SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
2014 World Series gameday thread
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 29, 2014 22:33:57 GMT -5
Like Oprah, too much Bum.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Oct 29, 2014 22:35:52 GMT -5
Wow. Bumgarner is cold. Congrats to the Giants. Man, not only did they have the book on Perez, they wrote it. Bumgarner found the hole in his swing and poured a dozen fastballs through it. The KC team has the entire winter to figure the guy out. They sure couldn't do it this series.
|
|
|
Post by Don Caballero on Oct 29, 2014 22:37:30 GMT -5
Gregor Blanco almost became infamous. JBJ makes that catch standing up and likely taking a snooze mid route. I still can't get over Gordon not going there. If Posey gets in your way, you try to kill him or something. You don't trust Perez to not swing at fasballs in his forehead.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 29, 2014 22:44:14 GMT -5
I've never seen a man get so exhausted giving away a car.
|
|
|
Post by pedroelgrande on Oct 29, 2014 22:52:04 GMT -5
Chevy: Technology and stuff.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 29, 2014 23:05:16 GMT -5
Chevy: Technology and stuff. I am a fan of technology and stuff. This vehicle has intrigued me.
|
|
ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,881
|
Post by ericmvan on Oct 29, 2014 23:08:51 GMT -5
Vehemently disagree with giving up an out on a sac bunt there -- even worse, keeping it on when you're up in the count 2-0. Bumgarner career: .239 / .289 / .366 After 2-0 count (just 11% of PA): .268 / .464 / .433 More relevantly, On 2-0 count (just 17% of the above): .371 / .361 / .729. I'm going to rewind my recording sometime tonight because I really want to know where that pitch was. My memory is that it was a get-it-over, go-ahead-and-bunt-it and hence very hittable pitch. In which case, the expectation value may have been something like the above, especially with how well Escobar has been hitting. The thing is, taking off the bunt after the pitcher gets behind 2-0 is something even rigid, old-school managers like Yost should have in their playbook. It takes sabermetric analysis to determine that the bunt is often a bad move, but everyone knows that results are dramatically better after the count goes 2-0. And the irony therefore is that if Yost had ever done that, Bumgarner probably would have thrown a tougher pitch. But Yost wasn't flexible enough to exploit his own predictability. Bench coach Don Wakamatsu has to share some blame. If it doesn't occur to Yost, he has to be able to talk him into that, given how out-of-synch Bumgarner looked at that point and given the probability that he would find his rhythm and be Bumgarner again.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Oct 29, 2014 23:12:44 GMT -5
So, Madison Bumgarner's postseason reminded me of Orel Hershiser's 1988. Then I realized that Bumgarner wasn't even born yet when that happened. I'm going to go crawl into a hole and cry until March.
|
|
|
Post by redsox4242 on Oct 30, 2014 1:32:00 GMT -5
Pablo, please come join the Red Sox.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Oct 30, 2014 6:38:22 GMT -5
What's the last World Series Champion team to have a single player account for that much value? I mean, the Giants didn't have another starting pitcher they could count on, at all, to even last 2 innings. Papi had to have been close last year.
|
|
|
Post by ancientsoxfogey on Oct 30, 2014 7:52:54 GMT -5
Two comments.
(1) The ending of the Series was eerily reminiscent of the ending of the 1978 play-in game. Tying run on 3rd, weak foul popup (in that case, by Yaz) to 3rd to end it.
(2) As I get older, it seems to me that championships are proving to be less and less validating about top quality in the sport. Neither of these teams was especially imposing. The expansion of playoffs is great for revenue and generating enthusiasm in more cities, but it is beginning to feel as if true quality of a team matters less, and playing well for a few weeks under much different circumstances than define excellence in the regular season is what creates the final team left standing. I'm having more and more trouble getting either excited or impressed by that. The baseball may have had its exciting moments this postseason, but you can't tell me that the anticipation of the faceoff of excellence is anything like occurred in, let's take for example, 1975. Now, beyond good and exciting baseball, THAT was a matchup.
