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Matching up with the Mets
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Post by jmei on Nov 8, 2014 15:06:44 GMT -5
There's some discussion already on this subject in the Cespedes thread, but I thought I'd break this out to include non-Cespedes ideas. The Mets seem to match up well with the Red Sox, since they have Murphy (an appealing 3B stopgap) and a few potentially appealing pitchers (Colon, Gee, Niese, perhaps a young guy like Wheeler or DeGrom) and need outfield help and salary relief. For instance, Eno Sarris of Fangraphs drops one idea: If the Mets believe enough in Victorino's durability and are willing to use this as a framework of a deal, I'd be for it. Colon is one of those guys who is chronically underrated-- he's fat and old, but he's got such good fastball command that he's been an above-average starter four years in a row despite throwing his four-seamer 80%+ of the time. He'd fit in well as a mid/back-end starter, and Murphy is an ideal fit at 3B, all this for a guy in Victorino who's an expensive backup on an expiring contract who might grumble if he's sitting in favor of Betts/Castillo. |
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Post by theburn on Nov 8, 2014 15:30:09 GMT -5
Didn't Colon essentially abandon the Red Sox in the middle of their pennant race in 2008? I get that he's been a reliable starter of late, but if the Sox are building this team for the playoffs, then I'm not exactly thrilled with the idea of Colon wearing a Sox uniform again.
Sign me up for Cespedes, Marrero, plus a pitching prospect or two for Niese and Murphy, but count me out on Colon.
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Post by mainesox on Nov 8, 2014 15:41:27 GMT -5
Not really a fan of Murphy. I could be okay with it if he doesn't really cost us anything, but he's a poor defender and a mediocre hitter. I'd be okay with that deal if they took on Vic's contract, but I'm not excited at all about Murphy, and I probably keep looking for a 3B even after making that deal.
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Post by jmei on Nov 8, 2014 15:50:05 GMT -5
Yeah, the 2008 stuff is a potential issue with Colon, and he's always been a grouchy sort. But that's part of the reason why the Mets haven't been able to move him despite his solid track record, and I'm willing to overlook it if the overall trade is favorable enough. Part of Murphy's appeal is that he's a natural 3B who has been forced out of position by Wright's presence in New York. If he's an average or slightly-below-average defensive 3B, his bat will play just fine. Indeed, he compares pretty similarly to old friend Jed Lowrie, with fewer injury issues. He'll also be a cheap enough pickup-- I think Victorino for Colon or Gee and Murphy would be something the Mets would jump on, as would Niese/Murphy for Cespedes. |
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Post by mainesox on Nov 8, 2014 16:13:29 GMT -5
Yeah, the 2008 stuff is a potential issue with Colon, and he's always been a grouchy sort. But that's part of the reason why the Mets haven't been able to move him despite his solid track record, and I'm willing to overlook it if the overall trade is favorable enough. Part of Murphy's appeal is that he's a natural 3B who has been forced out of position by Wright's presence in New York. If he's an average or slightly-below-average defensive 3B, his bat will play just fine. Indeed, he compares pretty similarly to old friend Jed Lowrie, with fewer injury issues. He'll also be a cheap enough pickup-- I think Victorino for Colon or Gee and Murphy would be something the Mets would jump on, as would Niese/Murphy for Cespedes. I don't think he's got the arm for 3B (it's supposed to be weak even for 2B); and Lowrie has been a better hitter, and may actually be a better defender at 3B (if tiny sample sizes of UZR and DRS mean anything at all he definitely is - but he's also been a lot better at SS than Murphy has been at 2B, so it would make sense), plus Lowrie only costs money. |
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 8, 2014 16:23:24 GMT -5
Actually I believe the Sox match up well with Cincinnati. It has starting pitchers with one year left on their deals and could use a slugging outfielder, also with one year left. The Reds still think they can contend in 2015, and with the addition of more offense, it could be a good trade partner.
