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Post by jimed14 on Jan 29, 2015 13:45:34 GMT -5
Talking about 2 pitch starting pitchers seems a little irrelevant, as all of them have two plus to elite pitches and/or plus to elite control/command, none of which Ranaudo has. He has never even flashed any of this. So yeah it's possible, but I might also win the lottery. Besides Ranaudo threw three pitches at least 10% of the time. Just throwing a 3rd pitch doesn't mean it should be thrown in the majors.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 29, 2015 14:16:12 GMT -5
There are plenty of successful two-pitch pitchers, however you want to actually parse them out with regard to a show-me third pitch. But those pitchers have at least one pitch that is exceptional. Why in the world are Randy Johnson, Mariano Rivera and Jake McGee be applicable to Anthony Ranaudo? You can't try to find comps based on a player's weaknesses without paying any attention to their strengths.
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Post by moonstone2 on Jan 29, 2015 14:19:14 GMT -5
FWIW
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Post by moonstone2 on Jan 29, 2015 14:24:23 GMT -5
There are plenty of successful two-pitch pitchers, however you want to actually parse them out with regard to a show-me third pitch. But those pitchers have at least one pitch that is exceptional. Why in the world are Randy Johnson, Mariano Rivera and Jake McGee be applicable to Anthony Ranaudo? You can't try to find comps based on a player's weaknesses without paying any attention to their strengths. Yes and they are generally relievers. Of the players that guidas mentioned, all threw something other than their top two pitches more than 10% of the time. Generally speaking, most starters need a third pitch to get through the order more than once, else they risk becoming too predictable and start to get hit the second time through. But they aren't applicable to Ranaudo anyways whom if successful as a starter, will need to throw his main pitch, his fastaball, over the plate.
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Post by moonstone2 on Jan 29, 2015 14:26:31 GMT -5
Besides Ranaudo threw three pitches at least 10% of the time. Just throwing a 3rd pitch doesn't mean it should be thrown in the majors. Weather he should or shouldn't isn't the issue, Ranaudo was not attempting to have success in the majors with a two pitch repertoire. Besides as I mentioned before he doesn't really have good command of that first pitch and that's the main issue.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 29, 2015 17:04:40 GMT -5
Just to clarify, Ranaudo throws 4 pitches. He spent the year adding a slider. The first half he rarely threw it except in the pen but was throwing it more often near the end of his Pawtucket time. Not a pitch quality comment.
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Post by m1keyboots on Jan 30, 2015 0:24:33 GMT -5
There are plenty of successful two-pitch pitchers, however you want to actually parse them out with regard to a show-me third pitch. But those pitchers have at least one pitch that is exceptional. Why in the world are Randy Johnson, Mariano Rivera and Jake McGee be applicable to Anthony Ranaudo? You can't try to find comps based on a player's weaknesses without paying any attention to their strengths. where does Jamie Moyer fit in? 2 pitches. "Fastball" slowball. Yes there were many variations of those two pitchest but from memory late in his career he didn't throw many breaking balls.
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Post by jmei on Jan 30, 2015 8:22:56 GMT -5
I don't think it's really accurate to say that Moyer just threw a fastball and a slowball. In the PITCHf/x era (2007-2012), Moyer threw what the algorithms identified as a fastball, a cutter, a sinker, a curveball, and a changeup. Even colloquially, he was known for being a junkballer who kept you off balance by throwing a little bit of everything.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 30, 2015 8:47:24 GMT -5
Some pitchers can make one pitch look like 3-4 different pitches. Bronson Arroyo comes to mind.
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Post by ramireja on Jan 30, 2015 8:56:58 GMT -5
A little late to the game....I don't hate the Ranaudo trade on its own necessarily. I will say though, that the Yankees appeared to get more for Manny Banuelos (1 major league quality relief arm entering arbitration + 1 pre-arb relief arm with major league potential and success in a SS) who I would imagine ranks behind in Ranaudo in most prospect lists.
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Post by moonstone2 on Jan 30, 2015 10:22:25 GMT -5
I don't think it's really accurate to say that Moyer just threw a fastball and a slowball. In the PITCHf/x era (2007-2012), Moyer threw what the algorithms identified as a fastball, a cutter, a sinker, a curveball, and a changeup. Even colloquially, he was known for being a junkballer who kept you off balance by throwing a little bit of everything. I have posted this article before...but I don't know if you saw it. Seems right up your ally. Has anyone read his book? www.thepostgame.com/blog/eye-performance/201311/jamie-moyer-larry-platt-mlb-baseball-pitching-book-radar-gun
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Post by greenmonstah on Feb 4, 2015 20:19:44 GMT -5
A little late to the game....I don't hate the Ranaudo trade on its own necessarily. I will say though, that the Yankees appeared to get more for Manny Banuelos (1 major league quality relief arm entering arbitration + 1 pre-arb relief arm with major league potential and success in a SS) who I would imagine ranks behind in Ranaudo in most prospect lists. I agree, it's a fine trade for the Sox, nothing incredible. I do find it interesting that Banuelos fetched more, but that is likely because he is over a year younger than Ranaudo.
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Post by moonstone2 on Feb 4, 2015 22:33:14 GMT -5
A little late to the game....I don't hate the Ranaudo trade on its own necessarily. I will say though, that the Yankees appeared to get more for Manny Banuelos (1 major league quality relief arm entering arbitration + 1 pre-arb relief arm with major league potential and success in a SS) who I would imagine ranks behind in Ranaudo in most prospect lists. I agree, it's a fine trade for the Sox, nothing incredible. I do find it interesting that Banuelos fetched more, but that is likely because he is over a year younger than Ranaudo. I would say Banuelos has more upside. Was a top prospect before he got hurt. If Ranaudo has ever made the top 100 it was in the back.
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TX
Veteran
Posts: 265
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Post by TX on Apr 19, 2015 19:04:45 GMT -5
Gallardo is league average, Sardinas is a defensive specialist, and I'm not aware of the young pitching upgrade. I'll presume they're not much, given Gallardo. But Marrero looks much better, Gallardo would be slotted somewhere between Masterson and Kelly, and comparing this entire fiasco to our trading a redundant catcher for one of the top starters in the league is ridiculous. Actually post after post after post saying basically the same thing that most people here don't seem to subscribe to is even more ridiculous. Nice post runabus, thanks for the input. Too soon?
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Post by m1keyboots on Apr 19, 2015 20:55:47 GMT -5
I don't think it's really accurate to say that Moyer just threw a fastball and a slowball. In the PITCHf/x era (2007-2012), Moyer threw what the algorithms identified as a fastball, a cutter, a sinker, a curveball, and a changeup. Even colloquially, he was known for being a junkballer who kept you off balance by throwing a little bit of everything. I didn't come back to gloat, bc ranaudo hasn't lit it up either, but by that I meant at the end of his career, his offspeed stuff wasn't fooling anyone. His "junk" pitches seemed to growing to similair to themselves. IE, a 76mpH "sinker" isn't much different than a 70mph changeup or 72mpH changeup that he cuts. It seemed to work when he was able to keep the "fastball" around 82 ish. But I haven't seen any non submariners get by with the junk Moyer was throwing up there when the fastball is sitting 75 and the change 68. My adult blue grey league (which had Pete Schourek, Emmanuel burriss among others) ! Seemed to have guys with better stuff. Although I could never know. But I did take pere to rf for a triple. Claim. To. Fame.
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