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Dan Butler traded to Nats for LHP Danny Rosenbaum
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Post by amfox1 on Jan 13, 2015 22:35:05 GMT -5
Pete Abraham ?@peteabe 4m4 minutes ago Based on this tweet -- … -- #RedSox have obtained AAA Nationals LHP Danny Rosenbaum. Coming off TJ surgery.
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Post by amfox1 on Jan 13, 2015 22:37:37 GMT -5
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Post by jmei on Jan 13, 2015 23:04:45 GMT -5
Rosenbaum was never a much-hyped prospect-- BA ranked him 23rd in the Nats system after 2011 and 22 in the Rockies system after 2012 (he was taken in the Rule 5 draft that winter, but was returned in 2013). Fangraphs ranked him 8th after 2012, with a scouting report you can read here. He's an extreme ground-ball pitcher (career 52.7% GB, per Minor League Central) without much strikeout stuff (career 6.15 K/9) but decent command/control (walk rates mostly in the 2s). He throws a low-90s/high-80s sinking fastball, a cutter, a curveball, and a changeup. As you might expect from a pitcher who throws platoon-neutral secondary pitches, he doesn't have much of a platoon split (3.33 FIP/3.88 SIERA versus LHH, 3.59 FIP/4.15 SIERA versus RHH over his MiLB career), which makes him a better fit for the rotation than for the bullpen. I figure he has the ceiling of a Wade Miley (ADD: though he's very unlikely to reach it) and the floor of a Chris Hernandez, likely projecting to be a fringy AAAA 5th starter type.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 13, 2015 23:29:58 GMT -5
Extreme ground ball pitchers are the new all-field, no-hit rookie ball shortstop...
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Post by panikl on Jan 14, 2015 4:13:19 GMT -5
Nick Cafardo ?@nickcafardo 1 Min.Vor 1 Minute The Pinehills, MA Red Sox deal catcher Dan Butler to Nationals for pitcher Danny rosenbaum
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 14, 2015 4:27:00 GMT -5
Nick Cafardo ?@nickcafardo 1 Min.Vor 1 Minute The Pinehills, MA Red Sox deal catcher Dan Butler to Nationals for pitcher Danny rosenbaum Stewart must be an idiot. . . . Mastrodonato piece speculating Bradley trade possibilities. He makes a good point regarding Hamels but forgets that Amaro is the decision maker there. He does include a BC quote which would make one think trading him is a consideration. If the Phillies lowered their asking price some and asked for Bradley instead of Betts (plus others), it’s hard to imagine the Red Sox saying no to that deal, even if they might regret it when Bradley turns into an everyday center fielder.
“I do think there are some teams that think of him in that way, as they should,” Boston general manager Ben Cherington said in November. “And we think of him in that way. You don’t know on what date it will all happen. But we certainly think of him as an everyday caliber center fielder.” www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2015/01/boston_red_sox_should_be_in_no.html#incart_m-rpt-1
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Post by sarasoxer on Jan 14, 2015 9:14:47 GMT -5
Extreme ground ball pitchers are the new all-field, no-hit rookie ball shortstop... An interesting analogy given the legions climbing Olympus to worship the new baseball god, Velocity.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jan 14, 2015 10:23:47 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 14, 2015 10:50:39 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 14, 2015 11:00:49 GMT -5
Rosenbaum has gotta be on a minor league contract at this point, right? There's no way he has options left. I take it he won't be on the 40 man?
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 14, 2015 11:20:09 GMT -5
Rosenbaum has gotta be on a minor league contract at this point, right? There's no way he has options left. I take it he won't be on the 40 man? He was acquired via trade and is not on the 40-man. He has all three options remaining if he ends up added to the MLB roster.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 14, 2015 11:20:19 GMT -5
Rosenbaum has gotta be on a minor league contract at this point, right? There's no way he has options left. I take it he won't be on the 40 man? I read it someplace, minor league contract, free agent after 2015 (unless the Sox put him on their 40 man).
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 14, 2015 11:37:48 GMT -5
Rosenbaum has gotta be on a minor league contract at this point, right? There's no way he has options left. I take it he won't be on the 40 man? He's never been added to the 40, so he has all his options.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 14, 2015 12:12:38 GMT -5
Thanks. Good deal then. We wouldn't have to add him to the 40 since he already got through the Rule 5, correct?
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 14, 2015 12:15:34 GMT -5
That is correct. As a 2009 draftee he would be eligible to become a minor league free agent following the 2015 season if he is not added to the 40-man roster. If he is added the Red Sox will have the standard three options and six years of service time.
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Post by artfuldodger on Jan 14, 2015 12:31:50 GMT -5
Rosenbaum had TJ surgery in May. Will he be ready in May? Or, is it more likely that he will sit out the year?
