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Post by amfox1 on Dec 19, 2014 10:56:13 GMT -5
Jeff Passan ?@jeffpassan 1m1 minute ago Source: Padres nearing a deal that would send Ryan Hanigan to Boston for Will Middlebrooks.
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Post by mattpicard on Dec 19, 2014 10:57:22 GMT -5
Jeff Passan @jeffpassan · 2m 2 minutes ago Source: Padres nearing a deal that would send Ryan Hanigan to Boston for Will Middlebrooks.
Absolutely love this. Hannigan was the guy many of us wanted over AJP last season.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 19, 2014 10:58:44 GMT -5
Yea Middlebrooks is awful and useless on this team and Hannigan fills a need and is excellent in that role. Good swap.
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Post by The Town Sports Cards on Dec 19, 2014 11:01:53 GMT -5
I think it's a terrible move. A young, power RH bat (one of the hottest commodities in baseball) for a backup C. I don't get it. If Middlebrooks didn't have options it makes sense, but send the guy to AAA, hopefully he can put together a healthy season and see what the results are.
He definitely doesn't deserve to be in Boston on Opening Day, but if healthy, he could still be the .260/25 HR middle of the order force we thought he could be.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,754
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Post by mobaz on Dec 19, 2014 11:08:12 GMT -5
Any way to turn back the clock so we can do this trade December 2013 and just avoid the AJP era all together? Please?? Still can't believe how much worse AJP ended up being than even the hatiest haters thought.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Dec 19, 2014 11:08:36 GMT -5
I like the move. Middlebrooks didn't have a spot here and yeah he could go to AAA but when do we reach the point of "He is who he is". To me it certainly has reached that point and this is a very good return and hopefully will alleviate some of the pressure on Vazquez and allow Swihart to develop at his own pace.
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Post by mattpicard on Dec 19, 2014 11:08:39 GMT -5
I think it's a terrible move. A young, power RH bat (one of the hottest commodities in baseball) for a backup C. I don't get it. If Middlebrooks didn't have options it makes sense, but send the guy to AAA, hopefully he can put together a healthy season and see what the results are. He definitely doesn't deserve to be in Boston on Opening Day, but if healthy, he could still be the .260/25 HR middle of the order force we thought he could be. Between the .213/.265/.364/.629 slash line over his last 608 PA's and the complete blockage of any opportunity in Boston, I think it made sense to move WMB this winter. And considering his main struggles are with plate discipline/pitch recognition, him putting on a solid AAA performance isn't going to spike his value a ton until he proves he can carry it over to MLB pitching (which, again, he was never going to get another chance to do in Boston). Hanigan is a near-perfect backup/part-time catcher, possessing some plate discipline great receiving skills. Steamer projects him to post a 2.1 WAR (98 games), and while that may be optimistic, he's a damn good guy to have backing up Vazquez. ADD: Rob Bradford ?@bradfo now7 seconds ago Source confirms @jeffpassan report of Hanigan for Middlebrooks being close. Deal appears contingent on Middlebrooks passing physical
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Post by kmann on Dec 19, 2014 11:11:30 GMT -5
The Sox have three years of control with Hanigan. Does this trade increase the probability of Vazquez or Swihart being traded? I know we needed a back-up C, but if we had acquired a one-year stop gap, I would have thought for sure the job would be Swihart's in 2016. Now I am not so sure.
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 19, 2014 11:13:37 GMT -5
I was kind of hoping Craig was in on the deal too. The Padres were still holding there top pitchers and top prospects. Imagine the Padres go from Headley to WMB at 3b.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 19, 2014 11:14:25 GMT -5
How many catchers have the Padres traded now? (if this goes through)
Hanigan is signed through 2016 so if Swihart is ready, I'm sure he can be traded again.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Dec 19, 2014 11:16:33 GMT -5
Good deal. Hope it goes through.
