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Chris Sale
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Post by telson13 on Dec 5, 2016 16:57:58 GMT -5
That's actually a wholly reasonable package for Sale. I'm sure the White Sox ask for a lot more, but I'd 100% support that deal. Possible next step in that scenario: sign Ian Desmond, move Mookie to CF. It'd cost a draft pick, which I'm not keen on, but Desmond is a capable CF and probably has enough arm for RF. It would really depend on the deal, though, because dropping 5/100 on a guy like that will clog the OF picture if Moncada looks like a RFer when Devers is ready. By all accounts, Devers is becoming a superior defensive 3b, and he has a great arm that would be wasted at first. Just say no to Desmond and/ or fowler please. Move benintendi to center. Leave mookie in right, I think he led all right fielders in assists from there, let's leave well enough alone. We sign/trade for a left fielder to platoon with young plus sprinkle in an occasional holt. On further review, I've soured on Desmond significantly as a CF option. Meaning any trade of Bradley leaves a giant, gaping hole in both OF defense and in the lineup. They're not making even a small fraction of that up with a platoon. Fowler would be the only viable option, but he's probably too expensive. Bottom line is that trading Bradley really wouldn't work unless an internal option were readily available, or they felt like taking on a Fowler contract.
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Post by rookie13 on Dec 5, 2016 17:09:13 GMT -5
I really hope Chicago trades Sale soon. It reminds me of when Cole Hamels was on the block from Philly. You see so many ridiculous proposals on elite players that it gets redundant hearing about them. Just like when, I think last year, Jon Heyman suggested the Sox should trade Moncada, Devers, Benintendi, Espinoza, and one other piece for Jose Fernandez. I know it's Heyman, but still. That's insane.
A few days ago I saw a comment on MLBTradeRumors(?) where someone thought we should trade JBJ, Moncada, Rodriguez, Kopech and one more piece, and said if that's not the package Chicago gets, they're getting ripped off. Not only is that ridiculous, but it's borderline annoying and makes me never want to read comments on any article.
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Post by jmei on Dec 5, 2016 17:34:31 GMT -5
Just say no to Desmond and/ or fowler please. Move benintendi to center. Leave mookie in right, I think he led all right fielders in assists from there, let's leave well enough alone. We sign/trade for a left fielder to platoon with young plus sprinkle in an occasional holt. On further review, I've soured on Desmond significantly as a CF option. Meaning any trade of Bradley leaves a giant, gaping hole in both OF defense and in the lineup. They're not making even a small fraction of that up with a platoon. Fowler would be the only viable option, but he's probably too expensive. Bottom line is that trading Bradley really wouldn't work unless an internal option were readily available, or they felt like taking on a Fowler contract. They could move Betts back to CF and add a right fielder (or move Benintendi to RF and add a LF). It would involve a few moving pieces, but I think Betts (and Benintendi) could likely handle it. There aren't many palatable corner outfield options on the free agent market, but there are also options in the trade market, and they have the not-terrible incumbent option of using some combination of Shaw/Young/Holt there. Perhaps more importantly, I continue to think Moncada's best long-term fit is in RF, where his athleticism and arm strength play up and hide some of the hands/footwork issues that have made his defense on the infield a work in progress. Not saying that Bradley should be moved for Sale or that he should be moved at all, but opening up RF long-term for Moncada would be a (very minor) peripheral benefit.
