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Post by James Dunne on Dec 22, 2014 13:52:36 GMT -5
Hughes probably isn't as good as last year, but I did think he was a really good buy for the Twins at this time last season and obviously nothing in the meantime has changed my mind. Yankee Stadium for him was about as wrong as a park can be for a player. In general I don't love extensions for pitchers so far in the future, but $14M AAV makes it worth the risk I think. He's now effectively on a 5/$58M contract which is well within reason, even if he settles in at more like a 2.5 WAR type of guy.
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Post by jmei on Dec 22, 2014 16:30:09 GMT -5
Hughes' extension is like the Pedroia contract-- it's just hard for a $14m AAV to be any sort of disaster, so there's not a ton of downside.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 22, 2014 18:24:26 GMT -5
Meghan Montemurro ? m_Montemurro 1h1 hour ago #Phillies have signed 3 players to minor league contracts w/invite to MLB spring training: 1B McGuiness and RHP’s O’Sullivan & Kevin Slowey
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 22, 2014 19:22:40 GMT -5
Hughes' extension is like the Pedroia contract-- it's just hard for a $14m AAV to be any sort of disaster, so there's not a ton of downside. I guess it depends what you mean by a disaster but this is the twins. It has a legit chance to be a contract that very much handicaps them.
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 22, 2014 19:28:25 GMT -5
....and I hope they effect the trade. The Sox are in an enviable position and I hope they have the patience to hold to it.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 22, 2014 19:29:23 GMT -5
Eh, if they decide they are at their self-imposed budget the deal isn't likely to be unmovable, even as a straight salary dump.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 22, 2014 19:58:29 GMT -5
Not if he's not worth the money hey won't be able to... My point is not to say it's a bad move. It's to draw attention the fact it can hurt them. To act as if it's the same as if the Red Sox had a dead 14m is foolhardy. Things aren't changing that much. 14m won't be the new 5m.
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Post by suttree on Dec 23, 2014 17:02:06 GMT -5
I would take the Hughes contract in a heartbeat, well, maybe not at Fenway, but in a neutral park.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 23, 2014 19:58:59 GMT -5
If Ryan got a few bucks for everytime he got claimed, he'd be rich. 4 teams in a month: MiLB.com ?@milb 13m13 minutes ago #Orioles claim catcher @ryanlavarnway off waivers from @cubs. atmlb.com/1CETTmO Does that make him the most wanted or unwanted ?
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Post by chavopepe2 on Dec 23, 2014 20:03:24 GMT -5
If Ryan got a few bucks for everytime he got claimed, he'd be rich. 4 teams in a month: MiLB.com ?@milb 13m13 minutes ago #Orioles claim catcher @ryanlavarnway off waivers from @cubs. atmlb.com/1CETTmO Does that make him the most wanted or unwanted ? If nothing else he is the most borderline roster able player in the league.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 23, 2014 20:10:16 GMT -5
Ace of MLB Stats ?@aceballstats 3h3 hours ago Career defensive runs saved (all-time rank)
#Orioles Cal Ripken Jr. 180.7 (9th) #Yankees Derek Jeter -246.3 (18,408th)
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Dec 23, 2014 21:04:51 GMT -5
Happy festivus right there.
I never got the captain bs.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 23, 2014 22:00:44 GMT -5
Probably had something to do with the 4,717 times he got on base in his career, #12 all time.
Jeter was a historically bad defensive shortstop. Posting about it in here is preaching to the choir. His bat and amazing durability more than made up for it.
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Dec 23, 2014 22:51:41 GMT -5
Probably had something to do with the 4,717 times he got on base in his career, #12 all time. Jeter was a historically bad defensive shortstop. Posting about it in here is preaching to the choir. His bat and amazing durability more than made up for it. What a total pile. So amazing durability that kept him on the field for more historically bad defense? Net effect is the most historically overrated in a typical ny way. The bottom line is you can't buy in on modern analysis and jJeter. That argument sailedv a long time ago. But I'm full of the Festivus spirit so I'm moving on. So Sherzer or Shields, which one is on the dl first in 2015?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 23, 2014 22:59:16 GMT -5
WAR includes defense. According to FanGraphs, Jeter produced 73.5 career WAR. In today's dollars that $514m of production. Like him or not, to say that the bat more than made up for the defense is an understatement.
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Post by ethanbein on Dec 23, 2014 23:17:08 GMT -5
Jeter was a historically bad SS, maybe, but defender? Not at all. SS is the hardest position. His range would've been fine enough at 2nd or 3rd and he really was an excellent hitter for a long, long time. He's earned his reputation.
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Post by bjb406 on Dec 24, 2014 4:15:05 GMT -5
I honestly am skeptical he should be in the HOF. Not first ballot anyway. That has a lot to do with what I think makes a hall of famer: I think it should have more to do with being at the pinnacle of the position and the game. In Jeter's case, there really never was a time he was the best in the game. Early on Nomar and Arod were better, then when Nomar broke down and Arod moved positions Hanley Ramirez and Jose Reyes were better, the last few years Tulo has been the best and Jeter has been below league average.
The perfect comparable for him is Craig Biggio. Both guys were above average for a really long time (10th and 11th in career PAs), with like 2 years where they were among the top 10 or so guys in the league, and never a real MVP worthy season. Biggio will almost certainly get in before long, but hasn't made it yet in 2 attempts. The only significant difference between the two is that one played his entire career in the biggest fanbase in the game, while the other played for one of the smallest.
