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8/21 ML Gameday Thread: Owens & Rodriguez headline the slate
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Post by chavopepe2 on Aug 21, 2014 19:28:59 GMT -5
The development of the low-minors hitters is a huge positive this season. Specifically Margot, Rijo, and Devers. That was the biggest weakness in the system going into the year and the top three guys all took significant steps forward. Add in Chavis from the draft and that weakness is now a real strength in the system. The shocker to me, if there is one, has been the progression of the system's catchers. Blair, Weems, Romanski and Bethea all have done extremely well after their promotions and we added 5 of 6 from the draft. Our youngest player is a catcher who is still 16. I'm still skeptical there is anything to any of those guys. Blair was a guy that intrigued me early in his career and Weems was a reasonably high pick, but I really don't see any of those guys as likely major leaguers. That doesn't take anything away from their production this year, which has been strong. But every year we see guys produce for sustained stretches that aren't able to translate that as they get close to the majors. I think that is what we have here. I am however very intrigued by Maurico Dubon. There is something about a potentially slick fielding shortstop that puts the ball in play every time he swings that intrigues me.
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Post by quintanariffic on Aug 21, 2014 19:36:58 GMT -5
Totally agree, chavo. I think the one possible exception there is Blair. Good pedigree. Switched to new position. May be "figuring it out", or could just be a hot stretch vs. younger competition. Will be really interesting to see if he can maintain this level of production in the upper minors. If so, and he's considered to have decent defensive skills, I could see him having a career. The rest of those guys will be out of baseball in 2-3 years.
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Post by widewordofsport on Aug 21, 2014 19:57:02 GMT -5
In a few years we'll have some really good hitters at AA/AAA, and we'll all be sad about how the Red Sox can't develop pitchers when Smith/Callahan etc are the best we have.
(Hopefully not, I'm intrigued by a few guys this year, but it's obvious that A-/A/A+ the hitters are ahead of the pitchers right now)
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Post by widewordofsport on Aug 21, 2014 20:09:52 GMT -5
Xander will be fine, but I can't wait to hear the 'reason' for his struggles at the end of the year. He hasn't even had a little hot stretch all summer. I still believe in JBJ, never really did Cecchini. Never really bought into Betts as a draft pick (never forget he was the consolation signing for Senquez Golson) but the few at bats I've seen from him at the MLB level I liked. He's also the athlete/exciting player that every opposing team's announcers seem to think JBJ is (young+black=speedster). Looked really comfortable with the single up the middle off the two strike count last night.
That said, if you bet which of the four would have the highest OBP if they all made the team out of camp in 2015, I could be convinced for any of them.
Anyone want to buy stock in Marrero's bat right now? 0-3 tonight, and 17.2% career K rate in the minors. Over nearly the same PAs, Jose Iglesias was 14.9 in the minors (16.8 in the majors)
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 21, 2014 20:16:40 GMT -5
The shocker to me, if there is one, has been the progression of the system's catchers. Blair, Weems, Romanski and Bethea all have done extremely well after their promotions and we added 5 of 6 from the draft. Our youngest player is a catcher who is still 16. I'm still skeptical there is anything to any of those guys. Blair was a guy that intrigued me early in his career and Weems was a reasonably high pick, but I really don't see any of those guys as likely major leaguers. That doesn't take anything away from their production this year, which has been strong. But every year we see guys produce for sustained stretches that aren't able to translate that as they get close to the majors. I think that is what we have here. I am however very intrigued by Maurico Dubon. There is something about a potentially slick fielding shortstop that puts the ball in play every time he swings that intrigues me. Agree to some extent, especially with the general concept and just pure prospect odds and the likelihood that they will all make it is pretty much zero but 1 or 2 aren't out of the question. The four I named in particular have hope but for different reasons. Blair as you know, is a convert. I'm pretty sure that the Sox never would have made the conversion if he didn't have the basic athleticism and tools to succeed defensively. For him there's likely the most hope. Weems had a decent pedigree and a cannon for an arm. In the games I've seen him, he takes command of the game and looks to have good mechanics. If the bat comes around, he could also be special. He's still young and pretty skinny for a catcher. The other two, Romanski and Bethea are college defensive catchers. They weren't expected to hit, for those two, the odds are slim that they will hit at the upper levels but good to see that there's at least life.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Aug 21, 2014 20:17:33 GMT -5
Really nice to see the two big lefties keep the pitch counts down. Owens threw 96 pitches through 8. Rodriguez threw 91 through 7. Both got a lot of ground outs and limited the walks.
