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Post by bluechip on Jan 4, 2013 22:50:57 GMT -5
Can I get your thought process behind this potential move, because I've seen it on another message board as well? Why would you move a potential average to slightly above average 3B to the lowest defensive position on the diamond... especially a player that doesn't look to have the power for 3B, let alone 1B? Wouldn't he be more valuable as a first division 3B or a average corner OF? Let me understand the Cecchini to 1B argument... Sure. Not sure Garin, if he stays with the organization, is going to have enough power to work his way past Middlebrooks. Him being able to play both corners may allow him to have a bigger impact with US. And the other thing is we have no viable positional players coming up through the pipeline I want to play everyday at 1st base (not sold on Shaw) at this moment. I like his approach and he may have a better chance to help us if he is able to play several positions. Is he the usual 1st baseman type? No. But he can be a valuable player for us, but only (in my thinking) if he can help us in several positions. I really like Middlebrooks, but Middlebrooks has other questions (like how much he will get on base and how much he strikes out). This organization should keep Garin at third, at least for the time being.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jan 5, 2013 7:16:40 GMT -5
Sure. Not sure Garin, if he stays with the organization, is going to have enough power to work his way past Middlebrooks. Him being able to play both corners may allow him to have a bigger impact with US. And the other thing is we have no viable positional players coming up through the pipeline I want to play everyday at 1st base (not sold on Shaw) at this moment. I like his approach and he may have a better chance to help us if he is able to play several positions. Is he the usual 1st baseman type? No. But he can be a valuable player for us, but only (in my thinking) if he can help us in several positions. I really like Middlebrooks, but Middlebrooks has other questions (like how much he will get on base and how much he strikes out). This organization should keep Garin at third, at least for the time being. I have NOT advocated moving Garin OFF of 3rd base!! I'd like him to be able to handle 1st base ALSO to make him more versatile
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 5, 2013 13:02:02 GMT -5
I have NOT advocated moving Garin OFF of 3rd base!! I'd like him to be able to handle 1st base ALSO to make him more versatile That's not much versatility. What third baseman CAN'T play first, really? There's really no need to worry about Cecchini's position at this point anyway. He's got a lot more to accomplish as a hitter before that becomes relevant.
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Post by bluechip on Jan 5, 2013 13:23:04 GMT -5
I have NOT advocated moving Garin OFF of 3rd base!! I'd like him to be able to handle 1st base ALSO to make him more versatile That's not much versatility. What third baseman CAN'T play first, really? First is at the end of the defensive spectrum. Teams really do not spend a ton of time teaching it. Look at how often guys move from other positions to first. Often the move first and become great defensive players (eg Youk, Erstad).
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jan 5, 2013 13:59:56 GMT -5
That's not much versatility. What third baseman CAN'T play first, really? First is at the end of the defensive spectrum. Teams really do not spend a ton of time teaching it. Look at how often guys move from other positions to first. Often the move first and become great defensive players (eg Youk, Erstad). Those days of Dick "Dr Strange Glove" Stuart manning first are LONG gone. Teams do put quite a bit of effort into making sure who ever plays there is more than competent. You may have become "use too" Gonzo or Youk playing 1st and not appreciating it. Teams now understand how many runs can be saved by having someone over there do an above average job. No longer is it just a place to stash a guy who can hit and pray he doesn't hurt the infield. Napoli, if he plays almost exclusively there, will eventually be average. Mauro not being even average is a totally last ditch alternative.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jan 6, 2013 15:57:14 GMT -5
We'd be better off trying him out at 2B and the OF than 1B if we are looking to add versatility. Now isn't the time for that anyway though. Keep him at 3B for this year at least.
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Post by bluechip on Jan 6, 2013 17:04:03 GMT -5
First is at the end of the defensive spectrum. Teams really do not spend a ton of time teaching it. Look at how often guys move from other positions to first. Often the move first and become great defensive players (eg Youk, Erstad). Those days of Dick "Dr Strange Glove" Stuart manning first are LONG gone. Teams do put quite a bit of effort into making sure who ever plays there is more than competent. You may have become "use too" Gonzo or Youk playing 1st and not appreciating it. Teams now understand how many runs can be saved by having someone over there do an above average job. No longer is it just a place to stash a guy who can hit and pray he doesn't hurt the infield. Napoli, if he plays almost exclusively there, will eventually be average. Mauro not being even average is a totally last ditch alternative. They do put emphasis on defense at first. Nevertheless, defense at first can be learned in a short period of time. That is my point.
