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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Feb 17, 2015 11:59:18 GMT -5
Sandoval is a true throwback to a time when players attended spring training to get back in playing shape since they were working full time jobs after the season ended.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 17, 2015 12:17:21 GMT -5
Dude that IS his playing shape.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 17, 2015 12:26:21 GMT -5
Rob Bradford ?@bradfo 3m3 minutes ago Henry Owens is up to 220 pounds. Says he was at 175 when he signed. Constant that is that he hasn't grown vertically (still 6-foot-6)
Rob Bradford ?@bradfo 2m2 minutes ago 205 RT @tavarestyler @bradfo Do you recall what weight he finished 2014 at?
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Feb 17, 2015 12:46:14 GMT -5
Dude that IS his playing shape. Yupp, tbh i think he looks a little smaller than I recall. That's not saying much tho
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Post by soxfan06 on Feb 17, 2015 13:27:45 GMT -5
Dude that IS his playing shape. Yep. Everyone knew when we signed Sandoval that we were getting a pudgy one. That's what he has looked like his whole career.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 17, 2015 13:40:04 GMT -5
Rob Bradford ?@bradfo 3m3 minutes ago Henry Owens is up to 220 pounds. Says he was at 175 when he signed. Constant that is that he hasn't grown vertically (still 6-foot-6) Rob Bradford ?@bradfo 2m2 minutes ago 205 RT @tavarestyler @bradfo Do you recall what weight he finished 2014 at? Maybe his stuff finally ticks up this year.
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Post by grandsalami on Feb 17, 2015 13:54:52 GMT -5
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Post by jrffam05 on Feb 17, 2015 15:00:32 GMT -5
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Post by pedroelgrande on Feb 17, 2015 16:14:58 GMT -5
Oh breaking news Pablo Sandoval looks fat.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 17, 2015 18:47:50 GMT -5
Sandoval looks like someone I'd have a beer with.
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Post by jmei on Feb 17, 2015 18:51:24 GMT -5
Oh breaking news Pablo Sandoval looks is fat.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Feb 17, 2015 19:10:40 GMT -5
Ortiz has looked fatter than this on occasion. It is a body type, guys, get over it. It doesn't mean he isn't going to hit or field.
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Post by m1keyboots on Feb 17, 2015 19:36:12 GMT -5
Ortiz has looked fatter than this on occasion. It is a body type, guys, get over it. It doesn't mean he isn't going to hit or field. agreed, at that size he always seems to be perfectly able to leg out his doubles, first to third etc. Does anyone really want him to drop 40 pounds and play at a weight he's never played at? Possibly be uncomfortable? At what point is he "skinny enough" for fans that we think he'll suddenly be able to get through a year unhurt or hit 300 with 20 dingers? Something he's done at a higher weight throughout his career anyway.