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 21, 2014 20:19:15 GMT -5
Anyone want to buy stock in Marrero's bat right now? 0-3 tonight, and 17.2% career K rate in the minors. Over nearly the same PAs, Jose Iglesias was 14.9 in the minors (16.8 in the majors) That's not a fair comp at all, as Marrero has much better BB% and has a higher ISO this year than basically Iglesias ever did except for some 50 or so PA's at single A. I get that it's nice to compare them, but other than the slick fielding there really isn't much anything there to it.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 21, 2014 20:30:42 GMT -5
Owens, Rodriguez, Mercedes all with excellent outings. Then there's Buttrey.
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Post by widewordofsport on Aug 21, 2014 20:39:46 GMT -5
The comparison is that Iglesias may be a little better with the glove (some say not by much), but will either hit enough to make it. Marrero has more power, but doesn't make as much contact as you'd like to see, you can dismiss the K rate, but my point isn't to compare them line by line, but just to ask, will either hit.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Aug 21, 2014 20:39:55 GMT -5
Walk off homer for Corey Brown in the Pawsox game.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 21, 2014 20:46:32 GMT -5
Walk off homer for Corey Brown in the Pawsox game. And 9th inning Miller HR in a 1-0 Portland win. No last minute heroics but Salem won 2-1. Of note, Margot with his 40th SB of the year. 40/10 is rare company. Greenville down 12-0 after 7. Lowell up 4-2 after 7.
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Post by soxfan06 on Aug 21, 2014 20:49:26 GMT -5
Ed Rodriguez since we got him: 24.1 IP, 18 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 6 BB, 28 K
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 21, 2014 20:53:43 GMT -5
A 17.2% K rate isn't bad at all. Iglesias's contact rates were excellent -- it was the quality of the contact that was holding him back.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 21, 2014 21:00:41 GMT -5
The comparison is that Iglesias may be a little better with the glove (some say not by much), but will either hit enough to make it. Marrero has more power, but doesn't make as much contact as you'd like to see, you can dismiss the K rate, but my point isn't to compare them line by line, but just to ask, will either hit. If you take a closer look at Marrero you will have a different perspective of the K rates. That's the area he's made the most gains in this year. He started April thru mid-May with horrific rates then started making significant gains month by month until he was promoted, at the time of his promotion, he was making excellent contact. He only had one 10 game period during that stretch where he was nursing a jammed wrist where his K's rose. After promotion, he was off to a bad start in K's but has settled back in now. He has been taking quality ABs since mid-May. He is slumping though, as is Swihart. Ed Rodriguez since we got him: 24.1 IP, 18 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 6 BB, 28 K He's also had an outstanding GO/FO ratio. Today 9/3.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 21, 2014 21:58:36 GMT -5
Drive lost 12-0. Perez pitched decent, Mars 2/4. Lowell in an exciting game, 6-5 10 inning walkoff. Doubon with the game winning single. Lowell Spinners ? lowellspinners 13m #WALKOFFCITY Two nights in a row, four in their last six wins at LeLacheur Park. It's a 6-5 final on @mauriciodubon10's RBI single.
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Post by taftreign on Aug 21, 2014 23:12:54 GMT -5
Ed Rodriguez since we got him: 24.1 IP, 18 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 6 BB, 28 K After each additional start it only increases my belief that this could be the best trade Ben has ever and may ever make. Now in Baltimore's defense if Miller anchors the Oriole bullpen into a World Series appearance and/or win then it shouldn't matter nearly as much to their fans what was given up.
