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Post by jrffam05 on Dec 10, 2014 22:21:15 GMT -5
I think at worse DLR is at worse a 5th starter, who also has a lot of potential. I thought he would of been very valuable if packaged with Cespedes for a starting pitcher. I think this is an undersell. I hope I'm wrong but I don't like this trade.
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Dec 10, 2014 22:22:06 GMT -5
Cameron is quoted a few posts up as saying Miley figures to make $4.3 million in arb. So, he's much more expensive than Rubby too.
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Post by mannofsteele on Dec 10, 2014 22:22:10 GMT -5
Its a passable deal. The prospect/minor leaguer involved shouldn't be much higher than a flyer guy. We'll see, but I like it from the aspect that Webster hasn't done anything to improve in the last year plus. De La Rosa is a guy that I like, as do most, but I won't be screaming about it unless he becomes a 2.
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Post by mgoetze on Dec 10, 2014 22:23:11 GMT -5
RDLR has shown the potential to have 5 game stints of great pitching. Miley has shown the potential to have an entire season of great pitching. He had 3.5 bWAR / 4.4 fWAR in 2012.
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Post by kman22 on Dec 10, 2014 22:23:19 GMT -5
so it looks like still going after three more starters not to mention this didn't help the outfield situation Seems like good news. They still have a combination of Cespedes, Craig, Nava, and Holt as trade bait.
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Post by azblue on Dec 10, 2014 22:23:33 GMT -5
Getting an inexpensive, innings eating lefty starter is not a bad thing.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 10, 2014 22:23:41 GMT -5
Well lets see who the minor leaguer is before we say this "truly sucks" because as of right now it looks like we gave up a couple of bullpen arms for a more-than-serviceable starting pitcher. Not too serviceable in 2014. ERA-plus of 86, WHIP of 1.401. It's a pretty good bet that Rubby can do better than that in 2015 and we're giving up two other bodies as well. FIP suggests he was a tad unlucky and his home park was the 2nd most hitter friendly in the league.
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Post by jmei on Dec 10, 2014 22:24:04 GMT -5
I don't like this trade, but I'm really, really high on De La Rosa. His stuff is pretty great, and I think the command and strikeouts will come with time. They sold low on Webster, but there's a good chance his stock was never going to increase much, so I'm less upset about that.
They traded upside for certainty, which they might have had to do considering their emphasis on contending in 2015 and with the guys behind RDLR/Webster pushing them for reps and possessing similar talent/upside. But there's a pretty good chance that they lose the trade as soon as 2015, and they gave up a lot of team control.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 10, 2014 22:27:51 GMT -5
One year park effects are bunk. Fenway is still a tough place for a lefty. Less bad than Arizona? Yeah, probably. But still bad.
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Post by jhenrywaugh, prop. on Dec 10, 2014 22:28:08 GMT -5
Maybe there is a sweetener in there. Let's see. Maybe they flip Miley now for in a package for Cueto or something. Not ready to pass my verdict on this yet. Now that's an interesting notion. Or maybe it frees up Kelly to be dealt. My issue with this trade is the return. I really don't see how a 27-year-old with pedestrian stuff and a 1.4 WHIP in the NL is somehow mid-rotation in the AL East. But I guess I should trust the scouts, they must see something better in him.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 10, 2014 22:29:12 GMT -5
Cameron is quoted a few posts up as saying Miley figures to make $4.3 million in arb. So, he's much more expensive than Rubby too. When was the last time Rubby went 200 effective innings? Miley has FIP'd a 3.98 each of the last two years, logging at least 200 innings in both seasons. Rubby FIP'd a 4.30 in 100 innings last year and doesn't have a reliable track record health-wise. There are also questions about whether he will ever develop a consistent 3rd pitch and whether his frame would work (I think his frame is fine personally since he is so filled out).
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Post by jmei on Dec 10, 2014 22:29:29 GMT -5
There's a near 100% chance that they add two other starting pitchers, by the way, and a back end of Buchholz, Miley, and Kelly (and yes, in that order) is pretty solid.
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Post by jhenrywaugh, prop. on Dec 10, 2014 22:30:26 GMT -5
"Bob Nightengale ?@bnightengale 4m4 minutes ago
#Dbacks GM Dave Stewart denies they have a deal with #RedSox, getting Webster and DelaRosa for Wade Miley_unable to yet agree on prospects."
