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Three up, three down, three gems
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 3, 2015 5:34:36 GMT -5
I'm interested in people's individual opinions on players and the threes format works for me. Use any format you wish but please explain what your opinion is based on. Pretty much anything is fair game for an open discussion. I'll start:
Three ups: Javier Guerra. His defense is already being comped to Marrero and down the stretch and into the playoffs, he was GCL's best hitter. Luis Diaz. 22 mid 90's fastball, decent change, curve/slider needs work. I like his ability to hold velocity deep into games and his pitch efficiency. There were several Salem games where he averaged around 10 pitches per inning. That's rare. Henry Ramos. Last season I watched a previously raw player coming into his own on both sides of the game. Hopefully he will pick up where he left off when injured.
Three downs: (Not my favorite topic) Wendell Rijo. Sorry but I just don't see it. He looked seriously over-matched even considering his age. His decent season long stats were buoyed by a hot hot April. Watching him and the same aged Margot together, the difference was huge. Simon Mercedez. At 22, he's far too inconsistent with finding the strike zone. In spite of his high upside repertoire, he seems unlikely to me to harness it. Sean Coyle. I like him as a player but I see an injury magnet with a utility player ceiling that can't play SS. I don't think his game will translate to the majors and I only see him as average at 2nd and below average at third.
Three hidden gems: Jordan Weems. Even when he was hitting poorly at the beginning of the season, the ball was screaming off his bat. He's a well tooled defensive catcher that takes charge out there. Like Ramos, he was starting to come into his own when injured, Jhonathan Diaz. There aren't many 17 year old pitchers that put up the kind on numbers that Diaz did this past year. Even the peripherals look age advanced. He was the ace of a strong staff. Karsten Whitson. Former first round draftee, it will be interesting to see what's under the hood if he can stay healthy.
Your turn, the categories don't have to be the same, I'm mostly interested in where your opinion differs from what you perceive to be the norm...
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,823
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Post by steveofbradenton on Mar 3, 2015 8:03:46 GMT -5
I'm personally a big fan of Javier Guerra. He really wasn't the best GCL hitter (Devers was easily), but he really consistently put the ball in play and often with some sting. Very interested in what he accomplishes in full season ball. He could really be a real gem and rank even higher in our eyes come August.
I could probably say some of the same things about Henry Ramos. He has physically filled out nicely and is certainly a good looking athlete. I wouldn't be shocked, if he stays healthy, if he jumped up on the prospect list a lot. He finally is turning into baseball player as his early experience was not totally focused on the diamond. It is always surprising how many fans have no idea about the importance of staying healthy and being able to continue a consistent path of improvement. When you follow a farm system, as we do, we see first hand some very talented individuals not ever quite developing....and a lot of it is because of missed time or bad timing.
Luis Diaz, to me, is at a crossroads. Yes he has had some very good moments, but there are so many pitchers ahead of him.....I'm not sure his TIMING is good. Trade chip.
As for Wendell Rijo: still VERY young. Your comments about him may be too early. After this season, they will be "right on", if he doesn't progress. The few times I saw him, he was a player who seemed to always be in the right place and going about his business in the right way. Another year and I think we will have a very good idea of what we have. I personally like him and think he will fill out some and get stronger. He does have a good idea of what he is doing at the plate and what his strengths are currently.
I don't see much future for Weems. I have never seen Diaz. And I too am intrigued about what Whitson will do this year. I'm following him closely.
My personal focus will be on 2 lower prospects. Trenton Kemp and Nick Longhi are guys that I like.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 3, 2015 10:07:34 GMT -5
Since my intent is to have people say where they go against the general grain, I don't want to do an infinite lavarnwayguy style defense. On the other hand you brought up a related item that I wanted to comment on. The trade chip part.
I don't think that's the case (or for Haley) for several reasons. 1. For a trade chip you would want that chip to develop maximum value. Half a year at AA isn't the best timing. Nothing is lost by a year at AA. 2 If we trade for an ace either before the season starts or at the deadline, it's almost a given that it will involve at least one of the PawSox starters. 3. Mastersona and Porcello are both one year rentals. 4. A few of the starters (Barnes, Escobar) are starting to look like future relievers partially because of all that current depth.
I'm guessing the AAA rotation is not going to be anywhere near as crowded this time next year.
Purely hypothetical but non zero chance extreme example. We include Owens/Buchholz in a package for Hamels. We give QO to Masterson/Porcello and replace them with Rodriguez and Johnson. Escobar who will be out of options to the pen and Barnes who won't have much to prove at AAA and would have great 8th inning stuff to the pen. Poof, the entire PawSox rotation has been used up.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,700
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Post by nomar on Mar 3, 2015 10:11:43 GMT -5
Trenton Kemp was raking in the last few weeks of the season. Love his potential.