Middlebrooks had enough opportunities to establish himself and he just didn't do it.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 19, 2014 11:20:30 GMT -5
The Sox have three years of control with Hanigan. Does this trade increase the probability of Vazquez or Swihart being traded? I know we needed a back-up C, but if we had acquired a one-year stop gap, I would have thought for sure the job would be Swihart's in 2016. Now I am not so sure. He's making peanuts and probably has zero effect on it. They can trade him again.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 19, 2014 11:22:24 GMT -5
Putting Middlebrooks in Pawtucket also means that Cecchini likely has to move to the outfield. So while you're retaining whatever upside Middlebrooks has remaining, you also have to weigh that against potentially harming the development/future value of another prospect.
There's only so many roster spots, and teams with talent gluts do end up losing a few guys. I think that Middlebrooks is clearly the right guy to cut bait on at this time.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Dec 19, 2014 11:22:53 GMT -5
Looks like Cecchini gets to brush the dust off of his 3b mitt now at Pawtucket once again and Boston gets a decent backup catcher in return.
I really hope his CS numbers from 2014 are not something indicative of a future problem of his.
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Post by mannofsteele on Dec 19, 2014 11:29:02 GMT -5
Love Hanigan as Ross' replacement and wish him the best of luck. It really seems like their going for defense from the catching position first and foremost, which is completely fine. Very solid and underrated move.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 19, 2014 11:29:10 GMT -5
Hanigan walks a lot and had a BABIP of .240 last year, which made it two straight awful years. Hopefully that's bad luck for 2 years and not getting destroyed by shifts. Bounceback to a respectable bat? He's also not the black hole that Ross is vs. RHP.
He also had a huge jump in FB% last year to 40.4, which hopefully isn't just a blip.
Of course he's just a backup catcher so it's not a huge deal.
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Post by rafael on Dec 19, 2014 11:29:27 GMT -5
Putting Middlebrooks in Pawtucket also means that Cecchini likely has to move to the outfield. So while you're retaining whatever upside Middlebrooks has remaining, you also have to weigh that against potentially harming the development/future value of another prospect. There's only so many roster spots, and teams with talent gluts do end up losing a few guys. I think that Middlebrooks is clearly the right guy to cut bait on at this time. They could play WMB at DH/1B/LF in AAA, his problems don't come from his defense, he just needs adjustments with his bat. I love this trade, but I'm not so sure WMB was blocking Cecchini.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 19, 2014 11:30:49 GMT -5
Putting Middlebrooks in Pawtucket also means that Cecchini likely has to move to the outfield. So while you're retaining whatever upside Middlebrooks has remaining, you also have to weigh that against potentially harming the development/future value of another prospect. There's only so many roster spots, and teams with talent gluts do end up losing a few guys. I think that Middlebrooks is clearly the right guy to cut bait on at this time. They could play WMB at DH/1B/LF in AAA, his problems don't come from his defense, he just needs adjustments with his bat. I love this trade, but I'm not so sure WMB was blocking Cecchini. That would make his value even lower and put more pressure on his bat. May as well get this over with.
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Post by bsout2 on Dec 19, 2014 11:49:22 GMT -5
Even though the Red Sox have no where to play Middlebrooks, I hate this move. I think Middlebrooks bounces back and this move stings in a year.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 19, 2014 11:50:52 GMT -5
Putting Middlebrooks in Pawtucket also means that Cecchini likely has to move to the outfield. So while you're retaining whatever upside Middlebrooks has remaining, you also have to weigh that against potentially harming the development/future value of another prospect. There's only so many roster spots, and teams with talent gluts do end up losing a few guys. I think that Middlebrooks is clearly the right guy to cut bait on at this time. They could play WMB at DH/1B/LF in AAA, his problems don't come from his defense, he just needs adjustments with his bat. I love this trade, but I'm not so sure WMB was blocking Cecchini. Playing Middlebrooks at somewhere other than third base kills whatever defensive value he had there. I think there's a case that Middlebrooks was baseball's worst player in 2014. I know WAR doesn't back it up, but every player with a lower wOBA in over 300 plate appearances was a catcher or middle infielder. His power is very, very real, but he can't tell a pitch is a curveball until it breaks. He turned 26 in September. If there's any upside left in Middlebrooks, it wasn't going to be found in Boston with Sandoval in town. Good luck to him, though. A part of me thinks he got a tad overrated because he got the #1 prospect in the organization sticker attached to him. He was never a Top-50 prospect from BA or BP, so he'd have been something like 3rd or 4th in the system in better times. He just happened to peak as a prospect right after the Gonzalez deal. I do feel bad for him - there isn't a worse park in the world for Middlebrooks than Petco. Maybe he needed a change of scenery, but he also needs a park that suits his skills. Hanigan is a solid player who fills an obvious need. He's a good backup and would be a capable starter. He fills the veteran backup role the Red Sox tend to prefer (particularly when the starter is young), and he's simply a better player at this point than David Ross. And that's with all due respect to Ross, who had a very nice career.
