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Post by elguapo on Nov 24, 2014 10:00:02 GMT -5
the exhilaration that would be felt in Red Sox nation would be equivalent to the Crawford/Gonzalez signings a few years ago. . Yeah, that was my reaction: exhilaration. Red Sox Nation is largely ignorant and irrational and I don't care about their feelings.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 24, 2014 10:02:28 GMT -5
The Crawford signing was abysmal from the get go - there was never a chance he was gonna be worth that much money. Hanley, on the other hand, was signed to a very fair deal. If (and I mean IF) all goes well, he could actually be a little underpaid.
I don't love Sandoval at $20 mil/year, though. It's not a terrible signing by any stretch, especially since it's only 5 years, and he fills a major position of need for the Sox. But there's less upside there than the Hanley contract.
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Post by jrffam05 on Nov 24, 2014 10:05:36 GMT -5
This is on ESPN now.
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Post by taftreign on Nov 24, 2014 10:08:10 GMT -5
To me this gives the signing more credence as ESPN is generally cautious of posting Breaking News unless confirmed by multiple sources.
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Post by Smittyw on Nov 24, 2014 10:15:40 GMT -5
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Post by elguapo on Nov 24, 2014 10:17:59 GMT -5
Fat guys are funny!
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Nov 24, 2014 10:23:05 GMT -5
The Crawford signing was abysmal from the get go - there was never a chance he was gonna be worth that much money. Hanley, on the other hand, was signed to a very fair deal. If (and I mean IF) all goes well, he could actually be a little underpaid. I don't love Sandoval at $20 mil/year, though. It's not a terrible signing by any stretch, especially since it's only 5 years, and he fills a major position of need for the Sox. But there's less upside there than the Hanley contract. HATED the Crawford signing, and it still makes me mad even though he's been gone. Understand skepticism to Hanley/Sandoval, but definitely not the same level of dread. We have depth to cover a Hanley injury, and both have positional versatility in the future (and we have clear path for 1b/DH by the middle/end of their contracts) that make them much lower risks.
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Post by okin15 on Nov 24, 2014 10:46:20 GMT -5
Wasn't there a quote in Moneyball, "you don't collect players, you collect wins." The Sox are doing the former. I'm not that happy about it because I think we're going to sell someone for pennies on the dollar. I hope they make me eat those words by getting a starting P for Cespedes somehow.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 24, 2014 10:51:33 GMT -5
Lot of places reporting that they spoke to his agent and that he's going to decide by the end of the day. So not sure who to believe.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 24, 2014 11:06:28 GMT -5
This deal is one that'll make me nervous for the next 5 years. It isn't necessary and his upside is pretty limited. Thank god it's "only" 5 years and not 7. Gotta hope he finds a way to become a 125 wRC+ guy though, or that we can at least salary dump him if Devers/Chavis emerge.
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Post by soxfanatic on Nov 24, 2014 11:29:18 GMT -5
@scottlauber: Source: At this point, all that remains in Sandoval-to-#RedSox discussion is informing Giants, Padres.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Nov 24, 2014 11:32:09 GMT -5
The way to confirm a deal is truly done is probably with the league office, which it would appear might be the source of some of these leaks to blogger types as the stanton deal and these deals involved different agents, teams and players. One would think ESPN would be in contact with either Cherington, Vasquez or the league office to confirm this. I still can't believe it but ESPN would not confirm this without checking it out solidly especially in these circumstances.
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Post by soxcentral on Nov 24, 2014 11:49:01 GMT -5
This deal is one that'll make me nervous for the next 5 years. It isn't necessary and his upside is pretty limited. Thank god it's "only" 5 years and not 7. Gotta hope he finds a way to become a 125 wRC+ guy though, or that we can at least salary dump him if Devers/Chavis emerge. I'm not so sure it isn't necessary. We were the 7th worst team in baseball last year and we had Lester/Lackey pitching well for most of the year. Not to mention Ortiz is not going to be around forever. This offense was one Papi injury away from being historically incompetent.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 24, 2014 12:13:47 GMT -5
This deal is one that'll make me nervous for the next 5 years. It isn't necessary and his upside is pretty limited. Thank god it's "only" 5 years and not 7. Gotta hope he finds a way to become a 125 wRC+ guy though, or that we can at least salary dump him if Devers/Chavis emerge. I'm not so sure it isn't necessary. We were the 7th worst team in baseball last year and we had Lester/Lackey pitching well for most of the year. Not to mention Ortiz is not going to be around forever. This offense was one Papi injury away from being historically incompetent. This is getting insane. Why can't people accept that Sandoval is merely a slightly above average offensive player? Replacing Papi? You better try trading him for an Edwin Encarnacion then, because Sandoval will never be the middle of the order bat people are pretending he is. We may have the games two most overrated hitters for the time being (Cespedes and Sandoval).
