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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 17, 2015 21:47:41 GMT -5
There's also a big difference between Gattis and WMB: Gattis is a good baseball player. People seriously need to let the WMB hype train go by, it's just not happening. There'll be other ones (the Keith Couch Wagon currently has space for all takers).
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 17, 2015 22:12:02 GMT -5
MiLB.com ?@milb 5m5 minutes ago Report: #Cubs sign veteran right-hander Daniel Bard to a Minor League contract with an invitation to Spring Training. atmlb.com/1yaZh13 |
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jan 18, 2015 16:01:10 GMT -5
Out of curiosity who is on the keith couch train?
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jan 18, 2015 16:06:01 GMT -5
Everyone should be. The only pitcher with #1 potential in the system.
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Post by kman22 on Jan 18, 2015 17:01:25 GMT -5
If the Nats sign Scherzer, does Zimmermann get moved?
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Post by artfuldodger on Jan 18, 2015 17:03:39 GMT -5
According to Heyman, there seems to be movement in Scherzer talks. I wonder what the start of the dominos means for red soc.
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Post by jmei on Jan 18, 2015 17:12:37 GMT -5
If the Nats sign Scherzer, does Zimmermann get moved? It would give them a rotation of Scherzer, Strasburg, Gonzalez, Zimmermann, Fister, and Roark, and you'd expect one of those guys to get moved. |
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Post by iakovos11 on Jan 18, 2015 19:34:48 GMT -5
Out of curiosity who is on the keith couch train? Don Caballero is driving and I'm riding shotgun. Everyone else is climbing in the back. |
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 18, 2015 19:58:25 GMT -5
@adamkilgorewp
Per a source, Max Scherzer to the Nats is "very close." Not finished yet.
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Baseless speculation: 7/$190.
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nomar
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Posts: 11,531
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Post by nomar on Jan 18, 2015 23:55:07 GMT -5
Out of curiosity who is on the keith couch train? Don Caballero is driving and I'm riding shotgun. Everyone else is climbing in the back. Enticing |
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KB24
Rookie
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Post by KB24 on Jan 19, 2015 9:13:24 GMT -5
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Post by mattpicard on Jan 19, 2015 11:22:24 GMT -5
Jeff Passan
?@jeffpassan
Source: Luis Valbuena going to Astros along with Dan Straily in deal for Dexter Fowler.
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Astros get a nifty upgrade at third base, which was the one spot they were getting replacement level production from. I'd assume Springer becomes the CF, with Marisnick/Presley manning right, although that's pretty weak.
Fowler, Alcantara, and Coghlan is a nice little LF/CF split for the Cubs.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 19, 2015 13:49:45 GMT -5
@adamkilgorewp Per a source, Max Scherzer to the Nats is "very close." Not finished yet. ------------------------ Baseless speculation: 7/$190. Turns out you're low, and I certainly was. ESPN is reporting 7/$210 million. Boras strikes again. As others have pointed out, it's foolish to doubt the guy. He brings the cash to the table for his clients. |
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Post by jmei on Jan 19, 2015 13:54:05 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 19, 2015 14:34:47 GMT -5
I wonder if they did it just to say he got 7/$210. So that's barely more than Lester and could be less if Lester's option kicks in?
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 19, 2015 14:36:16 GMT -5
Right. It's still great money....but I don't view this as a win for Boras. I think this signifies a market correction for free agent pitchers in general. Higher signing bonuses and no mega contracts for guys over 30.
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Post by jmei on Jan 19, 2015 14:38:00 GMT -5
I wonder if they did it just to say he got 7/$210. So that's barely more than Lester and could be less if Lester's option kicks in? No, it's still more than Lester's contract even if the option vests. It's just not that much more. |
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 19, 2015 14:40:23 GMT -5
Interesting. Thanks for the link, jmei. I'd only briefly caught the blurb at ESPN. In this case, the devil really is in the details. Maybe we'll be seeing more of this in the future.
Add: Given the way discount rates are often abused for monetizing the future value of natural resources, I'm not a huge fan. That's my own personal bias. But this contract shows clearly why they're useful. That FanGraphs article also mentions that the money for Scherzer might have been better spent. The team will, after all, have a lot of players looking for a bigger payday next year. That does bring up the question of what else they might have in store. I'm not wholly convinced they're done.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 19, 2015 14:49:30 GMT -5
I wonder if they did it just to say he got 7/$210. So that's barely more than Lester and could be less if Lester's option kicks in? No, it's still more than Lester's contract even if the option vests. It's just not that much more. If Lester's contract vests it's 7/170. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 19, 2015 14:50:15 GMT -5
I wonder if they did it just to say he got 7/$210. So that's barely more than Lester and could be less if Lester's option kicks in?
The story that's being told is that it was done for tax (possibly both individual income and team luxury) purposes...$15 million / year for the next 14 years...Additionally, $50 million of the $210 million is deferred for an undisclosed period.
So $15 million/year puts him in a lower tax bracket? I find that farfetched. |
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Post by jmei on Jan 19, 2015 15:00:20 GMT -5
No, it's still more than Lester's contract even if the option vests. It's just not that much more. If Lester's contract vests it's 7/170. Read the link. Lester's $170m needs to be converted to NPV to compare apples to apples, and when it is, it's still less than Scherzer's NPV. |
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Post by jmei on Jan 19, 2015 15:03:43 GMT -5
I wonder if they did it just to say he got 7/$210. So that's barely more than Lester and could be less if Lester's option kicks in?
The story that's being told is that it was done for tax (possibly both individual income and team luxury) purposes...$15 million / year for the next 14 years...Additionally, $50 million of the $210 million is deferred for an undisclosed period. It will be extremely interesting to see how years 8 through 14 of this contract categorize Scherzer's role with the club. If the argument is that, for those years, Scherzer will be compensated for "personal services" other than as a player, then perhaps Boras has found an end around the luxury tax by recategorizing how the salary is to be received.
FYI, there's no report of this type of chicanery. The deferred money does have an impact on the luxury tax calculations, but it's a very minor one. See here: |
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 19, 2015 15:05:08 GMT -5
So $15 million/year puts him in a lower tax bracket? I find that farfetched. Just for the sake of argument, let's say that the $15 million / year paid to Scherzer for years 8 through 14 was paid for "personal services" he performed for the club not in Washington, D.C. but in the state of Florida (Let's say he'll be an extremely well paid "scout), then should he not be entitled to be exempted from state income tax on that portion (since Florida has no state income tax)? I guess? But he also might still be pitching for part of that. I can't imagine the difference is more than the devaluation due to inflation. |
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Post by jmei on Jan 19, 2015 15:22:35 GMT -5
I don't doubt that there are federal/state income tax intricacies involved for both player and team. But all reports indicate that they didn't structure the payouts the way they did in an attempt to avoid or circumvent the MLB Competitive Balance Tax (the luxury tax), which is what I was objecting to.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 19, 2015 15:29:46 GMT -5
If the net present value on Scherzer's contract is $131 million, that's about $39 million less than the equal NPV of $170 million over 7 years instead of 14. I cannot imagine that the backloading and deferrals in the deal is worth $39 million in fewer tax dollars paid.
I'd put the tax savings argument more on Boras saving face on a less than expected contract. And maybe the rest of it on giving the Nationals an easier way of handling cash flow.
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