The hall of fame should be about celebrating moments in time, so I think players who were iconic and clearly the best at there position and among the best in the game, even if its for a relatively short time, are at least as if not more deserving ...**cough (nomar) cough**...
With Jeter, the most remarkable thing about his career is the huge number of PAs. His actual performance on a per plate appearance basis, its good, but kinda meh. Certainly not worthy of a first ballot HoF, and not even on the same planet as being worthy of every team in the league being basically forced to give you a going away gift.
anyway, rant over, nothing to see here.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 24, 2014 5:07:26 GMT -5
I think it's more a case of non-Yankee fans pooh poohing it because he was a Yankee or are too recent baseball fans to remember anything past the last 2-3 years. 21 years of 3.5 WAR doesn't deserve the HOF ? Reference Biggio, Jeter provided his team 13% more value.
On another note, 6 hrs to go: Maayong Pasko, Mabuhay to all.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 24, 2014 5:58:33 GMT -5
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Post by johnsilver52 on Dec 24, 2014 10:29:04 GMT -5
I think it's more a case of non-Yankee fans pooh poohing it because he was a Yankee or are too recent baseball fans to remember anything past the last 2-3 years. 21 years of 3.5 WAR doesn't deserve the HOF ? Reference Biggio, Jeter provided his team 13% more value. On another note, 6 hrs to go: Maayong Pasko, Mabuhay to all. I'm with you there. Unless you are a MLB sinner (gambling on the game, PED bust) HOF auto for 3k hits and Jeter's got them. That's got to be the hardest probably "line" goal for a hitter to accomplish. Everyone just think of all the great NYY hitter's, Jeter's the only one to hit that target. He deserves it.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 24, 2014 10:46:24 GMT -5
I honestly am skeptical he should be in the HOF. Not first ballot anyway. That has a lot to do with what I think makes a hall of famer: I think it should have more to do with being at the pinnacle of the position and the game. In Jeter's case, there really never was a time he was the best in the game. Early on Nomar and Arod were better, then when Nomar broke down and Arod moved positions Hanley Ramirez and Jose Reyes were better, the last few years Tulo has been the best and Jeter has been below league average. The perfect comparable for him is Craig Biggio. Both guys were above average for a really long time (10th and 11th in career PAs), with like 2 years where they were among the top 10 or so guys in the league, and never a real MVP worthy season. Biggio will almost certainly get in before long, but hasn't made it yet in 2 attempts. The only significant difference between the two is that one played his entire career in the biggest fanbase in the game, while the other played for one of the smallest. The hall of fame should be about celebrating moments in time, so I think players who were iconic and clearly the best at there position and among the best in the game, even if its for a relatively short time, are at least as if not more deserving ...**cough (nomar) cough**...With Jeter, the most remarkable thing about his career is the huge number of PAs. His actual performance on a per plate appearance basis, its good, but kinda meh. Certainly not worthy of a first ballot HoF, and not even on the same planet as being worthy of every team in the league being basically forced to give you a going away gift. anyway, rant over, nothing to see here. Are you familiar with the term "motivated reasoning"?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 24, 2014 11:03:52 GMT -5
Brandon Jacobs released by the Diamondbacks.
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Dec 24, 2014 11:23:58 GMT -5
Brandon Jacobs released by the Diamondbacks. In reference to your tweet, Jacobs was traded for Thornton, not Peavy.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Dec 24, 2014 12:18:53 GMT -5
I honestly am skeptical he should be in the HOF. Not first ballot anyway. That has a lot to do with what I think makes a hall of famer: I think it should have more to do with being at the pinnacle of the position and the game. In Jeter's case, there really never was a time he was the best in the game. Early on Nomar and Arod were better, then when Nomar broke down and Arod moved positions Hanley Ramirez and Jose Reyes were better, the last few years Tulo has been the best and Jeter has been below league average. Derek Jeter had fives seasons where he put up 5 or more FWAR. That is elite production and one hell of a peak even if those seasons where not in succession.The perfect comparable for him is Craig Biggio. Both guys were above average you must have very high expectations for what is average. If we go with an average startrer should be worth roughly 2 fwar then Jeter only had 3 average seasons in his career and one below average season in his 18 years. Every other season he averaged being twice as valuable as an average player. a really long time (10th and 11th in career PAs), with like 2 years where they were among the top 10 or so guys in the league, and never a real MVP worthy season. Biggio will almost certainly get in before long, but hasn't made it yet in 2 attempts. The only significant difference between the two is that one played his entire career in the biggest fanbase in the game, while the other played for one of the smallest. The hall of fame should be about celebrating moments in time, so I think players who were iconic and clearly the best at there position and among the best in the game, even if its for a relatively short time, are at least as if not more deserving ...**cough (nomar) cough**... This is where I get really confused by your argument. Nomar's career highlight reel includes giving Ted Williams a hug at the 99 All Star Game. Jeter's highlight reel includes numerous playoff and world series changing hits, average plays that his lack of range made look difficult, and so on. Jeter was a keystone figure in a team that won a lot of games .
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 24, 2014 12:24:39 GMT -5
But I chanted "Nomar's Better" in 1998 and darnit I'm not changing my mind now.
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