Hope to see an improving approach from Guerra this year.
Jhonathan Diaz will be interesting to watch. Was dominant last year on paper, but I never have seem him actually throw.
Still think Ramos tops out as a 4th outfielder unless his power really takes a jump and/or he starts hitting more liners.
Rijo has some issues. Shaky defense, strikes out too much (at 21.8% last year), but he's young and there's a lot of life in his bat. I think he may develop more power than people expect, but I'd like to see him cut down on Ks. I still like his potential and youth.
Mercedes is someone I'd convert to relief, albeit I know it is very early to do so. I just don't see it clicking, we have SP depth, and he could be a lights out reliever.
Weems is a career minor leaguer. No power at all. Last year was BABIP driven and a SSS.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Mar 3, 2015 15:23:07 GMT -5
I'm not that confident in predictions, but following the theme, here are some Rules of Three I'm looking at in terms of guys who could bump themselves up a notch (or not):
The three AAA lefties: It's nice that there's depth at the top of the system and all, because there's a lot riding on these guys (and Barnes) ... if they don't work out, there's a LONG way to go before the next possible pitching prospect would be ready. I mean, you're looking at years, unless someone like Teddy S and Mercedes or something like that just pops. But, I have high hopes for Owens, think Johnson could be a solid pitcher, and I'm on the Board of Directors of the Rodriguez fan club, so there's a lot to look at there.
The Tres Amigos in A-ball: Three uber prospects in A ball in Moncada, Devers, and Margot. All of these guys could be top-20 level elite prospects in the next 1-2 years and could make a major difference for the team's future, so it'll be fun watching them
Three guys who could take a step into national lists: Javier Guerra, Nick Longhi, and Michael Chavis are obvious names to focus on at the lower reaches of A ball (although I'm higher than most on Longhi), all could put themselves on the national map with good performances this year
Three Centerfielders: For a variety of reasons, I'm interested in seeing what Mars, Kemp, and X Basabe do this year. All athletic guys with differing profiles, will be interesting to see how they develop this year
Three young pitchers: Kopech and Ball, obviously, and also Cosart interest me greatly. All of them have a ways to go, but they are all premium arms.
Three "what have we here?" second-basemen Coyle, Rijo, and Asuaje ... Coyle and Asuaje have the distinct advantage of positional flexibility, but all of these guys are coming off good-to-great performances last year.
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Post by raftsox on Mar 3, 2015 15:41:55 GMT -5
This is a fun idea.
3 Up: - Deven Marrero: I really like his overall skillset. He could easily be a solid regular for the Sox for a long time were he not blocked, therefore I think he's a solid trade-chip. - Trey Ball: I think he starts to put it together this season. - Rafael Devers: Yeah, this one isn't a stretch. But, it's his first season stateside and his combination of Hit and Power should dominate low A. I wouldn't be surprised to see him move up to Salem at some point.
3 Down: - Michael Kopech: Threw in the low 90s until he got caught up with the other Summer Circuit pitchers to try to hit 100. [His own words, I forget the interviewer though] I think that's a clear indicator of looming elbow problems. - Garin Cecchini: Solid hit tool is usually encouraging, but his attempt to increase the power killed everything good about his game. Adding to questionable defense and where his bat will settle is that he's blocked at every position with a lot better upside pushing him from the lower levels. I think he becomes a throw in in a trade. - Nick Longhi: just a "meh" player for me.
3 Gems: - Pat Light: he doesn't really have the stuff to be a starter, but I think he could dominate in relief. - Steven Wright: I love the knuckleball. Really wish he would be given a chance. - Ty Buttrey: He's a huge guy and the Sox re-made his pitching motion. That combination can take a while to gel and I think he starts to regain some of his shine this season.
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Post by ramireja on Mar 3, 2015 18:55:55 GMT -5
Three Ups: - Carlos Asuaje: His triple-slash line was insane and he offers defensive versatility. I'm buying the offensive line (to a degree) for two reasons: 1) his line stayed strong upon moving to High-A, and 2) he was remarkably consistent throughout the year...I don't recall his success being attributed to a monster month or anything like that. Now I'm not saying Asuaje will ever be a starting 2B for a first division team, but I love his floor and think he could be a utility guy on a 1st division team, or starter on a 2nd division team. I think he moves from #29 to the 15-20 range. - Mauricio Dubon: Love the combination of defensive ability according to scouts (although I recall a healthy number of errors but thats ok for now), and his insane contact rate. I foresee a continuation of high batting average while being able to play a solid SS. Not sure that the approach or power will tick up, but I think the combo of hit/defense moves him from #36 to the 21-25 range. - Kevin McAvoy: The early reports suggest his sinking fastball with solid velocity could be very effective. Couple that with a lack of walks and I think he produces a solid WHIP at either Greenvile or even Salem. I think he moves from #42 to the 21-25 range.
