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Chris Sale
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Post by geostorm on Sept 3, 2016 9:13:53 GMT -5
Considering Bradley is a lot cheaper, has more team control, is younger, and produced roughly the same value this year (4.6 bWAR to 5.0), I wouldn't make that trade straight up. Never mind also including prospects. you've more company - ..."Obviously, the price for a Sale or Quintana was always going to be high, but reputation and a longer track record are the only things that would keep Bradley-for-Sale (or Quintana) from being seen as a reasonable 1-for-1 deal. Based only on their play in 2016, neither is clearly more valuable than the other. Then you start throwing prospects in, and looking at contract situations, where Bradley is under team control for longer at a lower cost?" www.overthemonster.com/2016/9/2/12769534/chris-sale-trade-jose-quintana-red-sox-white-sox-jackie-bradley-jr
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Post by adamoraz on Sept 3, 2016 9:59:17 GMT -5
And to think, they might have wanted us to throw in Erod as well. I'm fine with this trade not happening.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 16, 2016 5:53:41 GMT -5
What does everyone see with this scenario for Chris Sale that gives up the least. Three team deal.
White Sox get- Kyle Sworber
Cubs get- JBJ
Red Sox get- Chris Sale
Maybe there could be a couple of extra pieces involved but this is a excellent trade scenario. The Cubs could use a new CF next year. The Sox could definitely use Sale. The White Sox could build around Kyle Sworber for years.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 16, 2016 7:10:24 GMT -5
What does everyone see with this scenario for Chris Sale that gives up the least. Three team deal. White Sox get- Kyle Sworber Cubs get- JBJ Red Sox get- Chris Sale Maybe there could be a couple of extra pieces involved but this is a excellent trade scenario. The Cubs could use a new CF next year. The Sox could definitely use Sale. The White Sox could build around Kyle Sworber for years. If I remember correctly the White Sox would have wanted JBJ for themselves. I believe they were looking for a CF themselves. I think the White Sox would want E-Rod, JBJ, and if they couldn't get Benintendi would probably want Moncada or Devers and a fourth piece. With all the talk centering around who to get to replace Ortiz, like getting Encarnacion or even Votto, if the Sox got one of them in additional to a rental temporary outfielder, it could make it easier to deal JBJ, and move Moncada to the outfield when he's ready, which means Sandoval would hold the 3b job (you'd hope) until Devers is ready to take his natural position. Of course that's assuming the BoSox can make a deal that is fairer and excludes Devers and Moncada, something like JBJ, E-Rod (I wish they'd take Pomeranz instead), a catcher whether it's Vazquez, Swihart, or Leon, and Dubon.
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Post by ryan24 on Oct 16, 2016 7:21:30 GMT -5
Wow we would under this idea pick up a quality pitcher. OH,BUT would weaken the outfield, gold glove centerfielder, further weaken the farm system that most people are talking about needs a rebuild in its present condition. and force the sox to keep leon or hanigan to cover for giving up a young salary controlled catcher with still lots of promise. Interesting idea but, looks like it hurts ALOT more than it helps.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 16, 2016 7:52:18 GMT -5
Wow we would under this idea pick up a quality pitcher. OH,BUT would weaken the outfield, gold glove centerfielder, further weaken the farm system that most people are talking about needs a rebuild in its present condition. and force the sox to keep leon or hanigan to cover for giving up a young salary controlled catcher with still lots of promise. Interesting idea but, looks like it hurts ALOT more than it helps. A outfielder is a lot easier to replace than a pitcher like Sale. The Sox could acquire Carlos Gonzalez and have him platoon with Chris Young for a year and put Benintendi in CF. The Sox could then shift Moncada to the outfield and leave Devers at 3B.
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Post by artfuldodger on Oct 16, 2016 7:58:37 GMT -5
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Post by wrangler713 on Oct 16, 2016 9:51:36 GMT -5
Yeah as someone stated before, I think the Sox would rightfully ask for JBJ, Erod, Devers, and Moncada. If they don't get it they'd move on to someone like the Dodgers, if the Dodgers don't get to the world series I have to think they'd go hard after for him with a package of Pederson, DeLeon, Bellinger, plus.
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larrycook
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Post by larrycook on Nov 8, 2016 23:01:27 GMT -5
Will the white sox make sale available this winter?
Clearly we have the pieces to make this happen,
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 9, 2016 0:52:48 GMT -5
Will the white sox make sale available this winter? Clearly we have the pieces to make this happen, Dave Dombrowski basically said that a trade for a "Ace" was almost a non subject. I don't think the Red Sox will be in on Sale this winter.
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Post by rookie13 on Nov 9, 2016 9:53:02 GMT -5
Will the white sox make sale available this winter? Clearly we have the pieces to make this happen, I think they would be smart to make him available, but I doubt DDo will bite. Only way to get him is to give them JBJ, and seeing as how the rotation is already pretty good, I'd rather have the elite center fielder who's controllable for 4 more years.
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larrycook
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Chris Sale
Nov 17, 2016 23:22:37 GMT -5
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Post by larrycook on Nov 17, 2016 23:22:37 GMT -5
We are fast approaching thanksgiving. Time for dombrowski to consummate a deal with the white sox for either sale or Quintana.