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Post by jdb on Jan 6, 2013 19:24:51 GMT -5
We'd be better off trying him out at 2B and the OF than 1B if we are looking to add versatility. Now isn't the time for that anyway though. Keep him at 3B for this year at least. Agree. It's fun to discuss but he s at third for the next few saosons but athletic enough to handle many positions. At the plate i think he could be an Alex Gordon type.
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Post by jdb on Mar 13, 2013 18:40:49 GMT -5
Sounds like he had a really good off season. fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/03/13/red-sox-minor-league-notes-intriguing-double-a-rotation-garin-cecchinis-growth/– Third baseman Garin Cecchini, after a rigorous offseason training regimen, is huge this spring. He is approximately 6-foot-3 and 215 pounds, according to a team official. What that means for the 2010 fourth-round pick on the field remains to be seen, but if the 21-year-old adds power to an impressive plate approach, he could emerge as one of the top few prospects in the team’s system. Cecchini hit .305 with a .394 OBP, .433 slugging mark and .827 OPS along with 51 steals (in 57 attempts) but with just four homers in Single-A Greenville last year. Still, talent evaluators who saw Greenville raved about the maturity of Cecchini’s plate discipline and approach, suggesting that power was likely to come for him down the road.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2013 19:41:03 GMT -5
if cecchini continues to develop and becomes MLB ready, what happens to Middlebrooks? do either cecchini or wmb switch positions, does either one of the get traded, or do the k's and lack of walks catch up to wmb and he never comes out of the sophomore slump, therefore cecchini taking his job? ideally, because wmb has a strong arm for a 3b, i think that cecchini with his speed could move to left. also, i think that wmb cuts down on the k's and increases the walks and becomes and a great 3b for years to come.
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Post by jmei on Mar 13, 2013 20:04:00 GMT -5
Cecchini is at least two years away from being in the major league discussion. It is way too early for that kind of discussion.
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Post by soxcentral on Mar 13, 2013 20:35:22 GMT -5
First time I read that my initial thought was that his training made him not just heavier but taller too. If so, sign me up for whatever he did this winter.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Mar 13, 2013 20:55:39 GMT -5
Well, I'm not sure what he was last year, but it's not unusual for a 20 year-old to add an inch to his height ...
I've sort of forgotten about Garin a little bit this spring, but I'm pretty optimistic for a breakout season from him this year. All the elements are there.
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brisox
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Post by brisox on Mar 17, 2013 7:12:21 GMT -5
I don't think we should ever move a prospect around based on how he will help our MLB team, but rather where he is most valuable. Quality 3B power hitters are not easy to come by these days, Ask the Yankees. Also our 3B depth is not very good right now and if he push himself up the ranks he will be a valuable protection to WMB, and it Will stays healthy he will net us some needed talent as a 3B prospect. I feel the same about Xander, keep him at SS till he proves he can not play it at advanced levels.
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Post by njsox on Mar 27, 2013 18:22:10 GMT -5
Sounds like he had a really good off season. fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/03/13/red-sox-minor-league-notes-intriguing-double-a-rotation-garin-cecchinis-growth/– Third baseman Garin Cecchini, after a rigorous offseason training regimen, is huge this spring. He is approximately 6-foot-3 and 215 pounds, according to a team official. What that means for the 2010 fourth-round pick on the field remains to be seen, but if the 21-year-old adds power to an impressive plate approach, he could emerge as one of the top few prospects in the team’s system. Cecchini hit .305 with a .394 OBP, .433 slugging mark and .827 OPS along with 51 steals (in 57 attempts) but with just four homers in Single-A Greenville last year. Still, talent evaluators who saw Greenville raved about the maturity of Cecchini’s plate discipline and approach, suggesting that power was likely to come for him down the road. I hadn't seen this post yet but watching the video of Marerro batting Cecchini kept stepping into the focus of the camera and he looked huge. Can't wait to see him play this year.
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Post by raftsox on Mar 28, 2013 6:54:30 GMT -5
Sounds like he had a really good off season. fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/03/13/red-sox-minor-league-notes-intriguing-double-a-rotation-garin-cecchinis-growth/– Third baseman Garin Cecchini, after a rigorous offseason training regimen, is huge this spring. He is approximately 6-foot-3 and 215 pounds, according to a team official. What that means for the 2010 fourth-round pick on the field remains to be seen, but if the 21-year-old adds power to an impressive plate approach, he could emerge as one of the top few prospects in the team’s system. Cecchini hit .305 with a .394 OBP, .433 slugging mark and .827 OPS along with 51 steals (in 57 attempts) but with just four homers in Single-A Greenville last year. Still, talent evaluators who saw Greenville raved about the maturity of Cecchini’s plate discipline and approach, suggesting that power was likely to come for him down the road. I hadn't seen this post yet but watching the video of Marerro batting Cecchini kept stepping into the focus of the camera and he looked huge. Can't wait to see him play this year. This is one of those things that bugs me about spring training. 215lbs isn't even big for someone 6'3", let along huge. It's basically a lean athlete. Sorry for the rant, but hearing fat reporters talk about who's "in shape" and hyoodge is annoying. I prefer to let the results of the season shape my opinion rather than the superficial aspect of their physical characteristics because that really doesn't play much of a role.
