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Post by jimed14 on Dec 11, 2014 10:53:22 GMT -5
And can we stop talking about trading Buchholz? You don't trade a guy who projects to have somewhere between 0 and 8 bWAR, throw a dart, when you've got many alternatives if you hit the former number. If he were on another team, we'd be clamoring to add him as a buy low, get a super-ace for cheap candidate. Only the frustration of watching him first-hand is driving the urge to dump him. (Same thing for Victorino, BTW.) Unless we're at the point where the difference between making the playoffs and missing the playoffs is between him and a more reliable pitcher who falls somewhere in the middle of ace and 'doesn't belong in the majors'.
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Post by rangoon82 on Dec 11, 2014 10:55:08 GMT -5
Last year teams like Oakland and Detroit thought you needed multiple aces to win in the playoffs. Interesting the Sox approach so far seems to be the opposite - stock piling multiple 3 types. Though I guess the rotation isn't set in stone yet. And mid-season acquisitions could be made as well.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 11, 2014 10:55:19 GMT -5
Are they going to make us play Wheel of Fortune to guess the 3rd guy?
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Post by blizzards39 on Dec 11, 2014 10:57:08 GMT -5
Speier says "the other is a lower-levels pitcher." This is great news, a very good deal overall. Turned a half season of Lester into Porcello and some home runs. I'm guessing this piece is Stankewicz. We also have Oakland comp balance pick
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 11, 2014 10:57:34 GMT -5
Speier says it's not a top 30 prospect.
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Post by dmaineah on Dec 11, 2014 10:58:56 GMT -5
I like this trade. I like it better if he gets extended.
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Post by mjammz on Dec 11, 2014 10:59:22 GMT -5
If Red Sox chose not to spend on Shields/Scherzer, or assume big money in a trade.. then I'd like to see them reallocate that payroll this year on..... Yoan Moncada.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 11, 2014 10:59:47 GMT -5
lower level guy, lhp, not a top 30 prospect.
Does his last name have 5 or more letters?
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Post by stevedillard on Dec 11, 2014 11:00:18 GMT -5
This is great news, a very good deal overall. Turned a half season of Lester into Porcello and some home runs. I'm guessing this piece is Stankewicz. We also have Oakland comp balance pick No, we lost that and our second for Pablo and Hanley.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Dec 11, 2014 11:00:26 GMT -5
If Red Sox chose not to spend on Shields/Scherzer, or assume big money in a trade.. then I'd like to see them reallocate that payroll this year on..... Yoan Moncada. How about Shields AND Masterson?
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Post by blizzards39 on Dec 11, 2014 11:02:41 GMT -5
We also have Oakland comp balance pick No, we lost that and our second for Pablo and Hanley. Are you sure we didn't lose are 2 and 3 and get to keep that??
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 11, 2014 11:04:03 GMT -5
Gabe Speier it is.
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Post by taftreign on Dec 11, 2014 11:05:05 GMT -5
Sign Shields as your 1 and at mid season reaccess the options among soon to be FA top end starters and minor leaguers Owens, Rodriguez, Barnes if you need to add an arm for the stretch run. I can get behind that logic even if I don't love Shields.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Dec 11, 2014 11:05:16 GMT -5
Gabe Speier is the other piece oddly enough reported by Alex Speier.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 11, 2014 11:05:55 GMT -5
Speier says it's not a top 30 prospect. In fact, Speier says it's Speier.
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Post by MLBDreams on Dec 11, 2014 11:07:13 GMT -5
I'm the one didn't like the trade. It was like traded from #1 starter pitcher Jon Lester for Cespendes (lasted 2 1/2 months as RS) then flipped him for #5 starter pitcher Rick Porcello. He's been Detriot #5 pitcher in his entire career there. It's dumb trade. He'll leave after one yr due to Scott Boras as his agent. I hate this.
Do you think we have championship caliber pitching staff in Buchholz, Miley, Kelly, Porcello & TBD? I don't think so. There's reason why Ben gave us 2 last place finish in 3 years.