Ps: mookie, bogey, benintendi, Rodriquez, moncada, kopech and groome are the untouchables.
Let's get this deal done Dave!
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 17, 2016 23:32:58 GMT -5
We are fast approaching thanksgiving. Time for dombrowski to consummate a deal with the white sox for either sale or Quintana. Ps: mookie, bogey, benintendi, Rodriquez, moncada, kopech and groome are the untouchables. Let's get this deal done Dave! Unless you're talking about dealing JBJ, E-Rod, Devers, and Swihart, I don't see how the Red Sox get a deal done with all the players you have off the table.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 18, 2016 2:39:21 GMT -5
We are fast approaching thanksgiving. Time for dombrowski to consummate a deal with the white sox for either sale or Quintana. Ps: mookie, bogey, benintendi, Rodriquez, moncada, kopech and groome are the untouchables. Let's get this deal done Dave! So what do you trade to get one of them? Bradley, Swihart and Devers? Porcello plus?
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Chris Sale
Nov 18, 2016 17:38:09 GMT -5
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Post by telson13 on Nov 18, 2016 17:38:09 GMT -5
Sale is worth JBJ, straight up. Maybe Pomeranz added on, since they'd have an open rotation spot. Nothing more. The difference from Sale to Pomeranz is about 3 WAR, give or take. My guess is they come out a tiny bit behind by putting Benintendi in CF and finding some LF platoon (although, while Benintendi might be worth 3.5 WAR in CF, that's a pretty aggressive prediction). I'm not confident that they can piece together a 3-4 WAR LF platoon (which is about what I hope Benintendi would produce). Trading JBJ almost assures lost value in both CF and LF. That's a huge deficit to make up.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Nov 19, 2016 12:45:17 GMT -5
Everytime a big name talked about as possible trade bait actually gets traded it always seems like the price was much higher or lower than what others anticipated. It seemed like Cole Hamels was had for a lot less than what everyone thought it would take from Bostons system but then I was surprised at the haul we gave up for someone like Kimbrell. Perhaps I'm just an idiot and have no ideal what I'm talking about but I wonder if a deal in the range of ERod,JBJ,Devers, and a lower level prospect in the 10-15 range is all it takes?
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Post by telson13 on Nov 20, 2016 1:40:29 GMT -5
Everytime a big name talked about as possible trade bait actually gets traded it always seems like the price was much higher or lower than what others anticipated. It seemed like Cole Hamels was had for a lot less than what everyone thought it would take from Bostons system but then I was surprised at the haul we gave up for someone like Kimbrell. Perhaps I'm just an idiot and have no ideal what I'm talking about but I wonder if a deal in the range of ERod,JBJ,Devers, and a lower level prospect in the 10-15 range is all it takes? That's a TON to give up. JBJ put up similar WAR alone last year. Devers is a likely top-15 prospect. And in 2-3 years, I'm willing to bet Rodriguez is worth 70% of Sale, at least, for a fraction of the cost. Just say no to Sale.
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Post by telson13 on Nov 20, 2016 1:46:47 GMT -5
I'd rather see them trade for Robbie Ray and get him burying his change. Or adding a cutter. Sale's on the wrong end of the trade-value curve.
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Post by soxjim on Nov 20, 2016 13:46:30 GMT -5
Everytime a big name talked about as possible trade bait actually gets traded it always seems like the price was much higher or lower than what others anticipated. It seemed like Cole Hamels was had for a lot less than what everyone thought it would take from Bostons system but then I was surprised at the haul we gave up for someone like Kimbrell. Perhaps I'm just an idiot and have no ideal what I'm talking about but I wonder if a deal in the range of ERod,JBJ,Devers, and a lower level prospect in the 10-15 range is all it takes? If I'm the Red Sox, I wouldn't give that up for Sale.
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Post by dmaineah on Nov 22, 2016 13:39:25 GMT -5
Call me confused or any thing else you want but, I just do not understand why the White Sox would trade Sale. Starting Pitching is just to hard to get. Especially someone of his caliber signed for the contract that he is under. Chicago is not a small market team needing to shed payroll nor (I don't believe) are they in a total rebuilding mode. I just do not see Sale as being available. It reminds me of all the talk of trying to get Felix Hernandez from Seattle.
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Post by p23w on Nov 22, 2016 16:53:43 GMT -5
Call me confused or any thing else you want but, I just do not understand why the White Sox would trade Sale. Starting Pitching is just to hard to get. Especially someone of his caliber signed for the contract that he is under. Chicago is not a small market team needing to shed payroll nor (I don't believe) are they in a total rebuilding mode. I just do not see Sale as being available. It reminds me of all the talk of trying to get Felix Hernandez from Seattle. Sale has caused problems for the front office. I believe they would move him, but they will ask much. My fear is that a team like the NYY's, flush with prospects will offer the Chisox, 3 highly rated young players and an Ellsbury or Gardener. If Sale is traded, I'd just as soon see him go to the National League.
