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Post by Jonathan Singer on Nov 28, 2014 6:53:02 GMT -5
why sign both Brenly and Spring instead of Blair? they are 30 or so and no projection. I know, they are there for dept...but still. At least, Blair has projection...There are so many catcher in the system...i thought it was time to let go Brenly and Spring and move up some from lower minors. in 2014, just in GCL and Lowell, there were 9 catchers at some point!!! Spring and Brenly are good soldiers and org guys who will do what is asked and help others develop. Blair wanted a better opportunity to reach the bigs and Oakland gives him that. |
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 28, 2014 8:58:11 GMT -5
Why don't Spring and Brenly count? why sign both Brenly and Spring instead of Blair? they are 30 or so and no projection. I know, they are there for dept...but still. At least, Blair has projection...There are so many catcher in the system...i thought it was time to let go Brenly and Spring and move up some from lower minors. in 2014, just in GCL and Lowell, there were 9 catchers at some point!!! Signing players isn't locking them in a cage. They have to want to sign. I imagine Blair wanted a clearer path to the majors. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 28, 2014 17:38:58 GMT -5
Why don't Spring and Brenly count? why sign both Brenly and Spring instead of Blair? they are 30 or so and no projection. I know, they are there for dept...but still. At least, Blair has projection...There are so many catcher in the system...i thought it was time to let go Brenly and Spring and move up some from lower minors. in 2014, just in GCL and Lowell, there were 9 catchers at some point!!! Who said they didn't try to sign him? Spring and Brenly are fungible depth that can go on the DL if there's no room to play them. They easily still had room for Blair in Portland. He may just have wanted to leave, or got a better deal in Oakland. You could understand why, in an organization with Swihart and Vazquez ahead of him, he may have wanted to go elsewhere where he'd get a better shot. And anyway, my point was that they announced MLFA signings already. |
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Post by moonstone2 on Nov 28, 2014 18:36:36 GMT -5
Here's a better question. Why not use your financial muscle to sign 1 to 3 minor league free agents a year by giving them substantially more than anyone else will pay them? Unlike a major league player, 50K is going to be big deal for a minor league free agent, especially one that is not XX(B). If they are ready for AAA give them June 1 opt outs.
If you offer someone like Blair $250K to play in AA, do you think he's going to turn that down? He's probably not even being paid $100K by the A's.
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Post by Mike Andrews on Nov 28, 2014 20:03:49 GMT -5
They already do that.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 28, 2014 20:08:39 GMT -5
Here's a better question. Why not use your financial muscle to sign 1 to 3 minor league free agents a year by giving them substantially more than anyone else will pay them? Unlike a major league player, 50K is going to be big deal for a minor league free agent, especially one that is not XX(B). If they are ready for AAA give them June 1 opt outs. If you offer someone like Blair $250K to play in AA, do you think he's going to turn that down? He's probably not even being paid $100K by the A's. Why do you want to destroy the dreams of ever getting a game in the majors? That lifetime health insurance thing is probably worth a million dollars. |
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Post by Mike Andrews on Nov 28, 2014 20:20:07 GMT -5
The lifetime health insurance thing has been blown out of proportion. It's just the lifetime opportunity to buy into that specific healthcare plan each year. Not free healthcare for life.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 28, 2014 20:26:31 GMT -5
The lifetime health insurance thing has been blown out of proportion. It's just the lifetime opportunity to buy into that specific healthcare plan each year. Not free healthcare for life. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 I shouldn't have made a big deal out of it, but I know I'd want the one game in the majors if I got a shot. Preferably a chance to play regularly. My claim to fame is a double off Mike Mussina in high school and I would love to have some better stories to tell.  |
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Post by moonstone2 on Nov 28, 2014 20:57:13 GMT -5
Here's a better question. Why not use your financial muscle to sign 1 to 3 minor league free agents a year by giving them substantially more than anyone else will pay them? Unlike a major league player, 50K is going to be big deal for a minor league free agent, especially one that is not XX(B). If they are ready for AAA give them June 1 opt outs. If you offer someone like Blair $250K to play in AA, do you think he's going to turn that down? He's probably not even being paid $100K by the A's. Why do you want to destroy the dreams of ever getting a game in the majors? That lifetime health insurance thing is probably worth a million dollars. Why would this destroy anyone's dream of getting to the majors? Catching is so rare, that if Carson Blair were to play well in Portland in 2015 he'd either end up on the 40 man roster, be traded, or have a really good shot at minor league free agency. |
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Post by moonstone2 on Nov 28, 2014 20:57:49 GMT -5
They already do that. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 Do you know if they did that for Blair or not? |
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 28, 2014 21:03:54 GMT -5
Why do you want to destroy the dreams of ever getting a game in the majors? That lifetime health insurance thing is probably worth a million dollars. Why would this destroy anyone's dream of getting to the majors? Catching is so rare, that if Carson Blair were to play well in Portland in 2015 he'd either end up on the 40 man roster, be traded, or have a really good shot at minor league free agency. Because he has Vazquez, Butler and Swihart in front of him in Boston and way less than that in Oakland, along with a much more likely chance of getting called up because they're way more open minded and way less likely to sign someone better. |
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Post by moonstone2 on Nov 28, 2014 21:12:51 GMT -5
