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nomar
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Posts: 10,918
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Post by nomar on Oct 25, 2012 17:59:00 GMT -5
This probably sounds crazy, but please give this some thought.
Pedroia is a great player. Some think he's a leader, some think he's a poor one, but there's no doubt he is one of the leagues best.
That being said, Pedroia is a free agent in 2015. The team is only getting younger it seems, and instead of giving him a huge deal when he hits free agency, it may be wise to deal him now. The way Pedroia plays combined with his body type will most likely lead to significant injuries when he gets older. He also has a swing that uses his whole body, which I for one am skeptical of him being able to do forever. But in his prime (relatively) and with multiple years of control left, he is worth a ton.
One great fit for Pedroia could be Cleveland. Cleveland has a lot of work to do if they won't to contend and make people come to their games. Signing Terry Francona was a great start, but their franchise needs someone like Pedroia to build around. Kipnis is a solid player, but he isnt a future MVP. I think that if we got a package like:
Kipnis + Lindor + Pestano for Pedroia
It could be a homerun for us. We would get a starting 2B, a potential all star SS, and a good setup man in Pestano.
Just some food for thought. Would you guys consider trading Pedroia for the right price now?
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Post by psusox14 on Oct 25, 2012 18:33:26 GMT -5
That is definitely tempting/intriguing. However, I think pedroia is one of the few people left in the game who ball out all the time. As you mentioned, we are turning into a rather young team. So I think we need a positive veteran presence to show the rooks how the game is played. That combined with the fact that pedroia is my favorite player lead me to prefer keeping him.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,918
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Post by nomar on Oct 25, 2012 18:40:04 GMT -5
Thats another thing. He is overall loved here, tough to send a guy who means that much to the fanbase off.
I dont know how positive of a presence Pedroia is, but you're right that after he and Ellsbury are gone there wont be much veteran presence left. Ortiz will be gone after 2014 and by that time we may be the youngest team in baseball.
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 25, 2012 20:01:35 GMT -5
Forget the love and sentimentality for Pedroia. He is the best second baseman this team has, perhaps ever, had. I never saw Bobby Doerr play, but this kid does it all. I am constantly astonished by the plays he makes. He is a ROY and MVP and still young.
Dustin Pedroia is the type of player an organization builds its team around. And I have not gone into his fiery demeanor and passion for the game.
A guy like him comes around only once in a generation.
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Post by mainesox on Oct 25, 2012 20:41:49 GMT -5
From a pure baseball perspective I think that deal makes sense for Boston, but considering how much people love Pedroia and the backlash they would see from trading him, plus whatever (small amount of) loyalty the team has for its players, and I don't think they'd ever do it. I think any potential deal to move a player like Pedroia would have to look like a slam dunk win for the Red Sox to actually pull the trigger.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,918
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Post by nomar on Oct 25, 2012 22:35:00 GMT -5
From a pure baseball perspective I think that deal makes sense for Boston, but considering how much people love Pedroia and the backlash they would see from trading him, plus whatever (small amount of) loyalty the team has for its players, and I don't think they'd ever do it. I think any potential deal to move a player like Pedroia would have to look like a slam dunk win for the Red Sox to actually pull the trigger. Completely agree. Personally, i dont think BC has the balls to do something like this to begin with.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 27, 2012 9:02:18 GMT -5
What makes you think Cleveland would make that deal?
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,918
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Post by nomar on Oct 28, 2012 1:13:20 GMT -5
What makes you think Cleveland would make that deal? Pure speculation. But Francona would like Pedroia, and hes someone they can build around relatively. Kipnis is a solid player, but not a perrenial all star. Lindor isn't a sure thing. I don't think Pedroia will be traded. People love him here and BC would really put himself on the line if he decided to deal him. I think if it's not a slam dunk there's no chance of anything happening.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Oct 28, 2012 13:41:53 GMT -5
The Indians are coming of a 68 win season (their pythag was 64 wins and was their fourth consecutive losing season) their rotation is a disaster, and they do not have a third basemen, first basemen, or left fielder. They will not be trading an above average player who is cost controlled for 5 seasons and one of the top prospects in baseball for a guy who will be a FA well before they are ever competitive again.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,918
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Post by nomar on Oct 28, 2012 13:57:54 GMT -5
The Indians are coming of a 68 win season (their pythag was 64 wins and was their fourth consecutive losing season) their rotation is a disaster, and they do not have a third basemen, first basemen, or left fielder. They will not be trading an above average player who is cost controlled for 5 seasons and one of the top prospects in baseball for a guy who will be a FA well before they are ever competitive again. I usually think the same way you are, but I used Cleveland in my scenario because i think Francona would love to go out and get Pedroia. Lindor is a great spec, but Cleveland has a lot of SS depth in the minors, and Pedroia would be replacing Kipnis anyway.