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Post by soxfan06 on Feb 17, 2015 20:14:05 GMT -5
Ortiz has looked fatter than this on occasion. It is a body type, guys, get over it. It doesn't mean he isn't going to hit or field. agreed, at that size he always seems to be perfectly able to leg out his doubles, first to third etc. Does anyone really want him to drop 40 pounds and play at a weight he's never played at? Possibly be uncomfortable? At what point is he "skinny enough" for fans that we think he'll suddenly be able to get through a year unhurt or hit 300 with 20 dingers? Something he's done at a higher weight throughout his career anyway. I'm not someone who takes issue with Sandoval's size. I've seen him before and expected exactly that. But lets not pretend that slimming down would be a bad thing. It's not like Sandoval has always been some power hitting, huge slugger who needs 300 LBs in order to hit balls out of the park. IMO, there would be nothing be positives to Sandoval playing at something like 220. Not that I'm expecting that. I understand this is who he is and I'll live with it like the Red Sox will too.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 17, 2015 20:47:02 GMT -5
agreed, at that size he always seems to be perfectly able to leg out his doubles, first to third etc. Does anyone really want him to drop 40 pounds and play at a weight he's never played at? Possibly be uncomfortable? At what point is he "skinny enough" for fans that we think he'll suddenly be able to get through a year unhurt or hit 300 with 20 dingers? Something he's done at a higher weight throughout his career anyway. I'm not someone who takes issue with Sandoval's size. I've seen him before and expected exactly that. But lets not pretend that slimming down would be a bad thing. It's not like Sandoval has always been some power hitting, huge slugger who needs 300 LBs in order to hit balls out of the park. IMO, there would be nothing be positives to Sandoval playing at something like 220. Not that I'm expecting that. I understand this is who he is and I'll live with it like the Red Sox will too. It might be coincidental, but it didn't help CC Sabathia. Papi works a lot harder now to keep slightly thinner because it started to become a problem for him as he got older.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 18, 2015 9:11:18 GMT -5
Ortiz has looked fatter than this on occasion. It is a body type, guys, get over it. It doesn't mean he isn't going to hit or field. agreed, at that size he always seems to be perfectly able to leg out his doubles, first to third etc. Does anyone really want him to drop 40 pounds and play at a weight he's never played at? Possibly be uncomfortable? At what point is he "skinny enough" for fans that we think he'll suddenly be able to get through a year unhurt or hit 300 with 20 dingers? Something he's done at a higher weight throughout his career anyway. Nope, Ortiz has never looked as 'heavy' as that side view. I guess there wasn't a weight clause. We all want to be positive but whooeee that guy is rotundus americanus or the Dominican version. I don't care how nimble he is, that size has to take away from what his fielding skill level would be if even somewhat more svelte. If his play does not match up to expectations I can imagine that he and Boston will fast fall out of favor. That has to be a load on his heart too especially at high exertion.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 18, 2015 13:18:30 GMT -5
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Post by brianthetaoist on Feb 18, 2015 13:28:29 GMT -5
Sure, it matters that Pablo Sandoval's overweight ... but it's not like this is a surprise. It's like if everyone was shocked that Uehara showed up to training camp without a 95 mph fastball; it's just part of the deal with Pablo. If he was in great shape, he would've been more costly as a free agent.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 18, 2015 13:43:18 GMT -5
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 18, 2015 15:17:49 GMT -5
There is truth in the article of course and, as Mickey Lolich once said when he exhibited similar girth, "I don't pitch with my stomach". But Boston is an unforgiving town and it will equate his excessive weight with less desire (if he performs less than expected and a scapegoat if the team dives). I remember Mo the "Hit Dog". When people complained about his ever expanding belt line as his performance declined, he would say "Hey, it's my body. I'm a big man"....As I recall he sort of ate himself out of baseball at 34 or so. I believe that the advanced fielding stats show a decline for Panda from far above average to a slide below par over the past three seasons. His offensive numbers have also dropped off a bit. It will all play out.