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Post by jmei on Nov 8, 2014 16:35:53 GMT -5
Yeah, the 2008 stuff is a potential issue with Colon, and he's always been a grouchy sort. But that's part of the reason why the Mets haven't been able to move him despite his solid track record, and I'm willing to overlook it if the overall trade is favorable enough. Part of Murphy's appeal is that he's a natural 3B who has been forced out of position by Wright's presence in New York. If he's an average or slightly-below-average defensive 3B, his bat will play just fine. Indeed, he compares pretty similarly to old friend Jed Lowrie, with fewer injury issues. He'll also be a cheap enough pickup-- I think Victorino for Colon or Gee and Murphy would be something the Mets would jump on, as would Niese/Murphy for Cespedes. I don't think he's got the arm for 3B (it's supposed to be weak even for 2B); and Lowrie has been a better hitter, and may actually be a better defender at 3B (if tiny sample sizes of UZR and DRS mean anything at all he definitely is - but he's also been a lot better at SS than Murphy has been at 2B, so it would make sense), plus Lowrie only costs money. Murphy isn't some rifle-armed third baseman, but that was never really a big knock on him coming up. Instead, the issue has always been fringy athleticism and footwork, something that hurts Murphy a lot more at 2B than it would at 3B. Lowrie has been a slightly better hitter, but he has durability issues and will require a multi-year, eight-figure AAV commitment. Assuming he comes at a cheap enough trade cost (e.g., for Victorino), I'd prefer Murphy over Lowrie in terms of a second-tier guy. |
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Post by artfuldodger on Nov 8, 2014 16:42:37 GMT -5
A Gee/Murphy trade for Victorino would be the type of value trade that Cherington would seem to love. It also may not preclude a trade with the Reds.
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Post by mainesox on Nov 8, 2014 16:45:51 GMT -5
MLBTR projects 2/22 for Lowrie, and Murphy to get $8.5M in arbitration, so while Lowrie will likely be more expensive it's not by a lot, and his ability to adequately play SS is valuable as well.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 9, 2014 16:20:04 GMT -5
I still think trading for a backend starter is a waste if resources when this team has a plethora of in house options even if two or three of them are traded.
Victorino I don't have issues with trading but I also fully expect a bounce back year from him. If he's got to be moved, good arguments for why he doesn't fit exist, then I'd rather flip him for prospects or bullpen help than than a back end starter. Back end starters are one of the few things this team doesn't need.
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Post by larrycook on Nov 24, 2014 22:57:08 GMT -5
I do not think the Mets would part with wheeler, but cespedes for niece might work,
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Post by redsox1534 on Nov 26, 2014 11:09:14 GMT -5
I do not think the Mets would part with wheeler, but cespedes for niece might work, Id give them Cespedes and Marrero for Wheeler no thanks on Niese we need way more then a avg number 3 starter who has had hard time staying healthy |
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 26, 2014 11:45:26 GMT -5
I do not think the Mets would part with wheeler, but cespedes for niece might work, Id give them Cespedes and Marrero for Wheeler no thanks on Niese we need way more then a avg number 3 starter who has had hard time staying healthy Click on the BBCode tab when replying so you can put your text after the last [/quote]. The Preview tab can be wonky. Also, you can edit your posts. |
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Post by bigpapismangosalsa on Nov 28, 2014 20:42:01 GMT -5
With Wheeler, de Grom, Harvey and Syndergaard in the pipeline, I think the Mets would jump all over Niese for Cespedes. That said, while I don't think Cespedes is worth some of the ideas being discussed in these threads, I do think he's a bit more valuable than Niese alone. With our no longer having a need for Murphy to plug in at 3b, I don't think we match up nearly as well with the Mets on a Cespedes deal as we used to before the Sandoval and Ramirez signings.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 30, 2014 18:55:06 GMT -5
Big papi... Did you just jump into every possible trade thread and regurgitate the same conversation?
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Post by larrycook on Nov 30, 2014 23:06:52 GMT -5
When was the last time sandy and the sox consummated a trade?
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 1, 2014 15:22:48 GMT -5
Jake Wesley MLB ?@mlb_nl_al 60m60 minutes ago
Mets are showing significant interest in Red Sox OF Yoenis Cespedes. Red Sox like Harvey, Wheeler, and DeGrom. Sources tell @frankbostontank
The worst thing baseball writers could've done this offseason was give this kid credit for "breaking" a story. Now every guy with a twitter account is an insider and has a "source".
His latest news was about Fernandez getting an extension offer, which was posted by Heyman 20 mins prior, yet he didn't credit him as a source.