But maybe that's me just getting to be an older and grouchier curmudgeon.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 30, 2014 10:22:29 GMT -5
(2) As I get older, it seems to me that championships are proving to be less and less validating about top quality in the sport. Neither of these teams was especially imposing. The expansion of playoffs is great for revenue and generating enthusiasm in more cities, but it is beginning to feel as if true quality of a team matters less, and playing well for a few weeks under much different circumstances than define excellence in the regular season is what creates the final team left standing. I'm having more and more trouble getting either excited or impressed by that. The baseball may have had its exciting moments this postseason, but you can't tell me that the anticipation of the faceoff of excellence is anything like occurred in, let's take for example, 1975. Now, beyond good and exciting baseball, THAT was a matchup. But maybe that's me just getting to be an older and grouchier curmudgeon. People are calling the Giants a dynasty and during their five year run they've exceeded 90 wins twice and 95 wins not at all. I'm not necessarily saying that's wrong but at the very least, the game has changed. We're in an era that features both extreme parity and expanded playoffs, and that combination means we're going to have to get used to 88 win teams as World Champions. On a certain philosophical level, this bothers me, but as a practical matter I can see why it's probably good for the sport and it certainly produces a ton of great games every October (though you could argue it eliminates them in September). It's probably not the system I would design if it were up to me, but ultimately it's more fun to just enjoy it for what it is and not worry about all the flaws in the system. It's just baseball.
|
|
hank
Rookie
Posts: 95
|
Post by hank on Oct 30, 2014 11:23:10 GMT -5
They didn't make anything of it on the broadcast but just how slow does Alex Gordon have to be to not score there? You're looking at what should have been an iconic play in the history of the game. Except it wasn't. Still kind of shocking. I think you send David Ortiz there and he makes it. You watch Gordon running it looks like he's running on the beach. If it goes extra's I like KC's chances.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 30, 2014 11:50:02 GMT -5
They didn't make anything of it on the broadcast but just how slow does Alex Gordon have to be to not score there? You're looking at what should have been an iconic play in the history of the game. Except it wasn't. Still kind of shocking. I think you send David Ortiz there and he makes it. You watch Gordon running it looks like he's running on the beach. If it goes extra's I like KC's chances. A photo has come out this morning showing that the cutoff man had the ball and Gordon wasn't even at third yet. The broadcast made it seem like Gordon was much farther along, apparently, than he was. I wanted them to send him for the sheer excitement of it, but he was dead to rights with even a below-average throw, as long is it didn't completely get away from the catcher.
|
|
hank
Rookie
Posts: 95
|
Post by hank on Oct 30, 2014 12:36:05 GMT -5
They didn't make anything of it on the broadcast but just how slow does Alex Gordon have to be to not score there? You're looking at what should have been an iconic play in the history of the game. Except it wasn't. Still kind of shocking. I think you send David Ortiz there and he makes it. You watch Gordon running it looks like he's running on the beach. If it goes extra's I like KC's chances. A photo has come out this morning showing that the cutoff man had the ball and Gordon wasn't even at third yet. The broadcast made it seem like Gordon was much farther along, apparently, than he was. I wanted them to send him for the sheer excitement of it, but he was dead to rights with even a below-average throw, as long is it didn't completely get away from the catcher. I don't disagree with this, you had to hold him. I'm just pointing out that Gordon's run to third took longer than any home to third trip I think I've even seen. We're talking 1976 Deron Johnson dragging the piano behind him slow. I think Mookie Betts scores standing.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Oct 30, 2014 12:38:05 GMT -5
They didn't make anything of it on the broadcast but just how slow does Alex Gordon have to be to not score there? You're looking at what should have been an iconic play in the history of the game. Except it wasn't. Still kind of shocking. I think you send David Ortiz there and he makes it. You watch Gordon running it looks like he's running on the beach. If it goes extra's I like KC's chances. A photo has come out this morning showing that the cutoff man had the ball and Gordon wasn't even at third yet. The broadcast made it seem like Gordon was much farther along, apparently, than he was. I wanted them to send him for the sheer excitement of it, but he was dead to rights with even a below-average throw, as long is it didn't completely get away from the catcher. Or even better, statcast video. Probably would have taken a really bad throw for him to be safe. But then again, Bumgarner wasn't giving up anything at all so maybe it would have been worth it. m.mlb.com/video/topic/73955164/v36878179/ws2014-gm7-gordon-hustles-to-third-in-9th-inning
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 30, 2014 12:46:30 GMT -5
I love 7 game World Series and I love it when toward the end of the game I still don't know for sure who's going to win. I did suspect that Bumgarner would retire Perez, though. His command was pretty good. He kept throwing that high fastball in the same spot, not way too high where it's taken for an obvious ball, and not too low where it becomes a meatball. He kept executing his pitches in that one spot never messing up with his command.
