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8/26 ML Gameday Thread: Possible GCL Division Clincher
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Post by mattpicard on Aug 26, 2014 20:12:05 GMT -5
Henry Owens with another subpar outing: 6.1 IP, 8 H, 3 ER, 3 R, 4 BB, 8 K FWIW, 2 of the 8 hits were bunt singles, and another 2 were non-sharply hit ground balls that made it into the outfield. Subpar for his standards, but a quality start and not all that bad.
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Post by larrycook on Aug 26, 2014 20:41:34 GMT -5
It's the four base on balls in inly six innings that is scary.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 26, 2014 20:48:02 GMT -5
Dogs lost 4-1 Wilkerson 2/4 2B Blair 2/4 Coyle 1/4 HR Almanzar 2/2, didn't finish game, was HBP, unknown, hope he's alright, he's been on a tear.
Salem lost 5-4. Mr Hyde Mercedes showed up. See tweets <------ by Chris. Margot with 3rd SB as a SalSox. Asuaje 0/1 with 3 BB.
Greenville won 2-1. Combined 2 hitter (but 6 BBs) for McGrath and Garcia. They combined for 9K.
Spinners lost 5-0. No last minute heroics tonight. Jerez with 3 solid innings relief, 3H, 5K 0BB
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Post by RedSoxStats on Aug 26, 2014 20:56:34 GMT -5
Was listening, Almanzar got hit in the right thumb.
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Post by soxfan06 on Aug 26, 2014 21:10:41 GMT -5
Cecchini started the day out nice, but ended up with 3Ks to go with his 2 hits.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Aug 26, 2014 21:42:33 GMT -5
Henry Owens Splitts: Vs RHH: 5/29 BB/K Vs LHH: 5/6 BB/K Changup ,as advertised, is elite but the kid needs an effective breaking ball!
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Post by larrycook on Aug 26, 2014 22:17:31 GMT -5
Henry Owens Splitts: Vs RHH: 5/29 BB/K Vs LHH: 5/6 BB/K Changup ,as advertised, is elite but the kid needs an effective breaking ball! That's why I think he needs a cutter.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 26, 2014 22:19:32 GMT -5
Henry Owens Splitts: Vs RHH: 5/29 BB/K Vs LHH: 5/6 BB/K Changup ,as advertised, is elite but the kid needs an effective breaking ball! If the Sox take the same development route as Ranaudo, they will add a fourth pitch next year, Barnes as well. ADD: They might also introduce a 4th pitch to Rodriguez. Johnson and Diaz already throw 4 pitches. Haley I think they will wait.
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Post by taftreign on Aug 26, 2014 22:46:05 GMT -5
Ben Cherington is in Frederick. My guess is he was excited that Chih-Hsien Chiang is starting for Frederick. I was at the game and noticed Cherington as well. He was sitting with two others who if I had to guess appeared to be Jared Banner, Asst Director of Player Personnel, and Duncan Webb, Asst Director of Player Development. Is it common for the front office to get a first hand look at each minor league team to end the season for the purposes of off season planning, ie potential trades or setting the tentative minor league assignments entering a new season, or is it most likely they are present with attention to one or two specific players?
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Post by larrycook on Aug 26, 2014 22:46:46 GMT -5
Henry Owens Splitts: Vs RHH: 5/29 BB/K Vs LHH: 5/6 BB/K Changup ,as advertised, is elite but the kid needs an effective breaking ball! If the Sox take the same development route as Ranaudo, they will add a fourth pitch next year, Barnes as well. ADD: They might also introduce a 4th pitch to Rodriguez. Johnson and Diaz already throw 4 pitches. Haley I think they will wait. What is ranaudo's fourth pitch?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 26, 2014 23:15:50 GMT -5
Ben Cherington is in Frederick. My guess is he was excited that Chih-Hsien Chiang is starting for Frederick. I was at the game and noticed Cherington as well. He was sitting with two others who if I had to guess appeared to be Jared Banner, Asst Director of Player Personnel, and Duncan Webb, Asst Director of Player Development. Is it common for the front office to get a first hand look at each minor league team to end the season for the purposes of off season planning, ie potential trades or setting the tentative minor league assignments entering a new season, or is it most likely they are present with attention to one or two specific players? That was Webb sitting next to him. I didn't think the gentleman behind them was a Red Sox guy, and Banner isn't necessarily a guy that'd do a road trip to see Salem, from what I understand his role to be. I could be very wrong though. And yes, it's normal for the GM to see a team first-hand at least once a year. Cherington hadn't been to see Salem yet (likely because there was nobody to see, tbh). I don't think it a coincidence that he waited to take his Salem trip until Margot was there.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 27, 2014 0:42:31 GMT -5
Can we stand the tease of yet another written-off disappointment suddenly showing signs of life?