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Post by telson13 on Dec 5, 2016 20:17:19 GMT -5
On further review, I've soured on Desmond significantly as a CF option. Meaning any trade of Bradley leaves a giant, gaping hole in both OF defense and in the lineup. They're not making even a small fraction of that up with a platoon. Fowler would be the only viable option, but he's probably too expensive. Bottom line is that trading Bradley really wouldn't work unless an internal option were readily available, or they felt like taking on a Fowler contract. They could move Betts back to CF and add a right fielder (or move Benintendi to RF and add a LF). It would involve a few moving pieces, but I think Betts (and Benintendi) could likely handle it. There aren't many palatable corner outfield options on the free agent market, but there are also options in the trade market, and they have the not-terrible incumbent option of using some combination of Shaw/Young/Holt there. Perhaps more importantly, I continue to think Moncada's best long-term fit is in RF, where his athleticism and arm strength play up and hide some of the hands/footwork issues that have made his defense on the infield a work in progress. Not saying that Bradley should be moved for Sale or that he should be moved at all, but opening up RF long-term for Moncada would be a (very minor) peripheral benefit. I agree that Moncada is probably ticketed for RF, it certainly fits his skill set very well. My point is more that, if the Sox were to move Bradley this winter, it's almost certain to be a lateral move, at best. If for Sale, for example, the expected lost production in the OF is essentially the same as what they could expect to gain in the rotation. Making a win-now move that adds salary (and lux tax), and sacrifices (a lot of) future production, but has minimal positive short-term impact seems remarkably silly to me. I agree with essentially everything you've said...I think Mookie actually would provide even more value in CF. The issue, as you mention, is acquiring a COF (really RF; I'm less convinced Benintendi can play RF) who can approximate Bradley's production. That means trading away even more young talent, and taking on more salary. It almost guarantees a monumental collapse in a couple of years, as well. So I think it makes more sense to get multiple high-end talents (e.g., Giolito/Robles) for Bradley/Buchholz, and see how the MLB-ready ones pan out (including Moncada) while remaining roughly salary-neutral this year by signing someone like Fowler. The team remains as good as it already is, with more depth and more elite talent. Or, don't trade JBJ at all (probably the best idea) until it looks like Moncada/Swihart/Travis/Kopech are ready to contribute, at which point there's less risk of creating a crippling hole somewhere.
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Post by larrycook on Dec 5, 2016 21:07:30 GMT -5
Red Sox still in on Sale. Fenway nation thinks it is down to us and the Nats for sale.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 5, 2016 21:07:53 GMT -5
I really hope Chicago trades Sale soon. It reminds me of when Cole Hamels was on the block from Philly. You see so many ridiculous proposals on elite players that it gets redundant hearing about them. Just like when, I think last year, Jon Heyman suggested the Sox should trade Moncada, Devers, Benintendi, Espinoza, and one other piece for Jose Fernandez. I know it's Heyman, but still. That's insane. A few days ago I saw a comment on MLBTradeRumors(?) where someone thought we should trade JBJ, Moncada, Rodriguez, Kopech and one more piece, and said if that's not the package Chicago gets, they're getting ripped off. Not only is that ridiculous, but it's borderline annoying and makes me never want to read comments on any article. Yea it's getting crazy. White Sox fans on ESPN think they are going to get way more than they will. It also seems everyone is way undervaluing Bradley. I understand that Bradley's track record is not that of Sale, so his value is less, but it's not Moncada, ERod, Kopech and one more piece less. That's so crazy! I'm thinking Moncada, ERod, Kopech and one more piece is the price of Sale without Bradley included.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 5, 2016 21:26:20 GMT -5
“@ken_Rosenthal: Sources: Legitimate chance of Sale trade to #Nationals. Robles, Giolito would go to #WhiteSox. Teams haggling over final pieces in deal.”
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Post by larrycook on Dec 5, 2016 22:24:25 GMT -5
I really hope Chicago trades Sale soon. It reminds me of when Cole Hamels was on the block from Philly. You see so many ridiculous proposals on elite players that it gets redundant hearing about them. Just like when, I think last year, Jon Heyman suggested the Sox should trade Moncada, Devers, Benintendi, Espinoza, and one other piece for Jose Fernandez. I know it's Heyman, but still. That's insane. A few days ago I saw a comment on MLBTradeRumors(?) where someone thought we should trade JBJ, Moncada, Rodriguez, Kopech and one more piece, and said if that's not the package Chicago gets, they're getting ripped off. Not only is that ridiculous, but it's borderline annoying and makes me never want to read comments on any article. Yea it's getting crazy. White Sox fans on ESPN think they are going to get way more than they will. It also seems everyone is way undervaluing Bradley. I understand that Bradley's track record is not that of Sale, so his value is less, but it's not Moncada, ERod, Kopech and one more piece less. That's so crazy! I'm thinking Moncada, ERod, Kopech and one more piece is the price of Sale without Bradley included. Last we heard Chicago wanted a center fielder, front line starter and big time prospect as a starting point for sale. In addition they need a catcher. We have Bradley, Vazquez, Pomeranz, Devers and dalbec or ockimey. No way we can not beat the Nationals best offer.