Bumgarner was very impressive. The Giants and their "dynasty" are probably the least impressive "dynasty" I've ever seen. But congratulations to them. The fans of SF were shut out from 1958 thru 2009 and now they have three Championships in 5 years. Guess that's the way it goes sometimes. Win 5 Championships in 16 seasons, go on an 85 year drought, and then win three in the following decade - that's the Sox story anyways and now the Giants have matched them with 8 Championships although they've lost 12 World Series while the Sox lost 4 World Series.
The one other thought I had was how amazingly and agonizingly slow Alex Gordon is. It's too bad. If one of their guys like Escobar or Cain or Dyson had gotten that misplayed single, they probably would have circled the bases. The LF boxed his initial pickup of the ball after it had skidded past Blanco all the way to the wall. I couldn't believe that Gordon was just getting to 3b. Too bad. If he had been one of those speedsters and scored to tie the game, there's no way the Royals lose and Blanco would have been a goat for life like Fred Merkle and Fred Snodgrass.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Oct 30, 2014 13:11:58 GMT -5
A photo has come out this morning showing that the cutoff man had the ball and Gordon wasn't even at third yet. The broadcast made it seem like Gordon was much farther along, apparently, than he was. I wanted them to send him for the sheer excitement of it, but he was dead to rights with even a below-average throw, as long is it didn't completely get away from the catcher. I don't disagree with this, you had to hold him. I'm just pointing out that Gordon's run to third took longer than any home to third trip I think I've even seen. We're talking 1976 Deron Johnson dragging the piano behind him slow. I think Mookie Betts scores standing. He slowed down slightly at first base because he thought Blanco was going to handle it cleanly. It seems unrealistic to expect every player to sprint to first and round the bases aggressively on what looked to be a run-of-the-mill single. But even had he been sprinting from the get-go, Gordon would still likely have been unable to score. Crawford (the relay man) received the ball 12 seconds after contact (source: deadspin.com/no-alex-gordon-could-not-have-scored-on-the-misplayed-1652625998 ), so a runner would have to be able to round the bases in 14 seconds or so. Maybe only a half-dozen players in baseball can do that (Billy Hamilton has been timed at 13.8 seconds). Granted, maybe Mookie is one of them, but I still think you've got mostly unrealistic expectations here.
|
|
pd
Rookie
Posts: 236
|
Post by pd on Oct 30, 2014 18:00:16 GMT -5
He seemed excruciatingly slow to me as well. The replay made it look like he slowed down between 2nd and 3rd as well, perhaps not anticipating the bobble at the wall. Everybody I was watching with was yelling "he's going to score". Would have made for an epic finish.
|
|
ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,405
|
Post by ianrs on Oct 30, 2014 18:05:14 GMT -5
Did anyone else see this? Hilariously awkward.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Oct 30, 2014 19:05:43 GMT -5
It seemed excruciatingly slow because there was so much happening at once that our mind slows down to process it all. Like jmei said, Crawford had the ball after 12 seconds of contact. A lot happened in a VERY short amount of time, which made it seem like a much longer time.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Oct 30, 2014 20:35:30 GMT -5
Yeah, a play like that where the World Series is literally on the line gets us all excited, which makes time seem to go slower than it actually does, but in actuality, the ball didn't get away far enough for anyone but the fastest handful of guys in the league to have easily scored.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 21:34:40 GMT -5
So much NaCl here. The Giants are a Dynasty. They have done it 3 times in the last 5 years. My respect to the champions.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 31, 2014 9:42:57 GMT -5
It seemed excruciatingly slow because there was so much happening at once that our mind slows down to process it all. Like jmei said, Crawford had the ball after 12 seconds of contact. A lot happened in a VERY short amount of time, which made it seem like a much longer time. Right. It seems like the outfielders were fumbling around for two minutes.
|
|
|
Post by soxcentral on Nov 1, 2014 8:58:14 GMT -5
Didn't someone here, years ago, propose a trade of Manny Ramirez for Bumgarner and Sandoval? Can't remember who, but it has turned out to be quite an impressive judge of what was, at the time, unproven talent.
|
|
|