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 14, 2015 13:07:14 GMT -5
He resumed throwing in November. The average recovery time is now 12-14 months, so I'd say opening day is optimistic but 6/1 is reasonable.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 14, 2015 13:10:54 GMT -5
That is correct. As a 2009 draftee he would be eligible to become a minor league free agent following the 2015 season if he is not added to the 40-man roster. If he is added the Red Sox will have the standard three options and six years of service time. I was thinking to myself this morning that this was a high-upside relatively low-risk move, a nice lottery ticket. They have enough time to see what they have here, before the decision on his 40-man status has to be made. Given the wealth of catching talent they have, including Hannigan and Swihart to go with Vazquez, this was a decent acquisition for Butler, a guy I liked a lot. But he was going to be a break-the-glass emergency option at best. Rosenbaum may end up better than that.
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Post by moonstone2 on Jan 14, 2015 14:15:21 GMT -5
That is correct. As a 2009 draftee he would be eligible to become a minor league free agent following the 2015 season if he is not added to the 40-man roster. If he is added the Red Sox will have the standard three options and six years of service time. I was thinking to myself this morning that this was a high-upside relatively low-risk move, a nice lottery ticket. They have enough time to see what they have here, before the decision on his 40-man status has to be made. Given the wealth of catching talent they have, including Hannigan and Swihart to go with Vazquez, this was a decent acquisition for Butler, a guy I liked a lot. But he was going to be a break-the-glass emergency option at best. Rosenbaum may end up better than that. I dunno if there was a choice I'd rather have Butler in the organization than Rosenbaum. Unfortunately that wasn't a choice because clearly there were multiple teams interested in Butler. The chances that Rosenbaum has any value to the ML team himself or is traded for someone who ultimately does is very low. Sox got what they could.
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Post by jmei on Jan 14, 2015 14:38:18 GMT -5
I would have rather had Butler, too. How many superior prospects would Rosenbaum have to leapfrog before he entered into the major league equation? On the SP side, it's at least Ranaudo, Barnes, Wright, Owens, Johnson, and Rodriguez. The RP side is pretty stacked, too, with Workman, Layne, Hembree, Britton, Escobar, Hinojosa, Celestino, and whichever of the SP guys end up in the bullpen. Even just amongst left-handed relievers, he's third or fourth in line (behind some combination of Layne, Britton, and Escobar). The chances he sees meaningful major-league-time for the Red Sox are pretty low, especially since he's 27 already and will be a minor league free agent next season (one who might want to sign with a team with a less loaded SP depth chart) (yes, they can add him to the 40-man, but he'd have to be a more worthwhile add than the Rule 5 guys, which will include slam-dunk additions like Owens, Johnson, Marrero, Margot, and Ramos).
Butler was not super valuable, but he's the first guy called up if one of the major-league catchers get injured, and he's at least replacement-level (and probably slightly above, considering his defense and decent MiLB peripherals). I still think they should have found a way to keep him.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 14, 2015 15:11:17 GMT -5
Agree with the above two posts. Rosenbaum was traded for Butler, not the other way around, if you catch my drift.
He was picked in Rule 5 in 2012 by the Rockies and returned, and wasn't picked the last two years. There's something to be taken from that, imo.
He's basically this year's John Ely.
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Post by moonstone2 on Jan 14, 2015 15:21:59 GMT -5
I don't see how they could have.
The only way to keep him would have been cutting Britton which they don't want to do and I think we've hashed through as to why. Don't forget by the time we get around to actually throwing baseballs around that mean something the Sox are likely going to need at least one more spot.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 14, 2015 16:00:32 GMT -5
It's not so much that Butler was traded for Rosenbaum. It's that we got someone not on the 40 and freed up a spot we needed.
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Post by jmei on Jan 14, 2015 16:16:26 GMT -5
I don't see how they could have. The only way to keep him would have been cutting Britton which they don't want to do and I think we've hashed through as to why. Don't forget by the time we get around to actually throwing baseballs around that mean something the Sox are likely going to need at least one more spot. I don't want to rehash the Britton/Layne stuff, but I would have definitely rather cut Britton, and I might even have preferred it if they cut Layne. Hell, I kind of think they might have been better off not signing Breslow (who has some bounceback potential, but is 34 and saw his velo drop 1.5 mph last year) and keeping Butler.
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Post by moonstone2 on Jan 14, 2015 16:40:16 GMT -5
I don't see how they could have. The only way to keep him would have been cutting Britton which they don't want to do and I think we've hashed through as to why. Don't forget by the time we get around to actually throwing baseballs around that mean something the Sox are likely going to need at least one more spot. I don't want to rehash the Britton/Layne stuff, but I would have definitely rather cut Britton, and I might even have preferred it if they cut Layne. Hell, I kind of think they might have been better off not signing Breslow (who has some bounceback potential, but is 34 and saw his velo drop 1.5 mph last year) and keeping Butler. They are going to have two lefties in the pen in 2014 and given the experience of the candidates involved they weren't going into spring training with two of the three names you mentioned you know that. As for Breslow, a drop in velo would be consistent with fatigue from the 2013 playoff run which started to become apparent even at the end of the World Series. There is nothing wrong with his arm, so there is no reason to think that he won't come back....and if I'm wrong he'll be cut or put on the DL. Much more value than a third catcher whom optimistically by your own admission is barely above replacement level. How is he that much better than Luke Montz? For me, no way I cut Britton don't sign Breslow to keep Butler. I think I'd keep Butler over Layne but I could be convinced otherwise.
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