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Post by bigpapismangosalsa on Oct 28, 2012 14:33:09 GMT -5
While I don't think the particular Cleveland trade makes sense for a lot of the reasons mentioned previously, the idea of trading Pedroia in and of itself always comes down to what the return would be (as it truly does with any trade) - nobody is truly unavailable - it is just understanding the price.
That said, I think Pedroia is the type of player the Red Sox should still continue to build around, and shouldn't be traded unless you are talking an unreasonably attractive package coming back.
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Post by jrffam05 on Oct 30, 2012 14:15:07 GMT -5
I am not opposed of the deal from a baseball stand point, but don't think it will happen. It would feel like a slap in the face to Red Sox fans and also set a bad precedent. Franchise players like Pedroia, Jeter, King Felix, are what keep the fan base excited. Pedroia is the also the only Sox's player who could be named captain in the foreseeable future.
I do like to wonder though, what our 2014-2015 roster would look like if the Red Sox traded Pedroia, Els, Lester, Ross, and anyone else they could get value for at the trade deadline this year.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 1, 2012 7:56:50 GMT -5
I am not opposed of the deal from a baseball stand point, but don't think it will happen. It would feel like a slap in the face to Red Sox fans and also set a bad precedent. Franchise players like Pedroia, Jeter, King Felix, are what keep the fan base excited. Pedroia is the also the only Sox's player who could be named captain in the foreseeable future. I do like to wonder though, what our 2014-2015 roster would look like if the Red Sox traded Pedroia, Els, Lester, Ross, and anyone else they could get value for at the trade deadline this year. Which is why you should try to flip Pedroia for the next player that fans are going to get excited about. Mark Teixeira was once in that class of player, but I don't hear many Rangers fans bemoaning that trade. Pedroia represents a chance to acquire a franchise-altering package of young talent. How often does that chance come along? Is it worth passing on that just so that the Red Sox can sort of pretend to be contenders the next couple years?
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Post by jmei on Nov 1, 2012 16:17:06 GMT -5
You forget that prospect hauls are always inherently risky. How's that Cliff Lee package working for the Phillies (or the Indians, or the Mariners, for that matter)? Almost no deal works out as well as the Teixeira one did for Texas. Compound that with the fact that a Pedroia trade signals a full rebuild (read: at least 3 years before true contention), which will be received very negatively by the media and fans alike, and I find a Pedroia trade both very unlikely and probably a bad idea.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 1, 2012 19:55:27 GMT -5
You forget that prospect hauls are always inherently risky. How's that Cliff Lee package working for the Phillies (or the Indians, or the Mariners, for that matter)? Almost no deal works out as well as the Teixeira one did for Texas. Compound that with the fact that a Pedroia trade signals a full rebuild (read: at least 3 years before true contention), which will be received very negatively by the media and fans alike, and I find a Pedroia trade both very unlikely and probably a bad idea. I've noticed this a lot even in other sports. A team trades a marquee player for a "treasure trove" of prospects, and, years later, the premier player is still king of the hill. There are exceptions of course, witness the Bedard trade from the O's to Seattle; or the Slocumb trade for two minor leaguers. With Pedroia, you know you have a perennial all-star still in his prime, and can build your team from there.
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Post by elguapo on Nov 2, 2012 10:19:54 GMT -5
Players like Pedroia and Wright should play their entire career with one team. Ride that horse off into the sunset. Then shoot him and mount a new one.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 2, 2012 14:45:38 GMT -5
You forget that prospect hauls are always inherently risky. How's that Cliff Lee package working for the Phillies (or the Indians, or the Mariners, for that matter)? Almost no deal works out as well as the Teixeira one did for Texas. Compound that with the fact that a Pedroia trade signals a full rebuild (read: at least 3 years before true contention), which will be received very negatively by the media and fans alike, and I find a Pedroia trade both very unlikely and probably a bad idea. Oh, I don't know... the Padres got an awfully good package for Adrian Gonzalez. Also, Billy Beane's entire career.