Why would this destroy anyone's dream of getting to the majors? Catching is so rare, that if Carson Blair were to play well in Portland in 2015 he'd either end up on the 40 man roster, be traded, or have a really good shot at minor league free agency. Because he has Vazquez, Butler and Swihart in front of him in Boston and way less than that in Oakland, along with a much more likely chance of getting called up because they're way more open minded and way less likely to sign someone better. First off Butler has one option left so unless he is somehow on the major league team in 2015, or isn't optioned this year he's gone after this year. One of Vazquez and Swihart will likely be traded too over the next year or so, maybe even this off-season. Almost all players who are good enough to play in the majors eventually get their chance to do so, especially if they can catch. Had Blair signed with the Sox, been assigned to Portland and played well, he would have gotten his chance eventually too. The idea that because a player at AA is currently blocked that he'll never ever play in the majors if he signs a one year minor league contract with his current club is a little silly. These things change. |
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 29, 2014 7:09:12 GMT -5
Because he has Vazquez, Butler and Swihart in front of him in Boston and way less than that in Oakland, along with a much more likely chance of getting called up because they're way more open minded and way less likely to sign someone better. First off Butler has one option left so unless he is somehow on the major league team in 2015, or isn't optioned this year he's gone after this year. One of Vazquez and Swihart will likely be traded too over the next year or so, maybe even this off-season. Almost all players who are good enough to play in the majors eventually get their chance to do so, especially if they can catch. Had Blair signed with the Sox, been assigned to Portland and played well, he would have gotten his chance eventually too. The idea that because a player at AA is currently blocked that he'll never ever play in the majors if he signs a one year minor league contract with his current club is a little silly. These things change. Argue with him about it. |
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Post by moonstone2 on Nov 29, 2014 17:18:11 GMT -5
First off Butler has one option left so unless he is somehow on the major league team in 2015, or isn't optioned this year he's gone after this year. One of Vazquez and Swihart will likely be traded too over the next year or so, maybe even this off-season. Almost all players who are good enough to play in the majors eventually get their chance to do so, especially if they can catch. Had Blair signed with the Sox, been assigned to Portland and played well, he would have gotten his chance eventually too. The idea that because a player at AA is currently blocked that he'll never ever play in the majors if he signs a one year minor league contract with his current club is a little silly. These things change. Argue with him about it. Carson Blair isn't the one arguing that resigning with the Red Sox would have destroyed his chances to ever play in the majors. YOU ARE! |
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Post by iakovos11 on Nov 29, 2014 17:31:45 GMT -5
Carson Blair isn't the one arguing that resigning with the Red Sox would have destroyed his chances to ever play in the majors. YOU ARE! Are you serious? I think Blair weighed in on this argument by deciding to sign with Oakland. Assuming your argument is true that all players that are good enough will eventually make it the majors, if I were Blair, I'd still want the easier and/or most direct path available. Clearly there appears to be more opportunities in Oakland. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 29, 2014 17:37:41 GMT -5
Moonstone, remind us what your point is? I'm missing it.
Not trying to be a dick - it's just not clear at all that you're doing anything other than being confrontational for the sake of being confrontational.
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Post by moonstone2 on Nov 29, 2014 17:55:45 GMT -5
Carson Blair isn't the one arguing that resigning with the Red Sox would have destroyed his chances to ever play in the majors. YOU ARE! Are you serious? I think Blair weighed in on this argument by deciding to sign with Oakland. Assuming your argument is true that all players that are good enough will eventually make it the majors, if I were Blair, I'd still want the easier and/or most direct path available. Clearly there appears to be more opportunities in Oakland. My original argument was that the Red Sox could have paid a large amount to resign Blair, like $250K or so. I think it's a safe assumption that Oakland is paying him far less than that and he wasn't offered that by the Red Sox. So no, Blair likely DID NOT weigh in on the argument that signing with the Red Sox for far more money would ruin his chances of getting to the majors as Jimed has implied. Minor league baseball players care about salary and factor that into their employment decisions just like we all do. A non XX(B) minor league free agent is usually paid at best $150K, and Blair himself will likely make under $100K. If there was a player you really wanted, to keep but might be blocked, like Blair you could conceivably offer them $250K or more to stay and they likely would accept because no one else would pay them close to that. And no I don't think that offering that "ruins" their chances of ever getting to the majors as jimed implied. |
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Post by Mike Andrews on Nov 29, 2014 18:32:16 GMT -5
Frankly, I think it's safer to assume that the Red Sox offered equal or more money and Blair opted to sign with Oakland.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4
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Post by jmei on Nov 29, 2014 20:19:33 GMT -5
If Blair thought Oakland was, say, 20% more likely to get him to the majors than the Red Sox or, say, likely to get him there a year earlier than the Red Sox would, it would absolutely be rational to turn down an extra $150K for the greater odds/faster timeline of making it to the majors. This is especially true because Blair's preferences may well be different than yours, and you can't assume your preferences (i.e., for the safe $100K in 2015) match Blair's (which may be to maximize his chance at making the majors, even if it means giving up some short-term money to do so).