Made it's actually one or the other of Rubby/Webster.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 10, 2014 22:30:43 GMT -5
There's a near 100% chance that they add two other starting pitchers, by the way, and a back end of Buchholz, Miley, and Kelly (and yes, in that order) is pretty solid. Love that backend of the rotation.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Dec 10, 2014 22:33:00 GMT -5
@sean_McAdam: Told that hold-up to Miley-to-Red Sox deal is Dbacks choosing from a list of prospects to be included with Webster and De La Rosa.
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Post by jmei on Dec 10, 2014 22:34:22 GMT -5
My issue with this trade is the return. I really don't see how a 27-year-old with pedestrian stuff and a 1.4 WHIP in the NL is somehow mid-rotation in the AL East. But I guess I should trust the scouts, they must see something better in him. You should not judge Miley (or any other player) solely by his 2014. He put up a four-win season in 2012, and is projected to be an above-average starter next year.
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Post by mgoetze on Dec 10, 2014 22:34:32 GMT -5
There's a near 100% chance that they add two other starting pitchers, by the way, and a back end of Buchholz, Miley, and Kelly (and yes, in that order) is pretty solid. I'd also claim there is at least a 20% chance that one of those 3 will get flipped for a better pitcher (e.g. Tigers reportedly want a major league pitcher in return if they trade Porcello). And if I got to choose whether to trade Miley or Kelly away, it would be Kelly by a landslide.
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Dec 10, 2014 22:35:34 GMT -5
Cameron is quoted a few posts up as saying Miley figures to make $4.3 million in arb. So, he's much more expensive than Rubby too. When was the last time Rubby went 200 effective innings? Miley has FIP'd a 3.98 each of the last two years, logging at least 200 innings in both seasons. Rubby FIP'd a 4.30 in 100 innings last year and doesn't have a reliable track record health-wise. There are also questions about whether he will ever develop a consistent 3rd pitch and whether his frame would work (I think his frame is fine personally since he is so filled out). Rubby has never pitched 200 innings or anything close to it because the RS went slow with him (as they should have) after acquiring him from the Dodgers post-TJ surgery. Rubby's development has been frustrating. In fact, I posted about that tonight in another thread. But it seems to me he's at least an even bet to outpitch Miley in 2015 and for significantly less money. On top of that, we give up Webster, who could have been a chip in another trade.
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Post by thursty on Dec 10, 2014 22:36:07 GMT -5
Please tell me that one of those "MLB insiders" teenagers has hacked rosenthal and morosi's twitter accounts.
And knowing Ben, the 3rd PTBNL is the equivalent of a Montas (who is what a top 5 White Sox prospect now?)
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Post by soxfan06 on Dec 10, 2014 22:37:23 GMT -5
My issue with this trade is the return. I really don't see how a 27-year-old with pedestrian stuff and a 1.4 WHIP in the NL is somehow mid-rotation in the AL East. But I guess I should trust the scouts, they must see something better in him. You should not judge Miley (or any other player) solely by his 2014. He put up a four-win season in 2012, and is projected to be an above-average starter next year. There also a lot of value in a guy who is going to give up 30 starts and 200 innings even if he doesn't bounce back from his 2014 season.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Dec 10, 2014 22:37:58 GMT -5
I like this strategy. I'd even like to see us go one step further and add Masterson to the back-end.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Dec 10, 2014 22:38:11 GMT -5
@bnightengale: So the #RedSox privately are saying the Miley deal is done. The #Dbacks publicly are saying it's not done. Welcome to the winter meetings.
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Post by stevedillard on Dec 10, 2014 22:38:19 GMT -5
@sean_McAdam: Told that hold-up to Miley-to-Red Sox deal is Dbacks choosing from a list of prospects to be included with Webster and De La Rosa. This smells of at least one 2014 draft pick being on that list. Can't be traded til June, and ptbnl must be made within 6 months, so not possible.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 10, 2014 22:38:53 GMT -5
we now have two open 40 man spots (that is with Miley on the 40 man)
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 10, 2014 22:39:03 GMT -5
Who's Pedro going to mentor now? Anderson Espinoza and Chris Acosta. So we think Pedro only works with Latin players ? Pretty sad logic my friend.......
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