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danr
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Post by danr on Nov 24, 2014 12:16:10 GMT -5
Unless Devers significantly improves his D, he won't be a major league 3B. He may be a 1B, or an OF. We need to see more of Chavis before a fair assessment can be done of him. Cecchini probably plays elsewhere.
Sandoval and Ramirez don't really block anyone for the time being, and eventually one of them is likely to replace Ortiz.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Nov 24, 2014 12:20:18 GMT -5
This is getting insane. Why can't people accept that Sandoval is merely a slightly above average offensive player? Replacing Papi? You better try trading him for an Edwin Encarnacion then, because Sandoval will never be the middle of the order bat people are pretending he is. We may have the games two most overrated hitters for the time being (Cespedes and Sandoval). I don't think he was saying Sandoval was a direct replacement for Ortiz, he just said our best hitter last year isn't going to be around forever so we need to upgrade pieces offensively. I think a valid concern is Sandoval's struggles against left handed pitching but he is a little better than slightly above average offensively against right handed pitching and given the Red Sox flexibility they may be able to sit Sandoval against tougher lefties.
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Post by taftreign on Nov 24, 2014 12:21:41 GMT -5
Unless Devers significantly improves his D, he won't be a major league 3B. He may be a 1B, or an OF. We need to see more of Chavis before a fair assessment can be done of him. Cecchini probably plays elsewhere. Sandoval and Ramirez don't really block anyone for the time being, and eventually one of them is likely to replace Ortiz. I wouldn't be certain the plan is to replace Ortiz with a full time DH. With a roster construction based on having depth everywhere it only makes sense to eventually use the DH as a revolving day off from the field. Plus we could easily see an outcome where the team picks up Ortiz's option in 16 and 17 in which case this is not a decision for the immediate future.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 24, 2014 12:29:01 GMT -5
Bringing Devers and Chavis into this is insane, guys. Both are at least 3-4 years away, and it's very possible that neither is a third baseman in the end. If either somehow goes all Mookie on us, then well, having Pedroia "blocking" Betts hasn't seemed to be a problem - I'm not sure why this situation would be any different.
We say it over and over: you don't make major league transactions with minor leaguers below, say, Double-A in mind, and that's only the elite Double-A guys.
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Post by rangoon82 on Nov 24, 2014 12:31:45 GMT -5
Wow Panda has only reached 20 bombs twice in his 6 full seasons. Also those are the only two years he's OPSed over .800 as well. I guess we're really not in the late 90's/early 00's anymore, big contract bats aren't what they used to be.
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Post by soxcentral on Nov 24, 2014 12:35:14 GMT -5
We may have the games two most overrated hitters for the time being (Cespedes and Sandoval).
If it makes you feel better, one is likely to be gone by New Years.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 24, 2014 12:41:20 GMT -5
I don't get why overpaying for Sandoval was worth it. He hasn't been worth 20M in a long time.
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Post by elguapo on Nov 24, 2014 12:50:14 GMT -5
Sandoval has been worth 20.1 bWAR in 6 years as a full time player. He's only 28, still in his prime. If you divide 20.1 by 6 years, and then multiply by $6M per WAR.... let me do the math ... I used to be able to do this sort of thing in my head ... well, I'm going to guess it comes out to around $20M/year.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 24, 2014 12:53:11 GMT -5
The problem with Sandoval is that it looks like you're not getting excess value at the front of the deal which would lessen the risk at the end. Unless there is some kind of behind the scenes "perfect Fenway swing" study like they figured out with Beltre and Ross which has Sandoval as a 4-5 WAR player for the Red Sox even though he was a 2.5ish WAR player for the last 3 seasons.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 24, 2014 12:53:28 GMT -5
Sandoval has been worth 20.1 bWAR in 6 years as a full time player. He's only 28, still in his prime. If you divide 20.1 by 6 years, and then multiply by $6M per WAR.... let me do the math ... I used to be able to do this sort of thing in my head ... well, I'm going to guess it comes out to around $20M/year. How about the last 3 years because I'm pretty sure he's not the same guy as we was in '11 or '09.
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Post by elguapo on Nov 24, 2014 13:05:34 GMT -5
Sandoval has been worth 20.1 bWAR in 6 years as a full time player. He's only 28, still in his prime. If you divide 20.1 by 6 years, and then multiply by $6M per WAR.... let me do the math ... I used to be able to do this sort of thing in my head ... well, I'm going to guess it comes out to around $20M/year. How about the last 3 years because I'm pretty sure he's not the same guy as we was in '11 or '09. Guess the last year Sandoval was worth 3.3 bWAR ($20M/6). Or if you don't like guessing, look it up: www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sandopa01.shtml
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