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Post by mattpicard on Feb 18, 2015 15:36:44 GMT -5
There is truth in the article of course and, as Mickey Lolich once said when he exhibited similar girth, "I don't pitch with my stomach". But Boston is an unforgiving town and it will equate his excessive weight with less desire (if he performs less than expected and a scapegoat if the team dives). I remember Mo the "Hit Dog". When people complained about his ever expanding belt line as his performance declined, he would say "Hey, it's my body. I'm a big man"....As I recall he sort of ate himself out of baseball at 34 or so. I believe that the advanced fielding stats show a decline for Panda from far above average to a slide below par over the past three seasons. His offensive numbers have also dropped off a bit. It will all play out. Here are his career defensive numbers for those interested. Basically, he had one fantastic defensive season in 2011, and since then, he's been around average. Also, FWIW, Fangraphs Fan Scouting Report and Inside Edge numbers have him being at his best in 2014. DRS UZR UZR/150
2009 -11 -3.9 -5.7 2010 1 -0.5 -0.5 2011 15 13.2 19.3 2012 -5 1.0 1.4 2013 -5 -4.7 -6.3 2014 4 3.5 3.5
Total 0 10.5 2.2
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Feb 18, 2015 15:46:35 GMT -5
As stated several years ago, baseball intangibles are a complex mix of literally hundreds of variables. Hand eye coordination, eyesight, hand speed, pitch recognition....many of the things we attempt to explain through baseball terms can be subdivided into more precise analytics. A direct quote from the article below: "We’ve seen that there’s this strong connection between the visual processing side of hitting a baseball and the motor side of deciding whether to swing or not to swing,” said Jason Sherwin, founder and CEO of deCervo, a New York-based neuroscouting startup. “The whole idea is that you can measure these expertise-level effects on a neural level" www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/02/18/neuroscouting-may-give-red-sox-heads-prospects-potential/EFBHR3zNdThk1NboRpNMHL/story.htmlTheLavarnwayguy remains vindicated in his earlier analysis. Mental processing ability IS a baseball intangible.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 18, 2015 16:19:49 GMT -5
As stated several years ago, baseball intangibles are a complex mix of literally hundreds of variables. Hand eye coordination, eyesight, hand speed, pitch recognition....many of the things we attempt to explain through baseball terms can be subdivided into more precise analytics. A direct quote from the article below: "We’ve seen that there’s this strong connection between the visual processing side of hitting a baseball and the motor side of deciding whether to swing or not to swing,” said Jason Sherwin, founder and CEO of deCervo, a New York-based neuroscouting startup. “The whole idea is that you can measure these expertise-level effects on a neural level" www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/02/18/neuroscouting-may-give-red-sox-heads-prospects-potential/EFBHR3zNdThk1NboRpNMHL/story.htmlTheLavarnwayguy remains vindicated in his earlier analysis. Mental processing ability IS a baseball intangible. This has nothing to do with mental toughness or clutch. It's reaction time and quick decision making in coordination with vision.
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Post by jmei on Feb 18, 2015 16:26:04 GMT -5
As stated several years ago, baseball intangibles are a complex mix of literally hundreds of variables. Hand eye coordination, eyesight, hand speed, pitch recognition....many of the things we attempt to explain through baseball terms can be subdivided into more precise analytics. A direct quote from the article below: "We’ve seen that there’s this strong connection between the visual processing side of hitting a baseball and the motor side of deciding whether to swing or not to swing,” said Jason Sherwin, founder and CEO of deCervo, a New York-based neuroscouting startup. “The whole idea is that you can measure these expertise-level effects on a neural level" www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/02/18/neuroscouting-may-give-red-sox-heads-prospects-potential/EFBHR3zNdThk1NboRpNMHL/story.htmlTheLavarnwayguy remains vindicated in his earlier analysis. Mental processing ability IS a baseball intangible. If you can scout it, it's probably not an intangible, and scouts have long been talking about Betts' hand-eye coordination (see the discussion of his quick hands in this 2012 scouting report). I would caution you to avoid lumping too much stuff together under the category of "intangibles"-- elite hand-eye coordination is not what most folks think of when they use that term (it's usually used to suggest leadership or chemistry or "the will to win", which is the farthest thing from what is discussed in the linked article). Similarly, elite hand-eye coordination is not usually the sort of "mental processing ability" that gets you into Yale, and one does not imply the other (indeed, I'd expect that they're negatively correlated).
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 18, 2015 16:49:03 GMT -5
Look, we're all different. There is an enormous amount of variability in the human gene pool. It's a mistake to put everyone in the same group, and then to conjecture that some can rise up with a set of "intangibles". Some people have exceptional hand-eye coordination, such as Pedroia and apparently Betts, some, such as Middlebrooks, do not. We don't expect everyone to run at the same speed, or to have the same endurance. Why do we think it would be different with eyesight? There are very different parts of the brain that handle different aspects of our response to a situation: No reason to think it's the same for everyone.
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