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Post by oleary25 on Dec 10, 2014 22:39:30 GMT -5
I was advocating earlier that the Red Sox should be looking for 200 ip from their starters. Right now if the rumors are true they'll be going after James Shields next. Who I'm not a big fan of because of his numbers at Fenway, but he throws over 200 ip consistently. Throw in another trade from their surplus and that should be the rotation. I'm hoping like everyone else on here that they can land a number 1 caliber starter, but if this deal is any indication the Price will only get steeper. They may want to wait until next year to land a front of the rotation arm.
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Post by bigbatter on Dec 10, 2014 22:39:32 GMT -5
@sean_McAdam: Told that hold-up to Miley-to-Red Sox deal is Dbacks choosing from a list of prospects to be included with Webster and De La Rosa. Are you kidding me? We're giving up more? This is already a bad deal. RDLR for Miley alone is enough and I wouldn't even do that. Way to early to give up on RDLR. I'm puking everywhere right now. Unreal.
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Post by kman22 on Dec 10, 2014 22:40:24 GMT -5
Anderson Espinoza and Chris Acosta. So we think Pedro only works with Latin players ? Pretty sad logic my friend....... Pedro can mentor any Red Sox pitcher he wants.
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Post by curiousle on Dec 10, 2014 22:40:34 GMT -5
the other prospect is probably Swihart!...S--- I don't like this deal, I thought eventually Rubby would close and Webster would start. Would have been much happier if this was Ranaudo and Workman. I agree with Django....so Rizzo for Miley....SWEEEEEETTTTT.....sucks.
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Post by jhenrywaugh, prop. on Dec 10, 2014 22:41:40 GMT -5
My issue with this trade is the return. I really don't see how a 27-year-old with pedestrian stuff and a 1.4 WHIP in the NL is somehow mid-rotation in the AL East. But I guess I should trust the scouts, they must see something better in him. You should not judge Miley (or any other player) solely by his 2014. He put up a four-win season in 2012, and is projected to be an above-average starter next year. Outside of 2012, what numbers project to above average? His stuff doesn't exactly hint to upside.
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Post by bigbatter on Dec 10, 2014 22:43:01 GMT -5
Careful what you wish for guys. We didn't want to pay Lester and now not even a full 24hrs after he signed with the Cubs we're trading away valuable players with potential we have not realized yet. This is what I feared would happen if we missed on Lester. Ugh.
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Post by curiousle on Dec 10, 2014 22:43:07 GMT -5
the ripples of the bungled Lester Negotiations will run deep for a while now....not pretty in my view.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Dec 10, 2014 22:43:21 GMT -5
Anderson Espinoza and Chris Acosta. So we think Pedro only works with Latin players ? Pretty sad logic my friend....... Ummm I don't know how you got that. I mentioned them cause he was involved in the signing process.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Dec 10, 2014 22:44:19 GMT -5
There's a near 100% chance that they add two other starting pitchers, by the way, and a back end of Buchholz, Miley, and Kelly (and yes, in that order) is pretty solid. Love that backend of the rotation. Why do you love it? Clay is coming off a 4.01 FIP, 72 ERA-plus, -1.6 WAR year; Kelly was 4.37 FIP, 91 ERA-plus, .2 WAR; and Miley had a FIP of 3.98, ERA-plus of 86 and WAR of .8. And that doesn't even mention Clay's reliability issues. Not one of these guys was close to average when it came to run suppression in 2014.
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Post by soxfan06 on Dec 10, 2014 22:44:21 GMT -5
I'm shocked we haven't got a Miley isn't Lester so this trade sucks post yet. We seem to be getting everything else here.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 10, 2014 22:47:32 GMT -5
You should not judge Miley (or any other player) solely by his 2014. He put up a four-win season in 2012, and is projected to be an above-average starter next year. Outside of 2012, what numbers project to above average? His stuff doesn't exactly hint to upside. Career 48% GB rate, last 2 seasons over 50%. He's a GB machine.
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Post by mjay24 on Dec 10, 2014 22:47:40 GMT -5
Do the Red Sox do this do if they sign Lester? I don't think so. I think they made a panic move and overpayed. At the worst I think ruby could be a high end late inning reliever. Rdlr reminds me of bettances.
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Post by jmei on Dec 10, 2014 22:48:09 GMT -5
You should not judge Miley (or any other player) solely by his 2014. He put up a four-win season in 2012, and is projected to be an above-average starter next year. Outside of 2012, what numbers project to above average? His stuff doesn't exactly hint to upside. Like I've been saying, you can't just ignore his best season. It happened, and it should inform his projections. His career marks: 3.79 ERA, 3.80 FIP, 3.72 xFIP, 3.90 SIERA. All are above-average, even when adjusted for league and park. He gets an above-average number of ground balls (career 48.6% GB, up to 51.1% and 52% in the last two years) and while he's not a huge strikeout guy, he's always put up a solid K/BB (career 2.55).
