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9/19-9/21 Red Sox @ Orioles Series Thread
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 21, 2014 14:32:37 GMT -5
Kelley still throwing 98 in the 6th. Arm strength isn't a problem.
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Post by godot on Sept 21, 2014 14:33:48 GMT -5
Oregon Norm, you did not answer my question but rather avoided it. Didn't need a lecture, egad Spanky. If you did not catch it, I said that it takes time to develop pitchers and the road is not a straight path. So why tell me the same. Don't be so defensive. It is a simple question. If you can't answer it, just say so and don't go rambling some generalities and defense of the team. Personally I am tired of these arguments. They go in circles. We have our opinions and I am content to wait it out. Again, out of the pitchers they have brought up, what is your appraisal? Seems you read into the question and became defensive. Did not mean to spook you. Check out those links, Godot. All those pitchers started slowly and they are now all high-priced starters (Kluber soon to be). That... is.... the..... way..... baseball...... works. Webster, Ranaudo, and Barnes will all be starters in my estimation, and that's just the immediate group already with the team. So will Owens, Johnson, and Rodriguez - all three of whom are now on the AAA team knocking on the door - though it may be somewhere else for all six of them and that's a large part of the problem. That sense of entitlement, the endless clamour for immediate gratification, reeks of the high-priced empty boxes at Yankee Stadium. It bleeds from the talking heads on the radio, and spews out from venom-laced blogs written by buzz-feeders who regularly contradict themselves and whose only goal appears to be to bring in eyeballs. That impatient whining is nothing but childish behavior in adult dress. I don't pay attention to any of it. But that's just me. Thanks Normie, but again don't lecture me about it taking time for pitchers to develop. Creating a straw man, old man, so you can look smart? Can't blame you at your age Egad Sparky. This is why I asked you the question , and you again did not answer, other than laying out some assertion based on that premise. Now my turn to lecture. Sorry logic has to do with language and terms, not necessarily reality.That is, it does not follow that it takes time yada yada that these pitchers in particular will develop as you suggest. They may and they may not. What do they show now that makes you feel they will or could? This may not be a fair question as they could add something that they do not have now. From what they show now I agree with the choice of Webster and Ranuado, but have no idea as their ceiling. Ranaudo right now seems more of a back end strarter. Don't know about Webster (nor Ruddy), and I haven't seen the others to comment, which if course does not mean they will not flower. Just don't know. Suspect that the Sox will be active in the FA and trade markets. By the way, instant gratification for old guys like us( you also seem to be old in the teeth) is just a pipe fantasy anywhoo
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 21, 2014 14:37:26 GMT -5
Egads sparky godotie, you really should tone it down.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 21, 2014 14:39:04 GMT -5
Meeks can't get the bunt down and they aren't even concerned enough about his bat to stop a pitchout.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 21, 2014 14:41:24 GMT -5
Spare us the condescending nicknames.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 21, 2014 14:42:48 GMT -5
Spare us the condescending nicknames. Obviously that's the point of my post
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 21, 2014 14:54:48 GMT -5
None of our young pitchers are named Godot. We can wait for them. And Beckett isn't writing this play. Our young pitchers show me a lot of potential still. Put me in the cautious optimistic category. Notice that the Redsox haven't traded any of them ( besides Doubront, which only confirms my confidence overall ). They think they have better prospects than Doubront readily available. We are in last place. We will sign at least one starter this winter, and probably 2 IMO. We all know what is going on.
We just need to have some patience. Some of these guys are probably going to emerge. Granted, it looks like a difficult progression but isn't it usually a difficult progression for young starters. Look at how long it takes for most young starters.
Honestly, don't we have 7-8 starting pitching prospects better than Doubront ever was as a prospect? I don't get the impatience. If it were easy to develop starting mlb pitchers everyone would have 2-3 top pitchers on staff.
