing him too. He isn't a sure thing, I could see the bidding pushing his price over his value. There likely will be better places to spend (Masterson and he could be similar price for example).
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Post by SoxInTx on Aug 3, 2014 23:32:28 GMT -5
I am in on signing Castillo. Fact is Red Sox OF is a mess with no immediate prospects waiting to be called up. But I am sure some team will overpay.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 4, 2014 0:21:33 GMT -5
I'm 100% behind the Red Sox bidding what they estimate his value to be. I seriously doubt if they consider it a highest bid situation and I seriously doubt if Abreau was an outbid situation. That logic is flawed. Having an additional valuable asset is not flawed logic. If we do sign him, other corresponding moves can be made this off season as long as we don't exceed the cap this season.
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Post by zil on Aug 4, 2014 0:25:18 GMT -5
I am in on signing Castillo. Fact is Red Sox OF is a mess with no immediate prospects waiting to be called up. But I am sure some team will overpay. Are we considering Betts an outfield prospect at this point? If Betts get the job in CF, then where would Castillo even slot in?
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Post by xanderbogaerts2 on Aug 4, 2014 0:41:10 GMT -5
I am in on signing Castillo. Fact is Red Sox OF is a mess with no immediate prospects waiting to be called up. But I am sure some team will overpay. Are we considering Betts an outfield prospect at this point? If Betts get the job in CF, then where would Castillo even slot in? He could be a trade chip or we could try him in the infield either SS or 3B.
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Post by burythehammer on Aug 4, 2014 4:31:18 GMT -5
Let's stick to Castillo and not broaden it out to the 2015 roster. We have a thread for that discussion. What else is there to discuss exactly with regards to a player none of us have seen play and have no meaningful statistics on? He's ostensibly major league ready, so how he hits into our 2015 roster is sort of a crucial part of the decision to him.
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Post by bluechip on Aug 4, 2014 5:03:53 GMT -5
I am not implying that Castillo is or isn't using PEDs, but do you honestly believe that the Cuban government does not give players on its national team access to weight lifting equipment, personal trainers, and nutritionists? While Castillo might or might not have grown up in lousy conditions, as a pro baseball player, who is on the national team, I doubt that he was put on a weight training program for the first time AFTER he defected. The man hasn't played a single game in the majors yet and you're invoking the term PEDs in reference to him. If you want to rationalize the Red Sox not signing him, then just say "We shouldn't sign him." You don't have to defame the man in the process. I specifically said I wasn't implying Castillo was using PEDs. I took issue with the post saying that the Cuban team does not have access to trainers or nutritionists.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Aug 4, 2014 5:57:13 GMT -5
I love the sign him because he's Cuban mentality. Yeah, that's the ticket. See. Dalier Hinojosa.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 4, 2014 14:30:47 GMT -5
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Post by joshv02 on Aug 4, 2014 14:49:25 GMT -5
(I know it is technical, so apologies in advance. The CBA does not allow you to reach an agreement to not offer a qualified offer. However, there is no express prohibition on agreeing not to offer arb. So, it isn't that there is a "no QO" agreement in Cespedes -- or in Castillo when he is signed -- but only that players who have less than 6 years of service time cannot be offer a qualifying offer.)
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Post by klostrophobic on Aug 4, 2014 15:02:23 GMT -5
I'd be fine with it, but there would have to be some serious trades between now and opening day. Betts/Nava/Bradley/Castillo/Cespedes/Craig/Victorino is a pretty crowded OF with no consensus as to who will actually end up with playing time. And that's without Hassan/Brentz/Cecchini/Coyle/etc. making a push mid-season. So if they think Castillo can be a 2-win player or so it's worth it since it's just money, but there have to be 3 outfielders shipped out before April 1st.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 4, 2014 15:09:28 GMT -5
This signing makes no sense at this point at this much money. But not matter what we do, there will be a lot of complaining. It's a lose-lose.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 4, 2014 15:20:09 GMT -5
(I know it is technical, so apologies in advance. The CBA does not allow you to reach an agreement to not offer a qualified offer. However, there is no express prohibition on agreeing not to offer arb. So, it isn't that there is a "no QO" agreement in Cespedes -- or in Castillo when he is signed -- but only that players who have less than 6 years of service time cannot be offer a qualifying offer.) Technically, in Cespedes' case, he has to be unconditionally released five days after the 2015 season unless he has signed an extension. I would expect the same for Castillo.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 4, 2014 15:28:10 GMT -5
That still seems a little bit wonky under the CBA, doesn't it? It's hard to see the player's union allowing international free agents to have this extra benefit. If it's allowed, then why isn't every free agent on a one-year bumper contract demanding the same stipulation?