Three Downs: I just want to note that my bias in thinking that every Sox prospect is better than they are currently projected makes this very difficult. Okay that being said: - Travis Shaw: I don't see him convincing anyone that he is worthy of a 25 man spot, and perhaps not even a 40 man. He's not an awful player by any means, but as he cements his status as a AAAA player, that should be enough to knock him out of the top 20 (similar to the Brentz career path). - Michael Kopech: Okay, you all hate me now....and I hope I'm wrong...but I think the amount of hype based on his velocity and emerging secondaries is masking some rawness. Now here me out, I'm super excited about Kopech and hope he develops into a stud. But I think we need to patient with him and I foresee some high walk rates/initial struggles that bump him out of the top 10 (but not below 15-20). Think Henry Owens after year 1: High WHIP, but also high K rate to keep intrigue alive. - Wendell Rijo: I'll second this. He may struggle a little this year, but he will still be super young for the league and will have plenty of time to bounce back.
Three Gems: - Yoan Aybar: Move over Moncada, I was the first Yoan in this system. I'm intrigued by reports of his tools, holding his own in the DSL despite being incredibly young, and a vague memory of a quote from <insert random scout here> who said he had the potential to be one of the better OF from his signing class. - Josh Pennington: My Gabe Speier of this year. High school draftee coming off of Tommy John who had generated at least a mild amount of buzz (even if mostly regional) for an amateur player prior to his injury. - Trenton Kemp: I'll co-sign this. Some loud tools here, but honestly have heard very little about the bat itself. I'll cross my fingers and hope the bat is decent enough to let some of the tools breath.
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Post by mgoetze on Mar 3, 2015 20:24:16 GMT -5
- Travis Shaw: I don't see him convincing anyone that he is worthy of a 25 man spot, and perhaps not even a 40 man. He's not an awful player by any means, but as he cements his status as a AAAA player, that should be enough to knock him out of the top 20 (similar to the Brentz career path). A AAAA player, to me, is someone who got a shot at the majors and failed. Fair enough to predict this will happen but I don't believe it's appropriate to call Travis Shaw a AAAA player yet.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,700
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Post by nomar on Mar 3, 2015 20:43:26 GMT -5
Glad someone mentioned Aybar, high ceiling on him. He and Kemp would definitely be two of my gems.
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Post by charliezink16 on Mar 4, 2015 2:41:25 GMT -5
Three Players Jumping to Top 100 Prospect StatusMichael Chavis: The obvious one, have to love the hit tool. Trey Ball: I'll take Ball over Kopech here. Kopech has great stuff, but he's certainly a project beginning development this year, a year Ball has under his belt. Sam Travis: Keith Law says it's possible and I agree. Travis was definitely overshadowed by Schwarber, and his power will be on display in Portland. Three Under-the-Radar Players Rising to Red Sox Top 10 StatusAnderson Espinoza: If this stuff is as advertised, this can certainly happen. Boston blew past the penalty mainly to get this kid, he must have nasty stuff. Simon Mercedes: Old for AA? Not exactly, but older than most Top 10 guys are. Age will be overlooked if Mercedes puts it together. A fastball that has touched 100 plus two pitches (slider, changeup) that have flashed plus? Hope he shows some consistency. Jarred Cosart: Real long shot here, yet I wouldn't rule it out. Ian's scouting report here shows that Boston has a lot to work with. May take time to put it together, but hey who knows? Three Under-the-Radar Major League ContributorsBryce Brentz: A Victorino trade plus one injury would be the only path, but if it happens and Brentz starts hot, a Brentz/Nava platoon would be passable over the extent of the players' injury. Deven Marerro: If Bogaerts misses an extended period of time, Boston may use Holt or Hanley, but a good start in AAA could catapult Marerro into a starting spot. Noe Ramirez: Not on 40-man so injuries may have to pave the way, but Ramirez's control and descent K numbers at every level could extend to Boston. Helium WatchKevin McAvoy: 67.6 GB% was highest among pitchers in the system. Stuff isn't overpowering, but GB rates can't be overlooked. Mauricio Dubon: Potential above average defensive SS with room to grow and already a knack to put the bat on the ball. Hasn't walked much, but certainly a player to watch. Josh Ockimey: Raw power to all fields including a 420 foot bomb at Fenway as an 18 year old? Stats weren't pretty last year, but I struggle to overlook power prospects (damn you Kendrick Perkins) Williams Jerez: The definition of a helium prospect. .353 opponent BABIP, 10.49K/9, 2.88BB/9 ain't so bad.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 4, 2015 6:36:33 GMT -5