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Post by blizzards39 on Dec 11, 2014 11:07:43 GMT -5
Another aspect on this trade is that cespedes contact comes with the non tender guarantee. Where as with porcello it is very conceivable that the sox will tender him. So we either get one extra year of porcello at roughly 15.5(pricy but reasonable on a one year deal) or gain a comp pick (probably more valuable than wright plus low level prospect? )
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 11, 2014 11:08:17 GMT -5
Great trade for us. Cespedes + Speier + DFA fodder for two years of Porcello.
Very contact oriented staff right now.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 11, 2014 11:11:51 GMT -5
I'm the one didn't like the trade. It was like traded from #1 starter pitcher Jon Lester for Cespendes (lasted 2 1/2 months as RS) then flipped him for #5 starter pitcher Rick Porcello. He's been Detriot #5 pitcher in his entire career there. It's dumb trade. He'll leave after one yr due to Scott Boras as his agent. I hate this. Do you think we have championship caliber pitching staff in Buchholz, Miley, Kelly, Porcello & TBD? I don't think so. There's reason why Ben gave us 2 last place finish in 3 years. If you're blaming BC for their 2 last place finishes, you also have to blame him for a world series. Also, I don't think Bobby V was his idea
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 11, 2014 11:12:05 GMT -5
Speier says it's not a top 30 prospect. In fact, Speier says it's Speier. I didn't realize that was his cousin. I replied to his earlier tweet "maybe it's your brother Gabe".
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,728
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Post by nomar on Dec 11, 2014 11:12:09 GMT -5
I'm the one didn't like the trade. It was like traded from #1 starter pitcher Jon Lester for Cespendes (lasted 2 1/2 months as RS) then flipped him for #5 starter pitcher Rick Porcello. He's been Detriot #5 pitcher in his entire career there. It's dumb trade. He'll leave after one yr due to Scott Boras as his agent. I hate this. Do you think we have championship caliber pitching staff in Buchholz, Miley, Kelly, Porcello & TBD? I don't think so. There's reason why Ben gave us 2 last place finish in 3 years. Do you ever say anything that isn't completely off-base and overly-pessimistic? If Porcello is a #5 then he's the best one in the game, or its 2010. His bWAR last year was 4 and his fWAR was 3.1. He broke 200 IP. He generates a lot of GBs. He's only going to be 26 next season. And he's going from one of the games worst pitch framing catchers (Avila) to one of the game's best.
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Post by mjammz on Dec 11, 2014 11:13:31 GMT -5
Peter Gammons @pgammo @pgammo Sox source says to expect one more starter.
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Post by The Town Sports Cards on Dec 11, 2014 11:13:34 GMT -5
Great trade for us. Cespedes + Speier + DFA fodder for two years of Porcello. Very contact oriented staff right now. *One year of Porcello, FA after next season
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 11, 2014 11:14:13 GMT -5
By the way we still have the prospect coming from Cubs for Felix.
I feel they are preparing for life without Bucholtz. Or they are not counting on a healthy Bucholtz. Basically how can you build a team with the knowledge of having him pitch 30 plus starts. The way this team thinks. This was not a problem when he was making a few million but he is starting to enter those years when he is making ten plus million. Even though this is a big market team believe me they watch these things.
They might have a feeling they can get more out of Porcello. I like our pitching coaches. I was rooting for Speier but in the grand scheme of things we have better out there. The key is to keep and develope the three kings Owens,Rodriguez,Johnson. These are the guys they are staying in AAA.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Dec 11, 2014 11:14:27 GMT -5
I was ok with the other deal, including RDLR instead of Workman/Ranaudo stung a little, but I am warming up to Miley. That said, I really like this deal.
Ideally, Porcello/Buchholz/Miley/Kelly would be a 2-5. I have to love what our FO has done thus far. We'd have to have one of the best lineups in the league from top to bottom. And now we have some good rotation pieces while clearing out some of our #5 starter and OF logjam.
And we still have the pieces to obtain an ace, whether it's through our better prospects, which I hope not, or including our recently acquired pitchers plus smaller pieces for even better pitchers.
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