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Post by mattpicard on Dec 1, 2014 15:27:05 GMT -5
Jake Wesley MLB ?@mlb_nl_al 60m60 minutes ago Mets are showing significant interest in Red Sox OF Yoenis Cespedes. Red Sox like Harvey, Wheeler, and DeGrom. Sources tell @frankbostontank The worst thing baseball writers could've done this offseason was give this kid credit for "breaking" a story. Now every guy with a twitter account is an insider and has a "source". His latest news was about Fernandez getting an extension offer, which was posted by Heyman 20 mins prior, yet he didn't credit him as a source. Yeah, we really need to stop talking about him. It's become a complete joke. That said, and this certainly hinges on his credibility, but it's nice to know the Sox might like Harvey, Wheeler, and DeGrom. /sarcasm. |
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Post by pedroelgrande on Dec 1, 2014 17:44:16 GMT -5
Completely shocked they like Harvey, Wheeler and DeGrom. I guess they would also like a pony.
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Post by jmei on Dec 1, 2014 18:40:17 GMT -5
Completely shocked they like Harvey, Wheeler and DeGrom. I guess they would also like a pony. I don't know man, a pony is a lot of responsibility. |
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Post by bigpapismangosalsa on Dec 1, 2014 20:59:44 GMT -5
Just to answer a question directed to me re Cespedes(though it might have been rhetorical), it wasn't my intent, but I suppose I may have. The bottom line I suppose is that I don't think he has nearly the value that others on this board do. At this point, I'll just not mention Cespedes again until we see what he's dealt for, or if we can find a trading partner for him; and can agree to disagree with any of those who think he has considerably more value than I do.
I would LOVE to find a way to acquire Wheeler without including Betts, Bogaerts or Swihart, but I don't think there is any reaosn the Mets would deal him without one of those three being involved. Too bad Jake, it was fun while it lasted, though.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 1, 2014 22:39:08 GMT -5
Inside sources tell me that LAA scout was at a PawSox game that Ranaudo pitched this year. Same source tells me BOS "intrigued" by CF M. Trout.
Back to reality, I still think deal framed by Niese-for-Cespedes makes sense for both teams. I know he's not the frontline guy the team wants and probably needs, but he's a clear upgrade to the current roster and the Mets can deal from depth, and the deal doesn't preclude signing Lester or making another trade.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 2, 2014 0:42:15 GMT -5
Inside sources tell me that LAA scout was at a PawSox game that Ranaudo pitched this year. Same source tells me BOS "intrigued" by CF M. Trout. Back to reality, I still think deal framed by Niese-for-Cespedes makes sense for both teams. I know he's not the frontline guy the team wants and probably needs, but he's a clear upgrade to the current roster and the Mets can deal from depth, and the deal doesn't preclude signing Lester or making another trade. I think Niese gets killed in the AL east. He's slightly above average in the NL. He has a career whip of 1.35 in the NL and a 3.8 era. He also doesn't strikeout a lot of batters. Wheeler would be my target and I'd be willing to add to the deal to make it work. |
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,825
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Post by nomar on Dec 2, 2014 1:43:43 GMT -5
DeGrom is overrated a little (huge heart of the order split), so I think he may be more realistic of a target than Wheeler. In either case they would be a steep steep price for Cespedes.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 2, 2014 8:41:27 GMT -5
Inside sources tell me that LAA scout was at a PawSox game that Ranaudo pitched this year. Same source tells me BOS "intrigued" by CF M. Trout. Back to reality, I still think deal framed by Niese-for-Cespedes makes sense for both teams. I know he's not the frontline guy the team wants and probably needs, but he's a clear upgrade to the current roster and the Mets can deal from depth, and the deal doesn't preclude signing Lester or making another trade. I think Niese gets killed in the AL east. He's slightly above average in the NL. He has a career whip of 1.35 in the NL and a 3.8 era. He also doesn't strikeout a lot of batters. Wheeler would be my target and I'd be willing to add to the deal to make it work. Those career numbers aren't really fair to Niese because they weigh his recent solid performance evenly with the stuff from 2011 and earlier, before he'd become a good pitcher. Through his age-24 season (2011), Niese had a 4.39 ERA (87 ERA+), 1.457 WHIP, and walked three per nine innings. Since then, he has a 3.49 ERA in 521 innings, a 1.280 WHIP, and that walk rate per nine is down to 2.5. That's fair if you'd prefer a big strikeout guy, because he isn't that, but he's been a good pitcher. I don't think it makes sense for the Mets to trade Wheeler for a one-year rental. I know they want to compete this year, but I'm guessing not at the expense of 2016-2019 (Wheeler is under team control for that period). Niese's contract is up after 2016, so I think the Mets would risk a slight overall downgrade in 2016 for the upgrade in offense they need in 2015. |
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