And I know it got through on Cespedes's contract, but any workarounds like this always just seem to me to be on the shady side - exactly the sort of thing that the union should disallow.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 4, 2014 15:47:09 GMT -5
That still seems a little bit wonky under the CBA, doesn't it? It's hard to see the player's union allowing international free agents to have this extra benefit. If it's allowed, then why isn't every free agent on a one-year bumper contract demanding the same stipulation? And I know it got through on Cespedes's contract, but any workarounds like this always just seem to me to be on the shady side - exactly the sort of thing that the union should disallow. Why would the players union want to disallow any player reaching free agency faster? - Simply to create an even playing field between American born players and Latin American players? In fact, since when is the players union concerned about "fairness" between any two groups of players. Raising the minimum salary hasn't been a tent pole issue for the union in ages. I don't see Cespedes' contract as anything that can't be replicated. And yet they can't do the same thing with qualifying offers? Makes no sense.
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Post by ethanbein on Aug 4, 2014 16:09:18 GMT -5
Cespedes has to be non-tendered after his pre-arb years, instead of being eligible for arbitration. Theoretically a prospect could do that here too, I believe, though it wouldn't make sense it most cases. It wouldn't apply for US free agents because they've already had their arb years.
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Post by ethanbein on Aug 4, 2014 20:37:11 GMT -5
Cespedes has to be non-tendered after his pre-arb years, instead of being eligible for arbitration. Theoretically a prospect could do that here too, I believe, though it wouldn't make sense it most cases. It wouldn't apply for US free agents because they've already had their arb years. This is similar to when Boras was pushing for his drafted clients to be immediately placed on teams' 40 man rosters. However, that stunt stands a lesser chance of flying where a team receives a compensatory pick in the following draft for not signing a draft pick in the current year. That being said, I'm fairly certain he still got away with it with both Strasburg and Harper. Then again, those were extraordinary draft picks, even by the standard of #1 overall picks. Yep, that's not a bad comparison. The 6 years of team control is arbitrary and if players have any sort of leverage teams are willing to sacrifice it in unconventional ways. The latest CBA did rule out major league contracts for drafted players to avoid rushing, so no more of the Strasburg/Harper situation. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next CBA, teams can't include clauses similar to the one in the Cespedes contract.
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Post by jmei on Aug 4, 2014 21:06:36 GMT -5
The six years of team control is certainly not arbitrary for traditional first-year players. The owners fought hard for it after the reserve clause was overturned and free agency was instituted back in 1975, and it hasn't changed much since then. The rules are relaxed for veteran IFAs, but I don't think they'd be willing to do so for draftees.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 4, 2014 21:15:21 GMT -5
The no-arb portion of the contract doesn't surprise me, it's the playing around with the Qualifying offer. That's not an draftee vs. amateur international FA issue, it's a veteran player vs. international FA issue. And in general, when it comes to union enforcement of rules, those established within the union aren't going to take kindly to those entering it being given a pass. The idea that Cespedes can slide without a QO while, say, Nelson Cruz doesn't is a bit unfair. And yes, a lot of stuff in the CBA is unfair, but this is unfair in the opposite way from how most things in the baseball player hierarchy are unfair.
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Post by mjammz on Aug 9, 2014 19:18:14 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 9, 2014 19:57:32 GMT -5
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