On August 15 Jose Vinicio was hitting .151 / .192 / .164, in just 77 PA at Salem. Excluding his GCL rehab, he had just one 2-hit game out of his 24 played, and just 1 XBH.
He's now had 2 hits in 6 of his last 7 games, with 2 2B and a 3B, going .444 / .429 / .593 in 28 PA. You don't need math to know that the difference between that and his previous games isn't random.
Remember, he's 21 in high-A, perfectly age-appropriate. It was really only last year that his bat didn't project as OK for a SS, just a bit below average, and both BP and Clay Davenport have him as essentially average for making plays at SS. He's still a prospect.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 27, 2014 0:43:33 GMT -5
If the Sox take the same development route as Ranaudo, they will add a fourth pitch next year, Barnes as well. ADD: They might also introduce a 4th pitch to Rodriguez. Johnson and Diaz already throw 4 pitches. Haley I think they will wait. What is ranaudo's fourth pitch? Ranaudo has been working on a slider, he started throwing it in games around June. He doesn't throw it a lot yet but usually gets in a few every game but didn't throw one in either of his Boston appearances. He's also said that he throws it a lot in his between games bullpen sessions. There's a lot about it in this Speier piece (linked earlier): fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/06/14/finishing-touches-anthony-ranaudo-hopes-tweaked-mechanics-new-pitch-position-him-for-breakthrough/ “Having a slider going right to left with a little bit of depth would be good, rather than just a 12-6 breaking ball,” Ranaudo said. “Sometimes, with a curveball, hitters can see that a little bit early and they can spit on and be able to decipher if it’s going to be a strike or a ball earlier than they can a late-breaking slider. That’s more of what I’m going for, a cutter-type slider. Something that will be able to generate more swings and contact if I’m behind in counts.”He also recently made a small delivery tweak that he hopes will allow him to command his fastball better. None of these guys are finished products yet.
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Post by burythehammer on Aug 27, 2014 6:14:56 GMT -5
Vinicio never walks, strikes out a ton, and has zero power. This was the case even when he was putting up "acceptable" overall stats. He makes Jose Iglesias look like Barry Bonds. But I guess 7 games of BABIP luck changes that.
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Post by Jonathan Singer on Aug 27, 2014 6:19:49 GMT -5
1 good week doesn't turn Vinicio into a prospect in my eyes. He has not shown any real progress in the last couple of seasons.
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jimed14
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 27, 2014 6:43:05 GMT -5
What is ranaudo's fourth pitch? Ranaudo has been working on a slider, he started throwing it in games around June. He doesn't throw it a lot yet but usually gets in a few every game but didn't throw one in either of his Boston appearances. He's also said that he throws it a lot in his between games bullpen sessions. There's a lot about it in this Speier piece (linked earlier): fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/06/14/finishing-touches-anthony-ranaudo-hopes-tweaked-mechanics-new-pitch-position-him-for-breakthrough/ “Having a slider going right to left with a little bit of depth would be good, rather than just a 12-6 breaking ball,” Ranaudo said. “Sometimes, with a curveball, hitters can see that a little bit early and they can spit on and be able to decipher if it’s going to be a strike or a ball earlier than they can a late-breaking slider. That’s more of what I’m going for, a cutter-type slider. Something that will be able to generate more swings and contact if I’m behind in counts.”He also recently made a small delivery tweak that he hopes will allow him to command his fastball better. None of these guys are finished products yet. In that great curve ball article from a month or two ago, it said that pitchers cannot throw both a curve and a slider. It turns into a slurve. And I can't really think of an exception.
