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2012 offseason - Red Sox 40-man roster
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Post by amfox1 on Oct 21, 2012 14:16:12 GMT -5
As of 10/21pm
Signed beyond 2013 (4) Jon Lester (2014 option) Dustin Pedroia (2015 option) John Lackey (60-day DL) (2015 min option) Clay Buchholz (2016/2017 options)
2013 free agents (all arb 3s) (5) Jacoby Ellsbury Jarrod Saltalamacchia Ryan Sweeney (60-day DL, non-tender candidate) Craig Breslow (non-tender candidate) Rich Hill (non-tender candidate)
Arb (arb type, # of options) (6) Scott Atchison (60-day DL) (arb 1, 0, non-tender candidate) Daniel Bard (arb 1, 2) Andrew Miller (arb 2, 0) Franklin Morales (arb 2, 0) Alfredo Aceves (arb 2, 1, non-tender candidate) Andrew Bailey (arb 2, 3)
Pre-arb (# of options) (22) Pedro Ciriaco (0) Ivan De Jesus (0) Felix Doubront (0) Mark Melancon (0) Clay Mortensen (0) Chris Carpenter (1) Jose Iglesias (1) Ryan Kalish (1) Daniel Nava (1) Stolmy Pimentel (1) Sandy Rosario (1) Jerry Sands (1) Zach Stewart (1) Junichi Tazawa (1) Danny Valencia (1) David Carpenter (1) Pedro Beato (2) Drake Britton (2) Mauro Gomez (2) Ryan Lavarnway (2) Will Middlebrooks (60-day DL) (2) Rubby De La Rosa (3)
Free agents (7) David Ortiz (will try to re-sign/qualifying offer) Cody Ross (will try to re-sign) Daisuke Matsuzaka Aaron Cook James Loney Vicente Padilla Scott Podsednik
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 21, 2012 14:52:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the update, amfox. Right now we are at 44 on the forty man. Certain cuts after WS: Matsuzaka, Loney, Podsednik, Padilla and Cook, leaving the roster at 39.
Tough decisions to be made on Sweeney, Hill, Atchison (poor guy gets no love) and Aceves.
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Post by jmei on Oct 21, 2012 15:34:26 GMT -5
Way too many right-handed relievers. I count Bard, Bailey, Melancon, Aceves, Tazawa, Atchinson, Mortensen, Carpenter, Carpenter, Beato (10), with Pimentel and Stewart as additional players likely to end up in the bullpen at the MLB level. That's not to mention the Rule 5 eligible guys: Wilson, Fields, Olmsted, Huntzinger, De La Torre, etc.
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Post by Pete Morrison on Oct 21, 2012 17:27:26 GMT -5
Strikes me that we may be seeing a Cherington preference to avoid free agent relievers or overpriced relievers. He has acquired a ton of in expensive and relatively mediocre RP prospects. But he has more than enough relievers to fill out Boston's bullpen and have some redundancy in Pawtucket.
Even with that it seems clear that we are going to have to shed some relievers. The health of Hill and Atchison, the cost of Breslow and the issues with Aceves would seem to make those guys as the most likely to get chopped.
Sweeney is another pretty obvious non-RP non-tender candidate.
The interesting thing is that none of these decisions really need to be made for financial reasons, but there just is too much chaff on the roster.
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steveofbradenton
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Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,823
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 21, 2012 19:25:54 GMT -5
Looks like to me, that some of these guys on the 40-man are on shakey ground. Like:
David Carpenter (1) Pedro Beato (2) Zach Stewart (1) Sandy Rosario (1) Alfredo Aceves (arb 2, 1, non-tender candidate Ryan Sweeney (60-day DL, non-tender candidate)
A couple of these guys may replace some of them. Like:
Wilson, Fields, Olmsted, Huntzinger, De La Torre
I like the 1st 3!