As such, I absolutely think it's unfair to assume that Blair signing with Oakland means the Red Sox front office cheapened out or whatever with Blair. This is especially true because they're an organization that had historically paid above-market for minor-league deals.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 30, 2014 8:50:45 GMT -5
Every time the Red Sox need a backup catcher, they'd be far more likely to spend money on a backup than to go with a AAA guy if only to keep the depth intact. For example, if Boston were Oakland, Butler probably would have gotten a shot before they spent $10 million on Ross. Or he'd get a shot next season.
I don't really think there's much to complain about.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Nov 30, 2014 16:03:53 GMT -5
Why are people assuming that the A's didn't sign Blair to an unusually good contract?
The A's are a cutting-edge sabermetric team, and note that one nationally respected sabermetrician looked at him in great detail and concluded he was hugely underrated and had absolutely fascinating upside. Granted, that was me, but still ...
I believe there's some history connecting the A's to exploiting market inefficiencies, no? And the low dollars given to mlfa's has recently been identified as a honking big one, ripe for exploitation. If you're thinking Beane wouldn't pony up extra $$ for an mlfa because he's on a tight budget, that's getting it backwards.
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Post by iakovos11 on Nov 30, 2014 17:50:59 GMT -5
If exploiting mlfa market inefficiencies is your strategy for MLB success, then you'll be waiting a long time. Maybe you can acquire a few underrated players, but you're working on the fringes. Most of those will never have a significant impact in the majors.
I think the most likely scenario here is that he didn't feel like his best opportunity is in Boston behind Swihart and CVaz. I know I'd feel that way. Getting an extra $100k the next 2-3 years pales in comparison to what awaits if he can get an enough of an opportunity in the majors to get a even a 2-3 year contract worth $4mill. That's what he's shooting for (or more).
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Dec 1, 2014 12:13:21 GMT -5
If exploiting mlfa market inefficiencies is your strategy for MLB success, then you'll be waiting a long time. Maybe you can acquire a few underrated players, but you're working on the fringes. Most of those will never have a significant impact in the majors. . Blair might be fringe, but any MLB contribution they get out of him will be at major league minimum. Which allows more money budgeted elsewhere.
I do not know if one would call it an inefficiency, but the A's got a near-40man player without having to "spend" a 40man spot. They list Blair on their AAA roster, jumping ahead of their AA catcher who is still on their AA roster. A's have a weakness at catching prospects and gave Blair a faster route to AAA. (A benefit beyond the previously discussed faster route to MLB.)
Of course, my middle name is "Fringe". Those of my mindset are still lamenting the loss of Verdugo, too. The fringe mentality is a gift that only a few have.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 1, 2014 13:52:43 GMT -5
If exploiting mlfa market inefficiencies is your strategy for MLB success, then you'll be waiting a long time. Maybe you can acquire a few underrated players, but you're working on the fringes. Most of those will never have a significant impact in the majors. . Blair might be fringe, but any MLB contribution they get out of him will be at major league minimum. Which allows more money budgeted elsewhere.
I do not know if one would call it an inefficiency, but the A's got a near-40man player without having to "spend" a 40man spot. They list Blair on their AAA roster, jumping ahead of their AA catcher who is still on their AA roster. A's have a weakness at catching prospects and gave Blair a faster route to AAA. (A benefit beyond the previously discussed faster route to MLB.)
Of course, my middle name is "Fringe". Those of my mindset are still lamenting the loss of Verdugo, too. The fringe mentality is a gift that only a few have.
Where a player is listed right now is completely meaningless. And for that matter, where is he listed on their AAA roster? Not on Milb.com. FWIW, the Red Sox will get MLB minimum contributions from Christian Vazquez, Dan Butler, and Blake Swihart this season too whenever they're playing. |
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Dec 2, 2014 2:54:05 GMT -5
Where a player is listed right now [on minor league rosters] is completely meaningless. Actually, it's quite meaningful: it determines eligibility for the minor league phases of the Rule 5 draft. And those players are much easier to keep.
www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?sid=t556&player_id=542942#/career/R/hitting/2014/ALL
There's Carson with Nashville.
Yep, we don't know for sure how long he spends in AA before moving on to Nashville ... but there he is today with the draft approachin'.
We also know that the Sox have 3 MLB minimum catchers ... but Oakland does not.
When he makes the big show, fans will wonder if he is related to Paul Blair. |
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