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Post by mattpicard on Dec 19, 2014 11:54:51 GMT -5
Looks like we can count on the Hanigan trade to go through.
Jon Heyman ?@jonheymancbs now6 seconds ago Manhattan, NY david ross is signing with padres
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 19, 2014 11:57:55 GMT -5
The Padres goal is apparently to have every catcher in baseball on their roster at some point in December.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 19, 2014 12:07:02 GMT -5
Red Sox Stats ?@redsoxstats 23m23 minutes ago
Sox now have 2 of the 5 least run on catchers in baseball last year: Molina 3.1% Hanigan 4.0% Perez 4.2% Vazquez 4.2%
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 19, 2014 12:08:48 GMT -5
I think it's a terrible move. A young, power RH bat (one of the hottest commodities in baseball) for a backup C. I don't get it. If Middlebrooks didn't have options it makes sense, but send the guy to AAA, hopefully he can put together a healthy season and see what the results are. He definitely doesn't deserve to be in Boston on Opening Day, but if healthy, he could still be the .260/25 HR middle of the order force we thought he could be. See, I think this highlights one of the inherent problems with having a prospect "ranking," I think. Middlebrooks was never projected, in the sense of it being his realistic projection as opposed to his best-case-scenario ceiling, to be a "middle of the order force." He had power, but there were always issues with pitch recognition that he never showed signs of getting past. Sure, he was the top prospect in the system at one point, but that was at a time when the top of the system was as thin as it had been since the 2003, "dear god we need to draft all college players because there is nothing in this system" dark ages. Will Middlebrooks, at his peak value as a prospect, might not be a top five prospect in this system. He was ranked in the 50s across the board pre-2012, but I honestly think his value spiked a bit because he was the Red Sox's top prospect - if they had someone ahead of him, I think the rankers may have cooled off on him a bit. And even still, that was his only season even sniffing the top 100. His projection when we were at our most positive would've been a solid regular on a first division team. I you were looking at a three-ish win player in that case. Now, the problem is that this scenario has become his 5-10%, if he has an epiphany and things suddenly click scenario, and it wasn't going to happen with the Sox, who had clearly moved on. Glad for him that he'll get a chance out there to make it work in what will be a completely remade Padres lineup, but again, this is similar to the Cespedes trade in that he had much more value to another team than to the Red Sox. Meanwhile, I like Hanigan a lot as Vazquez's 2014 tutor. Hilariously, the Padres have now signed David Ross, per Heyman.
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Post by taftreign on Dec 19, 2014 12:15:35 GMT -5
Between the catching tandem and ground ball pitchers Boston is looking to control the run game. Not only is it less likely for teams to take the extra base once on but the increased ground balls generated may very well have the Red Sox lead the league in double plays allowing them to erase extra base runners. Especially adding in the use of shifts to maximize this potential. I know there are concerns with Xander at SS but I can easily see this team as the best defensive unit in baseball when you also account for the depth in Victorino/JBJ , Hanigan, Holt etc.
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