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Post by welovewally on Oct 21, 2012 19:48:04 GMT -5
Why is everybody thinking Sweeney is gone. I think he stays. In fact I think if they had to choose they would keep Sweeney and let Nava go. I understand the 2 are in different situations but I think Sweeney is the better player.
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Post by elguapo on Oct 21, 2012 21:07:30 GMT -5
In fact I think if they had to choose they would keep Sweeney and let Nava go. I understand the 2 are in different situations but I think Sweeney is the better player. Neither is a peach. Sweeney is a decent defensive 4th OF who can't hit and is in line for $2M, Nava is a LF with a good OBP at pre-arb salary and an option. Kalish is a similar player to Sweeney except better, cheaper, and with an upside.
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Post by dmaineah on Nov 4, 2012 7:16:46 GMT -5
With Aviles being traded I think the Red Sox need to add a proven Major League Shortstop to the 40 man roster.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 4, 2012 11:53:40 GMT -5
Jerry Sands is on the 40 man roster but can't find him ranked on SP's top prospects list. Is this because his acquisition wasn't offcial until the end of the WS?
John Valentin, a hitting coach in the Dodgers system tells Nick Cafardo that Sands "could be a very good hitter. He's big and athletic and will hit for power".
Valentin added that "He hits the breaking ball very well".
I'm sure Farrell, Cherington & Co. wil take a good look at him in ST. For now, at least, there are holes in the corner ourfield and 1B positions.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 4, 2012 12:44:37 GMT -5
Jerry Sands is on the 40 man roster but can't find him ranked on SP's top prospects list. Is this because his acquisition wasn't offcial until the end of the WS? He has over 200 major league at-bats. He's not considered a prospect anymore. We made an executive call on Rubby De La Rosa because he was close, just barely over the rookie limit, but Sands is pretty well over. He had over 200 PA in 2011 alone.
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Post by buffs4444 on Nov 4, 2012 20:43:16 GMT -5
With Aviles being traded I think the Red Sox need to add a proven Major League Shortstop to the 40 man roster. Agree with this, although I'd take it a step further and say that with rookies set to start at 3B and SS, and Pedroia playing the style he does, it's imperative that this team acquires a quality major league utility infielder for 2013. Based on that criteria, Ciriaco isn't a fit....
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Post by elguapo on Nov 4, 2012 20:58:21 GMT -5
with rookies set to start at 3B and SS, and Pedroia playing the style he does, it's imperative that this team acquires a quality major league utility infielder for 2013. Based on that criteria, Ciriaco isn't a fit.... You want to reverse the Punto trade? Either Ciriaco or De Jesus should go - DeJesus may have an upside, Ciriaco may have trade value - and the Sox should add some AAA depth at SS/2B, preferably with options.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 4, 2012 21:48:54 GMT -5
A small point: given his 200+ at bats last year, Middlebrooks isn't technically a rookie.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 4, 2012 22:29:08 GMT -5
with rookies set to start at 3B and SS, and Pedroia playing the style he does, it's imperative that this team acquires a quality major league utility infielder for 2013. Based on that criteria, Ciriaco isn't a fit.... You want to reverse the Punto trade? Either Ciriaco or De Jesus should go - DeJesus may have an upside, Ciriaco may have trade value - and the Sox should add some AAA depth at SS/2B, preferably with options. One of them HAS to go. Both are out of options.
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Post by elguapo on Nov 4, 2012 23:09:43 GMT -5
One of them HAS to go. Both are out of options. In theory you could have 2 backup IF or put Iglesias in AAA, or maybe they fight it out in Spring Training. But I agree in practice in the age of the 12-13(!) man pitching staff. Major league relievers (11)Breslow, Hill, Atchison, Bard, Miller, Morales, Aceves, Bailey, Melancon, Mortensen, Tazawa Need to shed, let's say, a net of 4. Tazawa belongs in the majors, the others are out of options or wasted in the minors. Morales could start. Hopefully Bard will be re-fixed but he has options.Minor league relievers (4 + 3?)C Carpenter, D Carpenter, Beato, Rosario, +Fields, +Huntzinger, +WilsonSeven is too many, especially since Pimentel/Britton/Stewart could end up in the pen, and Bard is a question. The first 4 are fringy. edit - good point on Bard
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 4, 2012 23:32:43 GMT -5
Ok, sorry: one has to go as long as the club hasn't lost its collective mind.