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Post by jmei on Nov 2, 2012 15:18:18 GMT -5
We can cherry-pick examples all day. For instance, the Mulder and Haren trades were great for Beane, but the Hudson and Holliday trades were very underwhelming. What matters is that even universally well-regarded prospects turn into busts fairly often and that any prospect package will be riskier than the prospect of Pedroia continuing his elite performance going forward. Yes, the prospect package might have greater upside, but a team with Boston's payroll shouldn't have to gamble on high-risk high-reward strategies. They should instead focus on developing and then locking up young talent (a la Pedroia, Lester, Buchholz, etc.) while using that payroll space to make smart free agent signings to fill around the edges. Teams with a systemic advantage like Boston's ability to spend should not focus on risk-filled roll-the-dice-type strategies, but just make smart, steady decisions and the wins should come.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 4, 2012 8:55:52 GMT -5
We can cherry-pick examples all day. For instance, the Mulder and Haren trades were great for Beane, but the Hudson and Holliday trades were very underwhelming. What matters is that even universally well-regarded prospects turn into busts fairly often and that any prospect package will be riskier than the prospect of Pedroia continuing his elite performance going forward. Yes, the prospect package might have greater upside, but a team with Boston's payroll shouldn't have to gamble on high-risk high-reward strategies. They should instead focus on developing and then locking up young talent (a la Pedroia, Lester, Buchholz, etc.) while using that payroll space to make smart free agent signings to fill around the edges. Teams with a systemic advantage like Boston's ability to spend should not focus on risk-filled roll-the-dice-type strategies, but just make smart, steady decisions and the wins should come. That's exactly the point. Trading Pedroia gives you a chance to develop the next round of young talent. Whereas extending Pedroia at this point is probably NOT a smart free agent signing.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 4, 2012 11:08:34 GMT -5
We can cherry-pick examples all day. For instance, the Mulder and Haren trades were great for Beane, but the Hudson and Holliday trades were very underwhelming. What matters is that even universally well-regarded prospects turn into busts fairly often and that any prospect package will be riskier than the prospect of Pedroia continuing his elite performance going forward. Yes, the prospect package might have greater upside, but a team with Boston's payroll shouldn't have to gamble on high-risk high-reward strategies. They should instead focus on developing and then locking up young talent (a la Pedroia, Lester, Buchholz, etc.) while using that payroll space to make smart free agent signings to fill around the edges. Teams with a systemic advantage like Boston's ability to spend should not focus on risk-filled roll-the-dice-type strategies, but just make smart, steady decisions and the wins should come. That's exactly the point. Trading Pedroia gives you a chance to develop the next round of young talent. Whereas extending Pedroia at this point is probably NOT a smart free agent signing. I know what you meant, but for clarity, Pedroia is not a free agent until 2014, and the Sox have an option on him for 2015.
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Post by jmei on Nov 4, 2012 11:14:36 GMT -5
I expect the team to be in contention in 2014 and 2015. If you do not, it might make sense to trade Pedroia, but I think it's crazy for a big-market team to basically punt the next three years, especially once they re-signed Ortiz.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 4, 2012 11:30:31 GMT -5
Agree. Its important to create stability on a rebuilding team. Papi and Pedey provide a certain comfort level as prospects like Iglesias, Webster, Brentz, Xander et al force themselves onto the roster.
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Post by larrycook on Nov 4, 2012 14:08:44 GMT -5
Agree. Its important to create stability on a rebuilding team. This is an important point since players can't look to the coaching staff as a souce of stability. Players like Lester, Pedrioa and Ortiz have to step up and fill that role until the coaching staff gets some years under their belts.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Nov 4, 2012 15:08:36 GMT -5
I'd be down to trade Pedroia, Lester, Buchholz, Middlebrooks, Bogaerts, *insert Red Sox player here* for some insane return package of elite near MLB ready talent. But, in Pedroia's case, that probably isn't going to happen.
Now, that's not to say Pedroia doesn't still have tremendous trade value, but let's be practical here. Pedroia is coming off an injury plagued year where he had his worst offensive performance, and he has the stink of the 2012 Red Sox on him, it's not like his value is at an all time high. He's a near 30 year old second baseman with a little body, his skills are generally undervalued, and the same reasons why people here are skeptical of Pedroia's long term value are probably shared across the industry.
The Red Sox would have to clearly "win" the trade to even think about dealing Pedroia at this point. There are many reasons why this is unlikely. The main reason is he's under team control through 2015 on a team friendly number. If he's dealt, he can void the option, so the acquiring team only has him under control for two seasons. That's not a recipe for a stupid return, I'm fairly confident no team values Pedroia more than the Red Sox do. Look, I'm skeptical of Pedroia 3-5 years from now, but is he really going to break the bank as a 32 year old 2B after 2015? He might, but in order to do so he'd need to be elite for the next three seasons. It's ignorant to write off the 2014 and 2015 Red Sox, and he could very well be the best player on those teams. We could make a thread for any player and discuss a plan for an insanely good return, but it's as pointless as coming up with trade proposals for Felix Hernandez.
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Post by patrmac04 on Nov 4, 2012 16:46:39 GMT -5
This is the same team that traded Nomar... but that was for a plethora of different reasons. So yes I could see the team exploring options and you have a good idea... but I simply don't see it happening until at least next season if they were to entertain offers.
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