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Post by redsox4242 on Sept 21, 2014 15:02:36 GMT -5
Encouraging performance today from Kelly, He was throwing gas the whole game. I like him as a 4th/5th starter. Needs to work on his control and limit damage when in pressure situations against lower competition(Astros)
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Post by redsox4242 on Sept 21, 2014 15:03:21 GMT -5
Koji time for the 8th?
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Post by redsox4242 on Sept 21, 2014 15:09:21 GMT -5
Rusney!!! Boy is Rusney fast!
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Post by redsox4242 on Sept 21, 2014 15:24:53 GMT -5
Great job by Badenhop, besides that first month. He has been terrific! Leads the lead Double plays by a reliever if im correct?
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Post by redsox4242 on Sept 21, 2014 15:44:49 GMT -5
SOX WIN!!
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Post by p23w on Sept 21, 2014 15:48:49 GMT -5
Nice win. I'm really starting to believe that this team is headed for better things. Watching September baseball for a team that is not in contention is proving to be enjoyable. I am looking forward to the removal of some dead wood, to the return of a fully healthy Pedroia and to the continued development from the cast of characters that have emerged from the farm.
Almost forgot.... who says this team is nothing without Papi?
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Post by nationinthesouth on Sept 21, 2014 15:56:06 GMT -5
Haven't watched a game in a while, what has Mujica looked like in the second half? His numbers seemed to have improved, is he doing it with smoke and mirrors or has his stuff/command improved enough to look like he may be a viable set-up option next year?
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 21, 2014 15:58:14 GMT -5
Cechinni looks to be closer to mlb ready than might be expected, given his numbers. An encouraging day all around. With a little luck this could have been no runs for Kelly.
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Post by godot on Sept 21, 2014 16:12:16 GMT -5
None of our young pitchers are named Godot. We can wait for them. And Beckett isn't writing this play. Our young pitchers show me a lot of potential still. Put me in the cautious optimistic category. Notice that the Redsox haven't traded any of them ( besides Doubront, which only confirms my confidence overall ). They think they have better prospects than Doubront readily available. We are in last place. We will sign at least one starter this winter, and probably 2 IMO. We all know what is going on. We just need to have some patience. Some of these guys are probably going to emerge. Granted, it looks like a difficult progression but isn't it usually a difficult progression for young starters. Look at how long it takes for most young starters. Honestly, don't we have 7-8 starting pitching prospects better than Doubront ever was as a prospect? I don't get the impatience. If it were easy to develop starting mlb pitchers everyone would have 2-3 top pitchers on staff. If you like Waiting for Godot, then you will like Beckett's Endgame and Krapp's last Tape. Beckett was a literary genius. What does this have to do with the Red Sox though? Well, a lot, or just nothing. They keep us waiting and test our faith (and hope) by finishing last, then win the big one but suck again, only to have us argue and kick each other while waiting for another glory season that may or may not come, probably not, then again maybe. Some like Jmie and Normie believe it will come and have their statues of John Henry on their dash boards ( besides pictures of themselves). I rather kick and argue, giving them the metaphysical finger. So what is the endgame? Don't know but just tired and will listen to some tapes of old bands, while giving the finger. Whatever Sparky, in the final analysis we are all dead, and so is this season. Good night Irene.
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Post by redsox4242 on Sept 21, 2014 16:49:40 GMT -5
Its great to know you have two 21 year old rookies who are going to do great things here for the next decade. I am so happy we have Xander and Mookie! We saw great flashes from both of them, can't wait for next season! GO RED SOX!