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Post by jmei on Aug 27, 2014 6:47:54 GMT -5
Ranaudo has been working on a slider, he started throwing it in games around June. He doesn't throw it a lot yet but usually gets in a few every game but didn't throw one in either of his Boston appearances. He's also said that he throws it a lot in his between games bullpen sessions. There's a lot about it in this Speier piece (linked earlier): fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/06/14/finishing-touches-anthony-ranaudo-hopes-tweaked-mechanics-new-pitch-position-him-for-breakthrough/ “Having a slider going right to left with a little bit of depth would be good, rather than just a 12-6 breaking ball,” Ranaudo said. “Sometimes, with a curveball, hitters can see that a little bit early and they can spit on and be able to decipher if it’s going to be a strike or a ball earlier than they can a late-breaking slider. That’s more of what I’m going for, a cutter-type slider. Something that will be able to generate more swings and contact if I’m behind in counts.”He also recently made a small delivery tweak that he hopes will allow him to command his fastball better. None of these guys are finished products yet. In that great curve ball article from a month or two ago, it said that pitchers cannot throw both a curve and a slider. It turns into a slurve. And I can't really think of an exception. Kershaw comes to mind immediately, and there are certainly others. But yes, it's uncommon.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Aug 27, 2014 7:15:08 GMT -5
Gerrit Cole as well I believe.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 27, 2014 8:06:43 GMT -5
In our own system, Johnson seems to do well with it but uses the curve a lot more than the slider. Diaz on the other hand seems to have slurvy issues but mostly in the games where he's mixing all 4 pitches. Maybe it's a repetitions thing, I've seen him have games where he had a sharp break slider.
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Post by charliezink16 on Aug 27, 2014 9:22:26 GMT -5
Is Vinicio still like 28 pounds? I remember how everything was supposed to come together for this $1.9mil bonus baby once he "added muscle".
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 27, 2014 10:57:34 GMT -5
Vinicio has gotten a decent bit taller, I think, but having seen him from the good seats last night, he's still skinny as a rail. Not often I say this, but there is literally no way he can play in the majors with that physique. There's a reason he's spent significant time on the DL the last two years.
I was impressed that he did put a decent charge into his flyout to center in the seventh last night. However, one of his hits last night was a good bunt. That made me want to look at his hits during this stretch:
8/17: fly ball, LF; groundball up the middle 8/19: double, line drive, RF; line drive, LF 8/22: double, fly ball, CF; bunt (also attempted to bunt the previous at-bat) 8/23: fly ball, LF; ground ball, right side 8/25: bunt; triple, fly ball, LF 8/26: line drive, LF; bunt
It's not that he's got elite speed that's leading to the bunt singles (or the XBH, to be fair), and based on what was a very good bunt single last night, my guess is that he's becoming a pretty good bunter. So while I don't think it's necesssarily BABIP noise that's led to his recent string of multi-hit games, he's not going to ever get good enough at bunting, without elite speed, to be able to bunt for singles this often in the major leagues. Heck, that probably doesn't happen with a Double-A defense. Bunting for a single after trying to do so in the previous at-bat is pretty much inexcusable unless he had some poor-field-grooming luck or something.
For me, he's a non-prospect unless his physiology changes completely.
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jimed14
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 27, 2014 11:02:14 GMT -5
Vinicio has gotten a decent bit taller, I think, but having seen him from the good seats last night, he's still skinny as a rail. Not often I say this, but there is literally no way he can play in the majors with that physique. There's a reason he's spent significant time on the DL the last two years. I was impressed that he did put a decent charge into his flyout to center in the seventh last night. However, one of his hits last night was a good bunt. That made me want to look at his hits during this stretch: 8/17: fly ball, LF; groundball up the middle 8/19: double, line drive, RF; line drive, LF 8/22: double, fly ball, CF; bunt (also attempted to bunt the previous at-bat) 8/23: fly ball, LF; ground ball, right side 8/25: bunt; triple, fly ball, LF 8/26: line drive, LF; bunt It's not that he's got elite speed that's leading to the bunt singles (or the XBH, to be fair), and based on what was a very good bunt single last night, my guess is that he's becoming a pretty good bunter. So while I don't think it's necesssarily BABIP noise that's led to his recent string of multi-hit games, he's not going to ever get good enough at bunting, without elite speed, to be able to bunt for singles this often in the major leagues. Heck, that probably doesn't happen with a Double-A defense. For me, he's a non-prospect unless his physiology changes completely. I always wondered if Iglesias could become a good enough bunter to be an average hitter. He is so quick out of the box it's crazy. And he doesn't really have elite speed either, but he is definitely elite to first.
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Post by bentossaurus on Aug 27, 2014 23:17:53 GMT -5
Henry Owens Splitts: Vs RHH: 5/29 BB/K Vs LHH: 5/6 BB/K Changup ,as advertised, is elite but the kid needs an effective breaking ball! That's why I think he needs a cutter. Cutters have a reverse split.
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