As for the relievers, at least one of Hill/Breslow/Miller will go, but that could be a ST decision. Morales' shoulder can't hold up to starting, so he'll be in the bullpen, and having four LHRP is kind of silly.
I think the issue is that the RP situation may have to shake itself out in camp. Of that group of 11 you name, I think Aceves is the only non-tender/cut possibility. I also don't know what you can reasonably expect out of Bard at this point - he's going to have to earn a roster spot in camp, and in the meantime, you need to keep guys around in case he's not right.
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Post by soxin8 on Nov 4, 2012 23:58:08 GMT -5
Farrell was singing the praises of Aceves recently. He almost single handedly saved the 2011 season in Sept so they probably hope he will accept the middle relief role again unless they receive a good offer for him. If Bard has an option left, I would think the Sox would now want him to begin in Pawtucket and return only if he is effective.
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Post by patrmac04 on Nov 5, 2012 11:51:20 GMT -5
Ok, sorry: one has to go as long as the club hasn't lost its collective mind. As for the relievers, at least one of Hill/Breslow/Miller will go, but that could be a ST decision. Morales' shoulder can't hold up to starting, so he'll be in the bullpen, and having four LHRP is kind of silly. I think the issue is that the RP situation may have to shake itself out in camp. Of that group of 11 you name, I think Aceves is the only non-tender/cut possibility. I also don't know what you can reasonably expect out of Bard at this point - he's going to have to earn a roster spot in camp, and in the meantime, you need to keep guys around in case he's not right. The level of success Morales had as a starter makes me think he will find his way into the rotation again even with his shoulder.
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Post by welovewally on Nov 13, 2012 5:45:40 GMT -5
With Aviles being traded I think the Red Sox need to add a proven Major League Shortstop to the 40 man roster. Agree with this, although I'd take it a step further and say that with rookies set to start at 3B and SS, and Pedroia playing the style he does, it's imperative that this team acquires a quality major league utility infielder for 2013. Based on that criteria, Ciriaco isn't a fit.... Hmm... Maybe we can trade Farrell for Aviles & Farrell can become a pitching Coach again & Aviles can be the utility infielder and back up plan in case Iglesias proves unable to even hit 220. But then - what would the Sox do for a Manager?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 13, 2012 13:30:34 GMT -5
Agree with this, although I'd take it a step further and say that with rookies set to start at 3B and SS, and Pedroia playing the style he does, it's imperative that this team acquires a quality major league utility infielder for 2013. Based on that criteria, Ciriaco isn't a fit.... Hmm... Maybe we can trade Farrell for Aviles & Farrell can become a pitching Coach again & Aviles can be the utility infielder and back up plan in case Iglesias proves unable to even hit 220. But then - what would the Sox do for a Manager? If they traded Farrell it would be to Cleveland, as Aviles now resides in Cleveland having been dealt there a couple of weeks after being dealt to Toronto. I'm sure Tito wouldn't mind having his old pitching coach back. Farrell, OTOH, probably would mind. Besides, it's not Aviles is much of a player anyways. If the Sox don't win the Series this year (odds are pretty good they won't), it won't be because Iglesias hit .220 - they'll have plenty of other problems.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 13, 2012 16:25:02 GMT -5
The Sox, and every other team, for that matter, have to set their 40 man rosters by next Tuesday. Decisions to be made. A trade or two would free up some space providing BC gives up more bodies than he's taking back.