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Post by rookie13 on Dec 5, 2016 22:46:51 GMT -5
I really hope Chicago trades Sale soon. It reminds me of when Cole Hamels was on the block from Philly. You see so many ridiculous proposals on elite players that it gets redundant hearing about them. Just like when, I think last year, Jon Heyman suggested the Sox should trade Moncada, Devers, Benintendi, Espinoza, and one other piece for Jose Fernandez. I know it's Heyman, but still. That's insane. A few days ago I saw a comment on MLBTradeRumors(?) where someone thought we should trade JBJ, Moncada, Rodriguez, Kopech and one more piece, and said if that's not the package Chicago gets, they're getting ripped off. Not only is that ridiculous, but it's borderline annoying and makes me never want to read comments on any article. Yea it's getting crazy. White Sox fans on ESPN think they are going to get way more than they will. It also seems everyone is way undervaluing Bradley. I understand that Bradley's track record is not that of Sale, so his value is less, but it's not Moncada, ERod, Kopech and one more piece less. That's so crazy! I'm thinking Moncada, ERod, Kopech and one more piece is the price of Sale without Bradley included. Honestly I don't think even that package would be worth it to get Sale. But then again, I just don't want to give up on Moncada. I don't see how he isn't the starting 3B on the Red Sox by mid to late season, barring a massive decline in his production so far. Then you add in the loss of Rodriguez, who looks like a potential 2-3 starter, and Kopech who could easily close if his change doesn't develop. I would much rather sell high on Bradley, include Rodriguez, and one other good piece. If it's anything more than that, I don't see why the Sox would want to trade for him.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 5, 2016 23:49:18 GMT -5
Yea it's getting crazy. White Sox fans on ESPN think they are going to get way more than they will. It also seems everyone is way undervaluing Bradley. I understand that Bradley's track record is not that of Sale, so his value is less, but it's not Moncada, ERod, Kopech and one more piece less. That's so crazy! I'm thinking Moncada, ERod, Kopech and one more piece is the price of Sale without Bradley included. Last we heard Chicago wanted a center fielder, front line starter and big time prospect as a starting point for sale. In addition they need a catcher. We have Bradley, Vazquez, Pomeranz, Devers and dalbec or ockimey. No way we can not beat the Nationals best offer. Chicago might want that, but rumors have the Nats sending two elite prospects and them still working on the rest. Unless Chicago is getting 3-4 more of there better prospect that haul is no where near the offer your talking about. Just because we can beat Nats offer doesn't mean we should.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 5, 2016 23:57:32 GMT -5
Yea it's getting crazy. White Sox fans on ESPN think they are going to get way more than they will. It also seems everyone is way undervaluing Bradley. I understand that Bradley's track record is not that of Sale, so his value is less, but it's not Moncada, ERod, Kopech and one more piece less. That's so crazy! I'm thinking Moncada, ERod, Kopech and one more piece is the price of Sale without Bradley included. Honestly I don't think even that package would be worth it to get Sale. But then again, I just don't want to give up on Moncada. I don't see how he isn't the starting 3B on the Red Sox by mid to late season, barring a massive decline in his production so far. Then you add in the loss of Rodriguez, who looks like a potential 2-3 starter, and Kopech who could easily close if his change doesn't develop. I would much rather sell high on Bradley, include Rodriguez, and one other good piece. If it's anything more than that, I don't see why the Sox would want to trade for him. I wouldn't make that trade either. My best offer would still be Bradley, Clay, 2-4 of our guys not in top 5. I doubt that gets it done, but that's a fair offer in my opinion. I would even pay half of Clays salary if that's what it took. The new CBA is going to limit the amount of money teams spend, so we're going to need our young guys.
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nomar
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Posts: 10,755
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Post by nomar on Dec 6, 2016 11:11:19 GMT -5
A reputable source (footballfutures) called the Abad and Thornburg deals before they happened.
He also has said the Sox are making a push for Sale offering Moncada, Kopech and Basabe.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 6, 2016 12:48:05 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal 7m7 minutes ago Sources: #RedSox remain strongly in mix for #WhiteSox’s Sale, along with #Nationals.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 6, 2016 12:49:44 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal 1m1 minute ago Multiple sources now saying that #RedSox have built momentum toward a deal with #WhiteSox for Sale.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 6, 2016 13:02:08 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal 1m1 minute ago Multiple sources now saying that #RedSox have built momentum toward a deal with #WhiteSox for Sale. Oh lord, I'm not ready for the outrage to come. Please brace yourselves people, a lot of talent is going to be trading places.
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