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Post by jmei on Jul 5, 2016 14:50:02 GMT -5
Trey Ball is in his third full season of being a bad pitcher, both statistically and scouting-wise. With every passing day, it becomes harder to argue that he's just raw and needs more development time.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 5, 2016 15:28:00 GMT -5
There's not much interesting about that. It has been said seriously and in jest since his first professional start.
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Trey Ball
Jul 6, 2016 0:26:38 GMT -5
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Post by telson13 on Jul 6, 2016 0:26:38 GMT -5
Trey Ball is in his third full season of being a bad pitcher, both statistically and scouting-wise. With every passing day, it becomes harder to argue that he's just raw and needs more development time. Well, his GB rate is up, and his BAA is down substantially; his BABIP is also lower (which, along with OPS against, follows a 3-yr downward trend). Odds are he's not ever "good," but he's just turning 22 in high A. So he's got 2 years to make MLB age-appropriately, and if he continues improving as he has so far, he may produce at least some value.
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Post by tonyc on Jul 6, 2016 10:21:28 GMT -5
Thanks Telson for a statistical backing for what I personally felt was a rare misstatement by Jmei-not an incorrect one, but overly shaded toward the negative. It's still a bit early to dismiss the possibility of backend starter if he continues to make adjustments. And regarding his conversion to hitting, just look at how the back-end options have vanished this year. While I've wondered if there's more possibility of allowing two way prospects to continue some dual play, Trey has been so dicey that I wouldn't mess with that.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Jul 6, 2016 10:35:02 GMT -5
Having this been his second go-round with Salem, there's no way he doesn't go to Portland next year. A lot will be told at that point whether he can or cannot be successful. Sink or swim if you will.
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Trey Ball
Jul 7, 2016 17:43:33 GMT -5
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Post by dnfl333 on Jul 7, 2016 17:43:33 GMT -5
Perfect prospect to trade for an established bullpen arm?
Let another team wait him out
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Trey Ball
Jul 7, 2016 18:19:05 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by kyla13 on Jul 7, 2016 18:19:05 GMT -5
Perfect prospect to trade for an established bullpen arm? Let another team wait him out He's nowhere near gonna get you an established BP guy that you would want on the Sox. As a throw-in, yeah he's your guy.
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Trey Ball
Jul 7, 2016 22:26:24 GMT -5
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Post by telson13 on Jul 7, 2016 22:26:24 GMT -5
Perfect prospect to trade for an established bullpen arm? Let another team wait him out He's nowhere near gonna get you an established BP guy that you would want on the Sox. As a throw-in, yeah he's your guy. Yeah, probably not unless some team *really* likes him. He looks destined for the 'pen himself. Maybe a small-market team with a 7th-inning guy who's arb-eligible but has a wart or two (walks, funky delivery, etc.) would take Ball and a similarly-rated prospect as a pair. Wilkerson and Rijo got Aaron Hill, so that's not entirely unreasonable. Teams not in it will often look for upside, and Ball is only 22, probably makes AA this summer, and is a lefty.
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Trey Ball
Jul 7, 2016 22:30:39 GMT -5
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Post by telson13 on Jul 7, 2016 22:30:39 GMT -5
Thanks Telson for a statistical backing for what I personally felt was a rare misstatement by Jmei-not an incorrect one, but overly shaded toward the negative. It's still a bit early to dismiss the possibility of backend starter if he continues to make adjustments. And regarding his conversion to hitting, just look at how the back-end options have vanished this year. While I've wondered if there's more possibility of allowing two way prospects to continue some dual play, Trey has been so dicey that I wouldn't mess with that. Yeah, it's becoming increasingly apparent that back-end starters, even true #5s, have significant value, particularly when they're young. FA cost for those guys is ridiculous unless you get a Fister on a pillow contract, and he pitches like a 3/4 for you. But Ian Kennedy looked like a 4/5, and got 5/70. He's actually been better than a 5, but that contract...uggh.
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Post by klostrophobic on Jul 8, 2016 1:31:37 GMT -5
Perfect prospect to trade for an established bullpen arm? Let another team wait him out He can easily bring in Julian Tavarez right now. Just need someone to sign Julian Tavarez first. I have hope.