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Chris Sale
Nov 22, 2016 23:04:33 GMT -5
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Post by telson13 on Nov 22, 2016 23:04:33 GMT -5
Yeah, Sale has kinda burned his FO bridges, and Chicago pretty clearly isn't going to compete as constituted, particularly with the Indians as strong as they are, and neither KC nor Detroit dead yet. The White Sox are probably best served by getting a young, cost-controlled MLBer and a couple of prospects than keeping Sale. He's essentially guaranteed to leave in three years, and if they wait too long his value really starts dropping. There's a huge difference between two and three cost-controlled years when you're talking about trading away excess value. Chicago would probably be better off getting back a 3-4 WAR player who fits a need (CF), and two prospects who are solid bets to be average-or-better contributors. It saves them money for 4-6 years, and fills more holes for them. They're going to need a replacement for Robertson, too, so I can see them selling him off as well, and starting a rebuild around Quintana/Eaton/Abreu. From what I've read, basically all teams use the concept of "excess value" when it comes to trades, which means that if Sale is awesome (6 WAR/yr), he's worth roughly $80-100M in excess value. He's also more valuable to a team with one huge hole at SP (hence, why he's not such a help to the Sox, who have basically five 2.5 WAR or better pitchers) than to the White Sox, who have multiple holes and would probably get a net WAR benefit from filling 3 holes vs what they will lose from 1 (roughly 5 WAR?). It really sounds to me like the Dodgers (DeLeon, Verdugo, Holmes) are the best match. DeLeon goes right into the 2017 rotation, and the other two should be up within 12-18 months. White Sox save about $10M a year, and if they move Robertson, almost $25M a year. Depending on what they get for Robertson, that's 3-4 players ready well before Quintana and Eaton are gone, and within probably a 2-year window for Abreu. That $25M can then go to a key FA (or two) to round out what would be a better *team*, albeit with less star power.
The only way I see the two Sox teams matching up would be if Chicago would take JBJ-Pomeranz-(two of) Martin/Ysla/Jerez for Sale-Spencer Adams and a flier prospect like Alec Hanson and maybe a 4th-OF type like Engel. That would give Chicago two more potential MLB(near)-ready bullpen arms to add to Burdi-Fullmer, making Robertson wholly expendable, and reducing the odds that they need to drop big $ on a 'pen arm. It also dramatically improves the ChiSox OF. Quintana-Rodon-Pomeranz gives them a troika of good lefties, and with Rodon's improvement last year, it doesn't kill their staff. They lose maybe 2-4 WAR at SP, but get it back in the OF, plus an extra year of control. They can also flip Pomeranz if they choose. The Red Sox gain 2-4 WAR at SP, but probably lose the same amount in the OF, unless they make another deal for a LF. It probably hurts them less long-term, since Moncada then goes to RF, Mookie back to CF, Benintendi LF (or some permutation) and Devers 3b. Still not a great move for Boston, since it's basically a lateral one short-term. But it could pay off in a year or two for both teams, and the Red Sox getting a couple of useful prospects back helps.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 23, 2016 19:35:24 GMT -5
You really think DeLeon, Verdugo and Holmes can get Sale? That's 3 really good prospects, but no super elite ones. Not one of them was top 50 on Keith Laws mid season update. I mean the Yankees got one higher rated prospect for each of Miller and Chapman. I'm going off of Keith Law ranking, not sure if other places have them rated higher. If I'm White Sox I'm demanding Urias if you want Sale. The problem with Dodgers is that there top 3 really elite guys are all now in majors.
In this market the price for sale is going to be crazy high.
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larrycook
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Chris Sale
Nov 23, 2016 22:34:03 GMT -5
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Post by larrycook on Nov 23, 2016 22:34:03 GMT -5
We have three all stars, Bradley Pomeranz and wright, plus a number of highly regarded prospects (not named kopech, groome or moncada). Plus guys like swihart, shaw and Marco Hernandez who could be regulars if in the right situation.
How bad does dombrowski want a Quintana or sale?
Come on Dave, time to work some magic!
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Chris Sale
Nov 23, 2016 22:47:27 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by telson13 on Nov 23, 2016 22:47:27 GMT -5
You really think DeLeon, Verdugo and Holmes can get Sale? That's 3 really good prospects, but no super elite ones. Not one of them was top 50 on Keith Laws mid season update. I mean the Yankees got one higher rated prospect for each of Miller and Chapman. I'm going off of Keith Law ranking, not sure if other places have them rated higher. If I'm White Sox I'm demanding Urias if you want Sale. The problem with Dodgers is that there top 3 really elite guys are all now in majors. In this market the price for sale is going to be crazy high. I would be absolutely shocked if the Dodgers parted with Urias under any circumstance. They'd probably need to add another player (Puig?), but Seager and Urias aren't going anywhere. Maybe NYY if they'd part with Torres/Frazier/Severino+. Or even Atlanta, if they think they can rebuild quickly. The problem for Chicago is that the market is limited by their demands. The list of teams with need *and* high-end prospects, in combo, is relatively short. The Cubs? Unlikely. The Nationals, starting with Giolito? Maybe...
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