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Post by elguapo on Mar 28, 2013 8:31:42 GMT -5
I interpreted 'huge' as jacked rather than blubberous. Assuming that's the case, to be in shape and 6'3" 215 is indeed indicative of significant muscle mass.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Mar 28, 2013 8:43:46 GMT -5
I'm curious to see how Cecchini develops. Wasn't sure he had the power for a corner position on a playoff team. I know it's the last tool to develop. But, a little muscle doesn't hurt. Plus, he bats lefthanded. Will compliment WMB and Xander if they pan out as we hope.
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Post by feez732 on Mar 28, 2013 9:35:35 GMT -5
I interpreted 'huge' as jacked rather than blubberous. Assuming that's the case, to be in shape and 6'3" 215 is indeed indicative of significant muscle mass. Agreed. Even at that height, you can't get much bigger than 215 and remain even relatively lean.
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Post by raftsox on Mar 28, 2013 9:38:32 GMT -5
I interpreted 'huge' as jacked rather than blubberous. Assuming that's the case, to be in shape and 6'3" 215 is indeed indicative of significant muscle mass. I think everyone interprets "huge" as jacked rather than blubberous. However, at 6'3", 215lbs. is on the small side for an athlete. The majority of people are skewed by their perception of normal people. Professional athletes aren't normal people. Most people would consider a cross-fitter to carry significant muscle mass, but in reality they're generally small and lean when compared to other dedicated strength trainers. They only appear large when compared to a normal yokel. Basically, we're arguing from different viewpoints here.
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Post by njsox on Mar 28, 2013 12:42:27 GMT -5
I interpreted 'huge' as jacked rather than blubberous. Assuming that's the case, to be in shape and 6'3" 215 is indeed indicative of significant muscle mass. Maybe saying "huge" was a bit of hyperbole on my part. I simply think he looked a legit 6'3" and was well filled out which makes for a pretty big man. At 21 years old that is very impressive. Tough to imagine that this kid stole 50+ bases last year.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 19, 2013 8:39:26 GMT -5
Time to revive this thread. Off to a good start, minus some CS, but its A ball still. He's only 22 and injuries slowed him early, but I expected him in AA this year. I hope he gets a good number of AA at bats. No need to force it, I know. And it's really not important big picture. Per my own rules, its difficult to get excited about a guy until AA production has been seen.
Portland is pretty stacked with the revitalization of Almanzar so not much room unless one of those guys is ready to move up.
To be clear, I'm not talking now. This shouldn't be considered until at least June.
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Post by jdb on Apr 19, 2013 9:57:37 GMT -5
I remember asking why he didnt get called to High A last season and was told coming off his injury the FO wanted him to only deal with one coaching staff last year. Like you said I think they could be more aggresive with him this season. Good to see a little power so far this year too and I think he could make a huge jump in the prospect rankings across the minors.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Apr 24, 2013 17:17:44 GMT -5
After last nights game Cecchini is now hitting a robust .328/.414/.525. He is making good contact (15.7% Ks), taking walks (12.9%), and hitting for power (.197 ISOP). He has 7 stolen bases (including is last four attempts - admittedly against a single opponent that hasn't been able to throw out anyone). From an offensive perspective, he is doing everything we could possibly have hoped he would do to this point.
I continue to be amazed with Cecchini's impressive consistency. He hit .298/.398/.500 in Lowell. He hit .305/.394/.433 in Greenville. He by all accounts has an impressive work ethic, tremendous makeup, and is a gifted athlete. I'm very interested to see if the Red Sox start to be more aggressive with him. He has gone one-level per year, but is still at an age-appropriate level.
My question is this: If Cecchini continues to hit, do the Red Sox move him up to Portland this year or will they continue to be relatively conservative with his advancement? If you think he gets promoted, when do you think it will be? Also, what are Garin's biggest development needs? What are you looking to see from him as the year goes on?
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Post by wskeleton76 on Apr 24, 2013 18:52:56 GMT -5
I expect him to be called up by mid season if he keeps hitting.
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