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Post by mjammz on Nov 10, 2012 8:35:25 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal Sources: Free-agent catcher David Ross agrees to two-year deal with #RedSox, pending physical.
Probably the best backup catcher in baseball and great defensively. Looks like Salty's time in Boston is probably up.
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Post by mjammz on Nov 10, 2012 8:40:38 GMT -5
Career caught stealing % of 39 and a 44% caught stealing % last year. It's been a huge weakness for this team, very underrated player.
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Post by jdb on Nov 10, 2012 8:47:06 GMT -5
Great signing. Agree that it's likely the end of Salty but maybe it's Lavarnway. He would have a lot more value, wouldn't he?
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Post by mjammz on Nov 10, 2012 9:10:11 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal Ross will be “more than a backup but not a starter” for #RedSox, source says. Team could move Salty or Lavarnway. Plans unclear.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,823
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Post by steveofbradenton on Nov 10, 2012 9:11:13 GMT -5
Great signing. Agree that it's likely the end of Salty but maybe it's Lavarnway. He would have a lot more value, wouldn't he? WOW............what a great signing!! He automatically improves our pitching and defense............and he has a little pop. Either Salty or Lavarnway could be part of a deal now!
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Post by remember04 on Nov 10, 2012 9:27:43 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal Sources: Free-agent catcher David Ross agrees to two-year deal with #RedSox, pending physical. Probably the best backup catcher in baseball and great defensively. Looks like Salty's time in Boston is probably up. Not saying this is what they should do but Salty was playing first in Texas. Until they have another firstbaseman I'll keep that in mind and if they do part ways with him I hope they do it before they acquire that firstbaseman as not to diminish his perceived value.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 10, 2012 9:48:31 GMT -5
Not the Ross we were expecting but a good sign nonetheless. I liked him when he was here and was disappointed Theo didn't hang on to him.
I see him as a platoon with Saltalamacchia as Salty is better hitting from the left side.
Lavarnway just didn't display the power we all expected last year at Pawtucket. And he was awful on his September recall with the big club. He definitely needs more experience at AAA.
I wonder, too, whether this could be a precurser to a Lavarnway trade since, as has been pointed out, he is more in demand.
Wonder how this affects the Sox pursuit of Napoli.
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Post by mjammz on Nov 10, 2012 9:53:05 GMT -5
Not the Ross we were expecting but a good sign nonetheless. I liked him when he was here and was disappointed Theo didn't hang on to him. I see him as a platoon with Saltalamacchia as Salty is better hitting from the left side. Lavarnway just didn't display the power we all expected last year at Pawtucket. And he was awful on his September recall with the big club. He definitely needs more experience at AAA. I wonder, too, whether this could be a precurser to a Lavarnway trade since, as has been pointed out, he is more in demand. Wonder how this affects the Sox pursuit of Napoli. I love the signing as well, and I was also wondering how this affects our interest in Napoli. This could be a case where the Red Sox end up completely rebuild the catching position by trading Salty and Lavarnway. The catching market is awful and the Red Sox have two assets. A Napoli/Ross combo, would allow Ross to play "more than a back-up". While at the same time getting some prospects for Salty who I don't think fits with the direction of the club due to poor OBP and high K rate. Also, Rosenthal reported the deal is 2/6.2
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 10, 2012 10:55:04 GMT -5
I really like the signing of the underrated David Ross.
He brings a good arm, some pop and a good OBP, and can play as much as needed for a good price.
I don't think his acquisition has much to do with the potential signing of Napoli.
I do think that this means the end of the Salty era, and it means that the more Ross plays, the tougher a time Lavarnway is having, and the less Ross plays, the better Lavarnway is doing. Either way, to me - it means Lavarnway will get a full chance to be the full-time catcher.
Hope the Sox can get something for Salty and aren't in a position where they need to non-tender him.