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Post by amfox1 on Nov 14, 2012 15:40:54 GMT -5
As of 11/14pm
Signed beyond 2013 (6) Jon Lester (2014 option) Dustin Pedroia (2015 option) John Lackey (2015 min option) Clay Buchholz (2016/2017 options) David Ortiz (2014) David Ross (2014) (once contract is finalized)
2013 free agents (all arb 3s) (5) Jacoby Ellsbury Jarrod Saltalamacchia Ryan Sweeney (non-tender candidate) Craig Breslow (non-tender candidate) Rich Hill (non-tender candidate)
Arb (arb type, # of options) (6) Scott Atchison (arb 1, 0, non-tender candidate) Daniel Bard (arb 1, 2) Andrew Miller (arb 2, 0) Franklin Morales (arb 2, 0) Alfredo Aceves (arb 2, 1) Andrew Bailey (arb 2, 3)
Pre-arb (# of options) (22) Pedro Ciriaco (0) Ivan De Jesus (0) Felix Doubront (0) Mark Melancon (0) Clay Mortensen (0) Chris Carpenter (1) Jose Iglesias (1) Ryan Kalish (1) Daniel Nava (1) Stolmy Pimentel (1) Sandy Rosario (1) Jerry Sands (1) Zach Stewart (1) Junichi Tazawa (1) Danny Valencia (1) David Carpenter (1) Pedro Beato (2) Drake Britton (2) Mauro Gomez (2) Ryan Lavarnway (2) Will Middlebrooks (2) Rubby De La Rosa (3)
Free agents (6) Cody Ross Daisuke Matsuzaka Aaron Cook James Loney Vicente Padilla Scott Podsednik
Currently there are 39 players (including D.Ross) on the 40-man roster.
The deadline for teams to set their 40-man rosters for the Rule 5 draft is Tuesday, November 20.
Teams can make changes to the 40-man roster after November 20 but cannot add internal players to the 40-man roster prior to the Rule 5 draft, which is scheduled to be held on December 6. Teams may place a player on waivers on or prior to November 29 (which would then permit teams to outright the player on or prior to December 3, the deadline to clear a spot on the 40-man roster prior to the Rule 5 draft).
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 14, 2012 22:54:12 GMT -5
And one thing for people to remember is that the Sox are likely to keep at least one spot open on Tuesday.
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Post by elguapo on Nov 21, 2012 10:02:04 GMT -5
Current status:
Position players (17) OF (5.5) - Ellsbury, Nava, Sweeney, Kalish, Hassan, Sands^ IF/DH (6.5) - WMB, Iglesias, Ciriaco, Pedroia, Ortiz, Gomez, Sands^ C (5) - Ross, Lavarnway, Butler, Vazquez, Salty
Assuming we add one OF and one 1B and subtract one catcher, that'll be 18 position players, and no AAA middle infield depth on the roster. That leads me to think if we sign Napoli, for example, Gomez is on the bubble. If we add two OF, one of the existing OF has to go.
Pitchers (23): SP (4.5) - Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Doubront MiL SP (4) - De La Rosa, Webster, Wright, Britton LHRP (3.5) - Miller, Breslow, Hill, Morales RHRP (11) - Bailey, Aceves, Melancon, Tazawa, Bard, Mortensen, Atchison, Wilson, C.Carpenter, Beato, Pimentel
Count Britton & Pimentel whichever way you want - relief pitching is where the excesss is, and I expect that will be pared down one way or another - I'd guess Beato is the mostly likely cut, while others could be traded. We will likely add one starting pitcher and possibly one reliever.
I'm thinking we end up closer to 19 slots for position players (-1C, +2 OF/1B, +1 AAA IF, though that player might not be added until needed), and 21 slots for pitchers (+1 SP, -3 RP).
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Post by Guidas on Nov 21, 2012 11:22:52 GMT -5
Thank goodness Zach Stewart was Ben Cherrington's "must have" in the Youkilis deal. Between Valentine doing what he could to create tension and push out Youk in April, to creating a public issue of it when it more likely could've been managed in-house til the trade deadline got closer, to a negative return, this is another bad trade by the Cherrington/Lucchino Administration (or should we just refer to Lucchino as Dick Cheney?).
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