TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Dec 10, 2014 22:09:43 GMT -5
It sounds like it's RDLR, Webster and a minor leaguer. Geeeesh.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 10, 2014 22:10:13 GMT -5
I really like Rubby. Someone talk me off the ledge. Agreed. I feel like Rubby still has #3 upside or late-inning, possible closer potential. Miley has not chance of being better than a 5 in the AL. On the surface, this is gross. But I guess there must be something to Miley if they like him that much. Disagree on Miley being a 5, nothing he has done has shown he should grade out that low.
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Post by amfox1 on Dec 10, 2014 22:10:50 GMT -5
In the trade thread, I had speculated that it would be one of the AAA/AAAA pitchers and a position player prospect. Depending on the third prospect, I don't think this is too far off. I think they're buying low on Miley and/or selling low on Webster and RDLR. They need a guy who can give them 30 starts in 2015, and neither Webster nor RDLR were going to do that next year.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 10, 2014 22:11:32 GMT -5
I really like Rubby. Someone talk me off the ledge. With Rubby's frame and injury history it is unclear if he would be a big league starter capable of giving you even 175 innings. Now we get a proven commodity who pitches well away from Arizona, logs major innings, and is under team control until 2018. Yeah this is the best way to look at it probably. Still we gave up a lot of control and depth. Wish one of them was Ranaudo
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Dec 10, 2014 22:11:52 GMT -5
RS also sending a minor leaguer to 'zona. This truly sucks. I can see Rubby doing really well in the NL West.
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Post by ramireja on Dec 10, 2014 22:12:19 GMT -5
This trade also eliminates my top 2 options for the 5th spot in the rotation. If we assume that we're adding 1 more SP (but who knows, maybe we still add 2 more), then that leaves Workman, Wright, Ranaudo and maybe Barnes battling for the 5th spot with Owens, Johnson, and Rodriguez not far behind.
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Post by soxfan06 on Dec 10, 2014 22:13:07 GMT -5
disappointing for sure. Lets hope that the last "minor leaguer" is someone completely irrelevant. I remember how excited I was when Webster and De La Rosa entered the system. Granted they haven't panned out as I had envisioned but I wasn't ready to give up on them and feel that they're being sold while their value is collectively low. I too was very excited about our return from the LAD, but like you said they haven't panned out as expected. And it's pretty much a given we were going to trade some of our minor league arms for pitching help. So, what is there to freak out about? Webster is below pretty much all our top 20 pitching prospects for me at this point and I'd group Rubby in with Barnes, Ranaudo, Escobar and even Ball. Would I have preferred to give up say Ranaudo over Rubby? Yes. But that's not how trades work, when acquiring someone who is a shoe in to eat innings while pitching at an above average rate, it was going to cost something. I guess I just don't understand the freaking out. I knew it would take something of some significance to get Miley. I'm absolutely willing to give up Rubby for him.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 10, 2014 22:13:21 GMT -5
Well lets see who the minor leaguer is before we say this "truly sucks" because as of right now it looks like we gave up a couple of bullpen arms for a more-than-serviceable starting pitcher.
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Post by jrffam05 on Dec 10, 2014 22:13:32 GMT -5
Who's Pedro going to mentor now?
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Post by mgoetze on Dec 10, 2014 22:14:41 GMT -5
Dave Cameron quick reaction:
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Post by soxfan06 on Dec 10, 2014 22:15:07 GMT -5
I forgot we tend to over react as a fanbase. I liked Rubby, but he we certainly not untouchable in my book.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Dec 10, 2014 22:15:23 GMT -5
Who's Pedro going to mentor now? Anderson Espinoza and Chris Acosta.