3. Mastersona and Porcello are both one year rentals. Porcello is not a rental in the teams eyes not even close. He's their veteran starter of the future. He's hitting FA at a super young age for a player and the Sox want to take full advantage of that. Sure they want to see more of him, but he's a guy that they want to sign longterm. It's no secret they don't like longterm contracts for pitchers over 30, which is why Porcello is like gold to them.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 4, 2015 7:07:33 GMT -5
3. Mastersona and Porcello are both one year rentals. Porcello is not a rental in the teams eyes not even close. He's their veteran starter of the future. He's hitting FA at a super young age for a player and the Sox want to take full advantage of that. Sure they want to see more of him, but he's a guy that they want to sign longterm. It's no secret they don't like longterm contracts for pitchers over 30, which is why Porcello is like gold to them. I don't disagree with any of that but in this age of players taking insurance contracts in their final year, he's a rental until there's dry blood on the dotted line. The Red Sox aren't the only team that knows his age. LOL, even the nyyfans.com posters know it.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 4, 2015 9:28:09 GMT -5
To me a rental is someone you acquire knowing he will only be there for a year.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 4, 2015 12:26:09 GMT -5
In that strict a definition, that would be rare. The only recent example I can think of is AJ Placeholder who was clearly here while Vazquez was being readied.
Rental is probably as self-interpreted as differently as other terms like 'ace'. To me, it's any player with one year of control so, I'd include Mujica, Victorino and Napoli as rentals at this point in time. I wouldn't include Ortiz or Buchholz because the Sox have options.
The extreme would be to say all players are rentals, just the length of the lease is different.
It's all just semantics. In my example above, I was just pointing out how much turnover can happen in a single year. The chance that the Sox don't end up with a long term contract on Porcello is nowhere near zero (although I wish it was). A year ago, the majority opinion was that Lester would be wearing a Sox uni right now. There's no telling what Porcello and his agent will want, either it's more than the Sox think he's worth or it isn't.
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,405
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Post by ianrs on Mar 4, 2015 15:37:40 GMT -5
Three Up 1. Mauricio Dubon: Had an incredibly impressive contact rate for a teenager in a largely pitcher's dominated league. Even more impressive that he has average to above average defense at SS. I think he will cement his status as a legitimate prospect and push for a top 10 on Soxprospects by the end of the year.
2. Manuel Margot: I know there's not much more for him to go up but I really see him as having a breakout year in Portland and showing an impressive combination of power, speed, and defense at CF. Incredibly similar to Andrew McCutchen at a similar age in A and A+ ball. I think he ends up in the top 15 prospects in baseball by season's end.
3. Nick Longhi: Similar story to Dubon, very impressive as a teenager in Lowell before injuries ended his season. Think he'll show promise in his full-season debut at Greenville and maybe even push for a cup of coffee at Salem by year's end.
Three Down 1. Pat Light 2. Simon Mercedes 3. Jamie Callahan
I view each of these guys as throwers rather than pitchers, which you just can't survive as in the current state of the game. There are tons of guys who can throw in the mid to high 90's, especially now, but that does not matter if you can't pitch. I see each of these young arms flaming out further this year if they can't develop a better combination of secondaries and command.
Three Gems 1. Henry Ramos: I think Ramos will end up as an extremely valuable 4th OF as a switch hitter with average defense and average to above average offense. He'll bounce back after a poor season and do well for himself in Pawtucket.
2. Kevin McAvoy: Had an insane groundball rate and was fairly young for a college draftee. Won't wow you with stuff but impressive sinker. Expect him to do well in Portland by year's end.
3. Steven Wright: Not sure if it will be for the Red Sox, but I really see Wright having a successful and long career as a back end of the rotation starter. I really hope he gets his shot here because I don't think we will receive comparable value in return for what he will provide in WAR for a new team. Don't understand why he doesn't get more love.
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 4, 2015 17:26:27 GMT -5
3. Steven Wright: Not sure if it will be for the Red Sox, but I really see Wright having a successful and long career as a back end of the rotation starter. I really hope he gets his shot here because I don't think we will receive comparable value in return for what he will provide in WAR for a new team. Don't understand why he doesn't get more love. Because knuckleballers are killing the game man.
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Post by amfox1 on Jun 16, 2015 8:35:14 GMT -5
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