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,882
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 15, 2016 22:54:49 GMT -5
Trey Ball is in his third full season of being a bad pitcher, both statistically and scouting-wise. With every passing day, it becomes harder to argue that he's just raw and needs more development time. I happen to have the BA rankings of every Sox prospect who had a top-200-slot bonus, going back to the 2003 draft class. Ball has gone 10, 15, 17. I thought I' take a look at everyone else who declined over his first three years. Do they ever turn it around? Craig Hansen: 4, 9, 18 Anthony Ranaudo: 2, 4, 14, 11, 16 Kolbrin Vitek: 9, 19, depth chart, dc Sean Coyle: 13, 14, 24, 30, 17, 28 Wil Middlebrooks: 14, 18, 19, 11, 1 Kris Johnson: 10, 13, 16, dc, not on depth chart ("x") Abe Alvarez: 7, 10, 26, dc, x Bryce Cox: 8, 30, dc, x Others who debuted out of the top 10: Tzu-Wei Lin, Mike Rozier, Jason Place, Madison Younginer, Peter Hissey, Mickey Hall, Beau Vaughan When Middlebrooks is the only good comp, it's not encouraging. I'd seriously think about having him try hitting next year, by having him DH between starts, maybe at Greenville.
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wbcd
Rookie
Posts: 33
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Post by wbcd on Jul 16, 2016 19:55:26 GMT -5
One thing Brian Bannister said about Drew Pomeranz surely applies here:
"If Pomeranz is so good, why did it take this long for him to start delivering on his potential at age 27 in his sixth season?
Bannister points to his 6-foot-6 frame.
"You see a lot of the taller lefties -- I mean, Randy Johnson didn't have a league-average walk rate until he was 29 years old," Bannister said. "Andrew Miller is now more in his sweet spot command-wise. So you see these tall lefties peaking later, either in their 20s or early 30s. Randy had that run of Cy Young Awards in his 30s. They're a different animal. And so some of these guys do admittedly peak later than pitchers with different body types.""
Attribution: www.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/john-tomase/2016/07/16/concerned-about-drew-pomeranzs-red-flags-brian
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Post by digit on Jul 16, 2016 20:57:44 GMT -5
The same can be said of Henry Owens, but, you know, I feel like the Red Sox's patience with having -two- tall lefties trying to figure out their stuff is going to be fairly low with Dombrowski.
I'm just hoping Dombrowski's experience trading Randy Johnson will help give him -some- patience for these kind of guys.
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Trey Ball
Jul 16, 2016 21:13:32 GMT -5
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Post by larrycook on Jul 16, 2016 21:13:32 GMT -5
I have seen ball pitch and I think he had the stuff to be successful in the major leagues.
However he lacks command and control. The question is if he masters them.
I think dombrowski needs to give him more time to develop.
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fenwayfaithful
Rookie
A prospect is fun to watch, but trading him for a sure thing in the Majors is never a losing deal.
Posts: 114
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Post by fenwayfaithful on Jul 17, 2016 22:57:46 GMT -5
I haven't got to see Ball pitch this year but this is why i hate drafting pitchers in the top 10. i know Mark Appeal still hasn't produced at number one and Kris Bryant is amazing and he was the 2nd pick. i just picked up Tim Anderson SS from white sox in my fantasy league and he was also from this 2013 draft. Amazing our 7th pick isn't even in AA yet. Why in the world do you select a guy who is still in HS with a top 10 pick who they didn't know if he was going to be a P or position player is beyond me. Same number we got Benintendi with last year and he might be in the majors beginning of next year. Really hope Groome changes our recent luck with our drafted pitchers.
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Trey Ball
Jul 17, 2016 23:07:39 GMT -5
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Post by larrycook on Jul 17, 2016 23:07:39 GMT -5
I haven't got to see Ball pitch this year but this is why i hate drafting pitchers in the top 10. i know Mark Appeal still hasn't produced at number one and Kris Bryant is amazing and he was the 2nd pick. i just picked up Tim Anderson SS from white sox in my fantasy league and he was also from this 2013 draft. Amazing our 7th pick isn't even in AA yet. Why in the world do you select a guy who is still in HS with a top 10 pick who they didn't know if he was going to be a P or position player is beyond me. Same number we got Benintendi with last year and he might be in the majors beginning of next year. Really hope Groome changes our recent luck with our drafted pitchers. You draft ball at #7 knowing he does not have a lot of pitching experience and is really raw and will need extea time to develop because his stuff projects to be very good once he puts the pieces together. Right now he is not repeating his delivered r and his mechanics are a work in progress. However, if he ever gets it figured out, he has the stuff to be a major league pitcher.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 18, 2016 11:28:44 GMT -5
Right now he is not repeating his delivered r and his mechanics are a work in progress. However, if he ever gets it figured out, he has the stuff to be a major league pitcher. I disagree. His finish is a tad on the rigid side I guess, but looking at this video on the previous page he seems to really be repeating it with ease - particularly his lower half. forum.soxprospects.com/post/202493I'll admit that I haven't seen him live myself - all I know is from reports we've gotten and from video posted. But the delivery and mechanics seem easy and generally good.