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,418
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Post by ianrs on Aug 21, 2014 23:30:33 GMT -5
Good to see JBJ go 2/4 with a HR today. Rooting for the kid to get back on track - he's just so fun to watch defensively it would be a shame if he didn't end up an MLB regular.
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Post by zil on Aug 22, 2014 0:26:52 GMT -5
Are the homers Owens is giving up since reaching AAA something to be concerned about?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 22, 2014 1:12:46 GMT -5
Are the homers Owens is giving up since reaching AAA something to be concerned about? Not to me because he has only given up 3 in 25IP, although not good, not enough to be a concern at this point. I did notice a few strange things about Henry's HRs though. He's a low WHIP guy yet, a disproportionately high number have come with runners on which might signal that he makes more mistakes pitching from the stretch. Also, of his career 18 HRs, 11 have come in 5 games and only 7 were the lone HR in a game. Not sure what that means but it's a different distribution than I'd expect for a generally low HR pitcher.
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Post by cologneredsox on Aug 22, 2014 4:25:50 GMT -5
Are the homers Owens is giving up since reaching AAA something to be concerned about? Not to me because he has only given up 3 in 25IP, although not good, not enough to be a concern at this point. I did notice a few strange things about Henry's HRs though. He's a low WHIP guy yet, a disproportionately high number have come with runners on which might signal that he makes more mistakes pitching from the stretch. Also, of his career 18 HRs, 11 have come in 5 games and only 7 were the lone HR in a game. Not sure what that means but it's a different distribution than I'd expect for a generally low HR pitcher. There could be something behind this, if fixed, he could get even better. Owens still doesn't stop to intrigue me. And our shipment from Baltimore is not far behind!
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 22, 2014 5:17:52 GMT -5
Not to me because he has only given up 3 in 25IP, although not good, not enough to be a concern at this point. I did notice a few strange things about Henry's HRs though. He's a low WHIP guy yet, a disproportionately high number have come with runners on which might signal that he makes more mistakes pitching from the stretch. Also, of his career 18 HRs, 11 have come in 5 games and only 7 were the lone HR in a game. Not sure what that means but it's a different distribution than I'd expect for a generally low HR pitcher. There could be something behind this, if fixed, he could get even better. Owens still doesn't stop to intrigue me. And our shipment from Baltimore is not far behind! Of the 9 home runs allowed this year, only one was a solo shot. For a low WHIP pitcher, what are the odds that it's a random happening ? By contrast, Brian Johnson, also a low WHIP pitcher, has allowed 5 HRs, 4 were solos.
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Post by cologneredsox on Aug 22, 2014 5:33:07 GMT -5
There could be something behind this, if fixed, he could get even better. Owens still doesn't stop to intrigue me. And our shipment from Baltimore is not far behind! Of the 9 home runs allowed this year, only one was a solo shot. For a low WHIP pitcher, what are the odds that it's a random happening ? By contrast, Brian Johnson, also a low WHIP pitcher, has allowed 5 HRs, 4 were solos. Sounds like a new task for Eric! Gesendet von meinem iPhone mit Tapatalk
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Post by burythehammer on Aug 22, 2014 6:47:32 GMT -5
Sounds like randomness/noise.
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Post by larrycook on Aug 22, 2014 8:38:08 GMT -5
Don't look now but Owens and Barnes are starting to snap off some decent looking curve balls.
A couple of Barnes' had some real bite to them.
Should be real interesting to see how both start out next season and if it will take them a few months to command the fastball and throw the curveball for strikes. Or will be they be sharp from day 1.
Owens, Johnson and Rodriguez! Some interesting lefties coming up.
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 22, 2014 8:55:04 GMT -5
Don't look now but Owens and Barnes are starting to snap off some decent looking curve balls. A couple of Barnes' had some real bite to them. Should be real interesting to see how both start out next season and if it will take them a few months to command the fastball and throw the curveball for strikes. Or will be they be sharp from day 1. Owens, Johnson and Rodriguez! Some interesting lefties coming up. In his breakthrough 10 K game on August 2, Barnes had a tremendous curve, with which he got half of his strikeouts. Warning: that video, if you haven't seen it, is likely to lead to excessive optimism.
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