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Post by sarasoxer on Sept 21, 2014 17:47:28 GMT -5
Its great to know you have two 21 year old rookies who are going to do great things here for the next decade. I am so happy we have Xander and Mookie! We saw great flashes from both of them, can't wait for next season! GO RED SOX! I think most of us here want to keep our prospects and watch them develop into a Rizzo et al. Ben has indicated that the Sox will make every effort to contend next year. Yes, we will have a good chunk of money below the cap. But, IMO to challenge will require the loss of a Mookie, a Xander and others. Landing Stanton will certainly drain the system and he is not the difference. We are short in every category now -- BP, SP , BA, power--. We have vets who have peaked and youth that will take time to emerge. There is a pretty big gap. If we are going to keep Mookie, X, Swihart. Margot. Devers etc....(how much fun would that be if they pan out???), then Stanton is off the table. Let these guys grow up. We have had 3 championships in 10 years. Plan diligently, intelligently, meticulously for the next ring sure, but let's not get too greedy, fat and bloated like the Yankees...both unable to keep feeding themselves and lacking fresh farm produce. As some sage once said in another context...."pigs get fat but hogs get slaughtered". Patience, patience, patience.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 21, 2014 17:49:56 GMT -5
Godot, you are just intentionally insulting. I would prefer not to have to say it or argue with you but none of us like being called "Sparky". Got it? Comprendez? It's disrespectful. Do you really think you are the only person around here with a brain? That's how you come off. The collective IQ here is far higher than you give it credit.
All of us get frustrated sometimes when we think something and others just do not agree but what is the track record? That is what often gets overlooked. The guys complaining the most are often the ones who's track records suck. Then we hear straw man arguments and all the other BS. It's ok to disagree but we really don't need the condescending nicknames.
The first day I joined a Redsox blog some troll called me a "moron". I let such things bother me at first and argued with him for a year. What a collosal a waste of time. I refuse to even argue with disrespectful people any more.
We know what is going on. We are in last place and they are retooling. Seeing what they have, or don't have and will adjust accordingly. Considering the failure rate of prospects it is really only a slightly down year, in terms of prospects, if that. Mookie's progression alone would make any team's farm a success this year. And look at all the other positives. We are well on our way to a fast rebuild.
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Post by klostrophobic on Sept 21, 2014 18:11:09 GMT -5
Mookie Raines with HR #5. Could finish fourth on the team with a strong last couple games.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Sept 21, 2014 18:22:13 GMT -5
You make very good points there Sarasoxer, but in order to not get bloated, like the NYY stay every year.. The Sox might have to avoid going out and hitting the FA market hot and heavy and allowing prospects a full season at the MLB level to develop, rather than trading away multiple of them for what they cannot acquire via FA over the off season.
Sometimes it is better to flat out tell the media and fan base **NO** that they are not going to mortgage the future and forgoe a few sellouts over 1 season, rather than give away what has been carefully built up. Some in an area (SP) can be moved, but the areas where they are going to be needed possibly. Betts, even possibly Cecchini and maybe Coyle? Those can be allowed to settled next season rather than heading into a season and throwing away millions on FA, such as Sandoval, Headley, or trading away people like Cecchini. They need to ignore the tantrums of the base and media this time around.
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Post by godot on Sept 21, 2014 18:25:09 GMT -5
Lavarnway, hope you did not think I was referring to you as Sparky. I liked your comments. Besides, what is wrong with Sparky. That is my parrot's name. What you believe are condescending nicknames, I feel are terms of endearment, really. Sorry, I am naturally aggressive and combative towards some, but I thought I was toning it down. Still, sometimes forget how thin skinned we (all) are. You strike me as a nice guy ( you probably also want to strike me), so out of respect I will be nice, unless of course someone tries something towards me. I hope you realized that you were disrespectful to me while telling me I was disrespectful . But that's cool. Lavaranway, I have spent a good deal of my life community and labor organizing in the trench's (almost three decades), and no disrespect but you can't be dainty and go by the rules for English tea and cakes. Power is the name of the game, and you are dealing with some very nasty and smart people. You have to be able to slug it out, channel anger, and be an ahole at times, along with being strategic, to bring about some of the changes that are needed, and they will throw everything in the book to fight you. It also leaves scars and you have to make many sacrifices. It takes more than arguing and making insights. But this is another story.