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Post by bigbatter on Dec 10, 2014 22:48:34 GMT -5
Is a 3-4-5 consisting of Bucholz, Kelly, Miley even that much better than Bucholz, Kelly, RDLR? We don't even know what RDLR is yet. I hate this deal. Yeah, we got a guy than can "eat" innings and provide mediocre results. Great. Color me disappointed.
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Post by xanderbogaerts2 on Dec 10, 2014 22:49:16 GMT -5
John Tomase @jtomase 39m Don't mind giving up RBDL and Webster, even if Miley is only a No. 3. Got sense Red Sox viewed both prospects as relievers.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2014 22:50:01 GMT -5
the other prospect is probably Swihart!...S--- I don't like this deal, I thought eventually Rubby would close and Webster would start. Would have been much happier if this was Ranaudo and Workman. I agree with Django....so Rizzo for Miley....SWEEEEEETTTTT.....sucks. You nailed it, Swihart is going to be the throw in for Miley!
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Post by bigbatter on Dec 10, 2014 22:50:32 GMT -5
Outside of 2012, what numbers project to above average? His stuff doesn't exactly hint to upside. Like I've been saying, you can't just ignore his best season. It happened, and it should inform his projections. His career marks: 3.79 ERA, 3.80 FIP, 3.72 xFIP, 3.90 SIERA. All are above-average, even when adjusted for league and park. He gets an above-average number of ground balls (career 48.6% GB, up to 51.1% and 52% in the last two years) and while he's not a huge strikeout guy, he's always put up a solid K/BB (career 2.55). I'm assuming Fenway projects to be more pitcher-friendly for Miley as opposed to his old home in Arizona?
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Post by pedroelgrande on Dec 10, 2014 22:50:47 GMT -5
This has nothing to do with Lester. The Red Sox need solid pitching. You guys that have been focusing way too much on "we need an ace" need to look beyond that. The Red Sox need pitching period.
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Post by mgoetze on Dec 10, 2014 22:50:59 GMT -5
Do the Red Sox do this do if they sign Lester? I don't think so. I think they made a panic move and overpayed. At the worst I think ruby could be a high end late inning reliever. Rdlr reminds me of bettances. Guys, this is ridiculous. Miley is not a top of the rotation starter. You don't think that, I don't think that, and the Red Sox front office doesn't think that. These moves are completely orthogonal to one another. The Red Sox are going to pick up another, higher-caliber pitcher to take the place that Lester would have taken.
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Post by bigbatter on Dec 10, 2014 22:52:05 GMT -5
We need pitching period, obviously, but this is a lateral move
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Dec 10, 2014 22:52:24 GMT -5
Careful what you wish for guys. We didn't want to pay Lester and now not even a full 24hrs after he signed with the Cubs we're trading away valuable players with potential we have not realized yet. This is what I feared would happen if we missed on Lester. Ugh. They were valuable, yes, but so is Miley. And so is cap room.
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Post by blizzards39 on Dec 10, 2014 22:52:29 GMT -5
I'm shocked we haven't got a Miley isn't Lester so this trade sucks post yet. We seem to be getting everything else here. Miley's war was actually 1-7 last year and 8.1 over the last 3. His stats show he had some bad luck last season. His k rate is going up. There is no reason to think he won't be a 2-3 win player going forward.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Dec 10, 2014 22:52:50 GMT -5
Outside of 2012, what numbers project to above average? His stuff doesn't exactly hint to upside. Like I've been saying, you can't just ignore his best season. It happened, and it should inform his projections. His career marks: 3.79 ERA, 3.80 FIP, 3.72 xFIP, 3.90 SIERA. All are above-average, even when adjusted for league and park. He gets an above-average number of ground balls (career 48.6% GB, up to 51.1% and 52% in the last two years) and while he's not a huge strikeout guy, he's always put up a solid K/BB (career 2.55). His Steamer projection is for a 3.73 FIP and 2.3 WAR. Not great, not terrible.
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Post by youngbillrussell on Dec 10, 2014 22:53:00 GMT -5
Pretty good trade for the Red Sox when you stop and think about it. Miley is a left handed 4th SP that has been an all star( lol I know) and thrown 200 innings the last 2 years. I liked DeLarRosa but I like the potential of Miley more, Webster really had no spot on the team with his inconstancies.
Still the sox need two front line starters but I'm perfectly fine with a Kelly, Miley, Buchholz as the 3-4-5 in this rotation.
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Post by jmei on Dec 10, 2014 22:53:39 GMT -5
Love that backend of the rotation. Why do you love it? Clay is coming off a 4.01 FIP, 72 ERA-plus, -1.6 WAR year; Kelly was 4.37 FIP, 91 ERA-plus, .2 WAR; and Miley had a FIP of 3.98, ERA-plus of 86 and WAR of .8. And that doesn't even mention Clay's reliability issues. Not one of these guys was close to average when it came to run suppression in 2014. Again, you cannot just judge a player solely by their most recent season. I cannot emphasize this enough. Per Steamer, Buchholz and Miley are both projected to be 2.3 win players, while Kelly is projected to be a 1.5 win player. That is a pretty solid back of the rotation.
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