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Post by pbgallag on Nov 10, 2012 10:57:28 GMT -5
If Ross is so good defensively, why not just give him 500 AB, given that he is also well above-average offensively? It's hard to see why he's never gotten the chance to be a regular.
It shouldn't impact the pursuit Napoli, with 1B still wide open.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 10, 2012 10:58:05 GMT -5
Terrific backup catcher (offensively and defensively) signed for a two year deal at less than value - great start to the free agent signings.
I think this is a better indication that Salty is gone as they both hit MUCH better vs RHPs (Ross has consistent reverse splits:
Ross: 2012 vs LHP .712/ vs RHP .818 2011 vs LHP .613/ vs RHP .833 2010 vs LHP .886/ vs RHP .834 2009 vs LHP .648/ vs RHP .996
The funny thing is: Saltalamacchia lifetime OPS: .720 (.314 wOBA) Ross lifetime OPS: 768 (.331 wOBA)
I know OPS isn't everything, but it appears that Ross is an upgrade over Salty in every way (aside from HRs)
A Ross/Lavarnway platoon could be one of the better catching platoons in baseball next year. (accounting for the perennial poor state of catching in baseball)
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Post by kwilly on Nov 10, 2012 11:06:04 GMT -5
I like this signing as well, but am wondering why the Braves weren't interested at that price. A cursory search shows that McCann is the only catcher on their 40 man and the next nearest decent catching prospect is in AA.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 10, 2012 11:13:16 GMT -5
I like this signing as well, but am wondering why the Braves weren't interested at that price. A cursory search shows that McCann is the only catcher on their 40 man and the next nearest decent catching prospect is in AA. That's a good question. Best answers i can figure is that he either really likes Tuck (the signings came close together, the Red Sox were his most aggressive bidder (This was a quick signing for a backup catcher) or he was offered more playing time than Atlanta was willing to give him (likely). Per Ken Rosenthal: Ross will be "more than a backup but not a starter" for the Red Sox, according to one source So maybe he was promised a 40-60% playing time split? (He was closer to 25% with the Braves)
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Post by patrmac04 on Nov 10, 2012 11:40:25 GMT -5
Love this move for the flexibility it gives the Sox. Here are the options I see.
1. Trade either salty or lava for another piece... I hope it is salty if they do trade
2. Platoon salty at first and catcher while lava develops in the minors.
3. Platoon lava and ross while lava develops and is mentored
I also see this as a move geared towards helping the pitching staff after a horrible year. How is ross at calling a game?
Sent from my SGH-T999 using proboards
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Post by jioh on Nov 10, 2012 12:04:25 GMT -5
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 10, 2012 13:26:22 GMT -5
Liked Baseball Analytics assessment that Ross will give Salty a break against tough lefty pitchers (Sabathia, Price, etc.), while gining Lavarnway a chance to develop.
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Post by mredsox89 on Nov 10, 2012 13:34:12 GMT -5
This signing not only helps the team for the next 2 years, but clearly gives them an opportunity to include Salty/Lavarnway in a bigger trade. Neither of them alone will get the Sox a major piece, but the ability to send one of them along with prospects should certainly help. There really aren't many + hitting catchers, and Lavarnway projects as an above hitting catcher, while Salty isn't necessarily, but provides that pop
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Post by buffs4444 on Nov 10, 2012 13:56:35 GMT -5
Terrific backup catcher (offensively and defensively) signed for a two year deal at less than value - great start to the free agent signings. I think this is a better indication that Salty is gone as they both hit MUCH better vs RHPs (Ross has consistent reverse splits: Ross: 2012 vs LHP .712/ vs RHP .818 2011 vs LHP .613/ vs RHP .833 2010 vs LHP .886/ vs RHP .834 2009 vs LHP .648/ vs RHP .996 The funny thing is: Saltalamacchia lifetime OPS: .720 (.314 wOBA) Ross lifetime OPS: 768 (.331 wOBA) I know OPS isn't everything, but it appears that Ross is an upgrade over Salty in every way (aside from HRs) A Ross/Lavarnway platoon could be one of the better catching platoons in baseball next year. (accounting for the perennial poor state of catching in baseball) Agree with (and enjoyed the read of) everything in the post except "signed at less than value". I'm not sure there's a backup in the league that comes close to what Ross will make per year. Seems like a strong indication they're pretty far along a path that will land a catcher (most likely Salty) somewhere else. ch-ch-ch-changes.....