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Post by sarasoxer on Sept 21, 2014 19:04:39 GMT -5
You make very good points there Sarasoxer, but in order to not get bloated, like the NYY stay every year.. The Sox might have to avoid going out and hitting the FA market hot and heavy and allowing prospects a full season at the MLB level to develop, rather than trading away multiple of them for what they cannot acquire via FA over the off season. Sometimes it is better to flat out tell the media and fan base **NO** that they are not going to mortgage the future and forgoe a few sellouts over 1 season, rather than give away what has been carefully built up. Some in an area (SP) can be moved, but the areas where they are going to be needed possibly. Betts, even possibly Cecchini and maybe Coyle? Those can be allowed to settled next season rather than heading into a season and throwing away millions on FA, such as Sandoval, Headley, or trading away people like Cecchini. They need to ignore the tantrums of the base and media this time around. In a perfectly transparent, honest world (which would be nice to live in), I would agree. I would like management to say that it will take time but that it will work as hard as possible, within its resources, to get competitive ASAP. But, I don't want it to feel overly pressured by the fan base/media at the expense of future tomorrows. Generally I believe that is its mindset. But all are human and it is hard to muffle the incessant drumbeat of the masses. I think that this year's team is more at a crossroads than that of 2012. We are much more in line for substantial change in personnel and evolution as a team...even if we get Miller and Lester back. I want to watch the egg hatch. When I think of the Yankees, I see Jabba the Hutt. Success and largess led to laxity, complacency and...... failure.
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Post by soxcentral on Sept 21, 2014 20:18:19 GMT -5
Lavarnway, hope you did not think I was referring to you as Sparky. I liked your comments. Besides, what is wrong with Sparky. That is my parrot's name. What you believe are condescending nicknames, I feel are terms of endearment, really. Sorry, I am naturally aggressive and combative towards some, but I thought I was toning it down. Still, sometimes forget how thin skinned we (all) are. You strike me as a nice guy ( you probably also want to strike me), so out of respect I will be nice, unless of course someone tries something towards me. I hope you realized that you were disrespectful to me while telling me I was disrespectful . But that's cool. Lavaranway, I have spent a good deal of my life community and labor organizing in the trench's (almost three decades), and no disrespect but you can't be dainty and go by the rules for English tea and cakes. Power is the name of the game, and you are dealing with some very nasty and smart people. You have to be able to slug it out, channel anger, and be an ahole at times, along with being strategic, to bring about some of the changes that are needed, and they will throw everything in the book to fight you. It also leaves scars and you have to make many sacrifices. It takes more than arguing and making insights. But this is another story. The fact is you have singlehandedly lowered the bar in this forum more than anyone I've ever seen here. You are all over every thread, constantly taking unprovoked shots at fellow posters. I don't agree with everything Eric and Jmei post either, but have a ton of respect for both because of the time and effort they put in to posting good information here. You do not, you constantly talk down to people and offer nothing substantive to the conversation. It is beyond old. Calling people sparky and spanky are clearly insulting, despite how much your parrot may enjoy it. These are real people you are talking to. This forum is typically a place where people offer differing viewpoints and are passionate about their beliefs. Normally they use facts. And evidence to support their claim. That is what makes reading this site so enjoyable for me and I'll guess many others here. Try to respect that at least. If you don't have anything new and insightful to add, just don't post. When you do, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
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Post by jmei on Sept 21, 2014 20:30:56 GMT -5
Lavaranway, I have spent a good deal of my life community and labor organizing in the trench's (almost three decades), and no disrespect but you can't be dainty and go by the rules for English tea and cakes. Power is the name of the game, and you are dealing with some very nasty and smart people. You have to be able to slug it out, channel anger, and be an ahole at times, along with being strategic, to bring about some of the changes that are needed, and they will throw everything in the book to fight you. It also leaves scars and you have to make many sacrifices. It takes more than arguing and making insights. But this is another story. Unfortunately, this forum does have rules that you do have to abide by. Despite multiple warnings and multiple second chances, you have continued to violate the ground rules nearly every time you post, including routinely harassing and insulting other posters, deliberately derailing threads, and generally acting in an incredibly immature and unnecessarily antagonistic manner. As a result, you are no longer welcome in the SoxProspects community and have been banned from these forums.
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