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Post by soxfan06 on Dec 10, 2014 22:16:03 GMT -5
Dave Cameron quick reaction: Another good note, Rubby is a FA in 2019 while Miley is only a FA in 2018.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Dec 10, 2014 22:16:34 GMT -5
Well lets see who the minor leaguer is before we say this "truly sucks" because as of right now it looks like we gave up a couple of bullpen arms for a more-than-serviceable starting pitcher. Not too serviceable in 2014. ERA-plus of 86, WHIP of 1.401. It's a pretty good bet that Rubby can do better than that in 2015 and we're giving up two other bodies as well.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Dec 10, 2014 22:16:41 GMT -5
If Ranaudo/Workman were instead of RDLR I would be in love with this trade. We definitely needed to turn some quantity into quality. I'm worried that RDLR can provide more worth than Miley. In any event, I'm thankful that we have a better starter for our rotation, and we still have Cespedes and our top prospects so we're still in the running for at least one more quality starter. Not that I'd suggest we use our top prospects to get it.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 10, 2014 22:16:55 GMT -5
If you think RDLR is a reliever then this is a good trade. Miley's upside is higher than David Robertson or Andrew Miller or whoever else is getting overpaid for 60 innings. So if the Red Sox don't think he can start, I can see it.
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Post by Coreno on Dec 10, 2014 22:17:32 GMT -5
Not at all a fan of this deal as its being reported. Unless there's something else coming back, I don't get it. Don't see Miley as much of an upgrade over Rubby...
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Post by kman22 on Dec 10, 2014 22:18:06 GMT -5
This trade also eliminates my top 2 options for the 5th spot in the rotation. If we assume that we're adding 1 more SP (but who knows, maybe we still add 2 more), then that leaves Workman, Wright, Ranaudo and maybe Barnes battling for the 5th spot with Owens, Johnson, and Rodriguez not far behind. My take is that in just about every way signals 3 new SP. One for the back end of the rotation, someone like Masterson, Miley (or a comparable), and a guy to lead the rotation. It's possible that they add an additional pitcher, beyond that, if they trade Miley, Buchholz, or Kelly.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Dec 10, 2014 22:18:14 GMT -5
I think this was a fair deal for both teams.
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Post by mattpicard on Dec 10, 2014 22:19:10 GMT -5
Don't get why people hate this so much. Miley has proven to be a reliable, left-handed, mid-to-back of the rotation starter. He is only 2 years older than Rubby and has one less year of team control left, and is going to be making under $5 million next season. I was always big on Webster, but who really expects him to turn around his control woes enough to be a capable starter at this point? And while Rubby is intriguing as well, it's less than likely (to me) that he actually becomes more effective than Miley next year, or ever.
Yes, we gave up two talented guys who were vying for the fifth slot of the rotation. But we've directly replaced their fringy potential (or to give more credit to Rubby, his fringy potential to be more than a #4/5 type) with a consistent, proven option in that spot. Miley's a guy you can count on, rather than having to leave the spot to multiple options that you can experiment with. And his acquisition shouldn't have much of an impact on the search for two front-of-the-rotation starters.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Dec 10, 2014 22:19:28 GMT -5
This from Fangraphs: April 10, 2013 "Wade Miley is one of those pitchers who just gets outs. The Arizona Diamondbacks lefthander doesn’t wow or dazzle, but that isn’t what matters. What does is results, and he got plenty of those last year in his rookie season. The 26-year-old left-hander won 16 games with a 3.33 ERA and 3.15 FIP. How did he do it? Not with overpowering stuff. His primary pitch — which he threw over 70 percent of the time — was a fastball that averaged 91.1 mph. He struck out just 6.66 batters per nine innings. What he did is pound the strike zone and keep the ball in the yard. His walk rate was a sterling 1.71 and home run rate a Lilliputian 0.65. And now he has a much better defense behind him, and a home park that's tougher to hit a home run in. I also imagine he'd have a better offense around him, although he will have to face the DH.
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Post by xanderbogaerts2 on Dec 10, 2014 22:20:05 GMT -5
I like this move. It looks like still going after three more starters but this didn't help the outfield situation
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nomar
Veteran
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Post by nomar on Dec 10, 2014 22:20:28 GMT -5
I will say this: RDLR and Webstwr are more highly looked upon in these forums that probably anywhere else.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 10, 2014 22:20:29 GMT -5
I really like De la Rosa. Is Miley an upgrade to him though? Yes.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Dec 10, 2014 22:20:33 GMT -5
Maybe there is a sweetener in there. Let's see.
Maybe they flip Miley now for in a package for Cueto or something. Not ready to pass my verdict on this yet.
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