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Post by buffs4444 on Nov 10, 2012 14:04:36 GMT -5
Didn't want to have a ton of quotes in one reply, so adding this from Law's rundown:
He had me at "control the running game" and "40 percent CS%"......
Welcome (back) to Boston David Ross!!
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 10, 2012 14:09:37 GMT -5
Liked Baseball Analytics assessment that Ross will give Salty a break against tough lefty pitchers (Sabathia, Price, etc.), while gining Lavarnway a chance to develop. My opinion is also to trade Saltalamacchia. There's no need for "Lavarnaway to work out the kinks". He simply needs to play, just as Reddick simply needed to play. The team's unwillingness to let their young guys do that, play it out by getting PAs under their belts and learning the pitchers in the majors, has been a glaring weakness over the last few years. The analyst also contradicts himself with this piece of information: .295/.382/.511That's Lavarnaway's line in AAA over the last two years. There is absolutely nothing left for him to "work out" offensively in Pawtucket. The small sample size at the end of last year is just that - a small sample size. As for his defensive chops, he can go to finishing school with Ross as the tutor. Ross has a great reputation with young players. Take advantage of that. Once again, this is a golden opportunity to leverage those greatly lowered expectations. There's no rational reason, either for his benefit or the team's, to send Lavarnaway back down. If the FO is wise to this, they'll engineer a trade. Edit: I'm not done venting.... I'll lay money down right now that if the team gives him the playing time he'll be much more valuable offensively than Saltalamacchia. He can hit home runs at half the rate and still bring more to the table because of his discipline. It's that simple.
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Post by terriblehondo on Nov 10, 2012 14:21:42 GMT -5
I do not give a crap about the hitting comparisons. I want Ross to catch at least 100 games and handle the pitching staff and the running game. The pitching should be instantly better with him behind the plate.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 10, 2012 14:48:41 GMT -5
In the end the team will trade whichever catcher brings back the best return.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 10, 2012 14:59:03 GMT -5
Disagree about the 100 games. Ross is 35 years old for one thing. and as decent a hitter as he is, he'd be exposed with that much playing time. Duties will need to be split more evenly than that, and even skewed towards the primary catcher. He may be "more than a backup" but I don't see him as the first string catcher either.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 10, 2012 15:07:01 GMT -5
As I said on Twitter, I really disagree with the Baseball Analytics assessment, also proffered elsewhere, that Lavarnway will go to Triple-A (although that wasn't the impetus for that tweet at the time).
To be frank, he could stand to work out kinks. If you look at his numbers, he got on base relatively consistently all year, and hit for decent average, but his power was lacking. His overall numbers are bolstered by a June in which he slugged .667, hit 10 of his 22 AAA doubles/4 of his 8 home runs, and was our Player of the Month (to be more precise, his hot period was something like 5/22 through 7/1). In shortening his swing, he lost his power, and I think trying to then get the power back is what threw him out of whack at the end of the year.
Now, that said, I'm not sure those are "Triple-A" kinks. Major Leaguers work on that kind of thing all the time, and I think he's also at the Iglesias point where sending him back to Pawtucket isn't really productive - either use him or trade him to someone who will.
I'll echo what some on Twitter have said: I'm not sure a Lavarnway/Ross catching combo makes a lot of sense, or at least as much sense as a Salty/Ross platoon does. I don't know how that means things will shake down, but that appears to be the situation at present.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 10, 2012 15:44:20 GMT -5
Another note: as much as Cherington got a rep for being deliberate, jumping on this one early gives the Sox lots of options.
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