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wbcd
Rookie
Posts: 33
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Post by wbcd on Jul 22, 2016 11:21:39 GMT -5
I don't know anything about this blog author, but he claims to have the thoughts below from Joe Vasile, the Broadcasting and Media Relations Assistant for the Salem Red Sox: "Tall, hard-throwing lefty who could even ramp up the velocity higher than the 95 he touches once his body fills out. His fastball command comes and goes on a dime, his changeup has good potential but is not quite consistently there yet, he has a big, looping, slow curve, and a slider that he picked up last year that has at times this year been his best friend and his worst enemy. Trey's problem is simple - he walks too many batters and doesn't strike out enough. He was getting good bounces earlier in the season, but now not so much. These are his combined numbers in his last three starts: 10 IP, 17 H, 14 R, 12 ER, 3 HBP, 16 BB, 10 K, 3 WP. That was preceded by this three start stretch in June: 19.1 IP, 15 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 1 HBP, 8 BB, 13 K, 2 WP. There are days where he dominates and days where he looks lost, a lot of it is a mental game for him. At the end of the day, the walks need to tick down and the strikeouts need to tick up, which should happen if and when he finally figures it all out. A team's judgement of his trade value is going to come from when their scout saw him." (source: www.minorleagueball.com/2016/7/22/12248044/which-top-prospects-may-be-dealt-at-the-trade-deadline)6'6" LH pitchers with probably less than 400 innings pitched in his entire career are going to take a good bit of time to figure things out. I just hope he's with the Red Sox when he does.
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Post by brendan98 on Jun 23, 2017 13:53:26 GMT -5
With all of the 2 way players taken in the 1st round of this years draft, I started thinking of Trey Ball, and wonder if the time isn’t coming to try him as a position player (if I remember right, his scouting reports from the 2013 draft had him as a possible 1st rounder as a pitcher or outfielder).
I’d imagine a switch wouldn’t come in the middle of the season, so if this were to happen it would probably be after the season, maybe with Fall instructs and/or winter ball. The big question I guess, is has Ball shown anything in his development to suggest that the Sox should keep him in a pitching role? Even if the Sox could get some future value including Ball in a trade, I’d probably say leave him as a pitcher, but I don’t think he’s shown anything that might cause another team to want him, so maybe trying him in the outfield is worth a try.
Thoughts?
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 23, 2017 14:54:37 GMT -5
With all of the 2 way players taken in the 1st round of this years draft, I started thinking of Trey Ball, and wonder if the time isn’t coming to try him as a position player (if I remember right, his scouting reports from the 2013 draft had him as a possible 1st rounder as a pitcher or outfielder). I’d imagine a switch wouldn’t come in the middle of the season, so if this were to happen it would probably be after the season, maybe with Fall instructs and/or winter ball. The big question I guess, is has Ball shown anything in his development to suggest that the Sox should keep him in a pitching role? Even if the Sox could get some future value including Ball in a trade, I’d probably say leave him as a pitcher, but I don’t think he’s shown anything that might cause another team to want him, so maybe trying him in the outfield is worth a try. Thoughts? He'll go to the bullpen before he goes to the outfield.
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Post by ryan24 on Jun 25, 2017 4:41:32 GMT -5
With all of the 2 way players taken in the 1st round of this years draft, I started thinking of Trey Ball, and wonder if the time isn’t coming to try him as a position player (if I remember right, his scouting reports from the 2013 draft had him as a possible 1st rounder as a pitcher or outfielder). I’d imagine a switch wouldn’t come in the middle of the season, so if this were to happen it would probably be after the season, maybe with Fall instructs and/or winter ball. The big question I guess, is has Ball shown anything in his development to suggest that the Sox should keep him in a pitching role? Even if the Sox could get some future value including Ball in a trade, I’d probably say leave him as a pitcher, but I don’t think he’s shown anything that might cause another team to want him, so maybe trying him in the outfield is worth a try. Thoughts? He'll go to the bullpen before he goes to the outfield. To join 25 other guys we have that caused us to trade moncada and kopech for a starter. It is Sales and I think it is a good trade. BUT, if some of these pitchers we drafted had worked out, would we have pursued sales.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 25, 2017 9:57:18 GMT -5
He'll go to the bullpen before he goes to the outfield. To join 25 other guys we have that caused us to trade moncada and kopech for a starter. It is Sales and I think it is a good trade. BUT, if some of these pitchers we drafted had worked out, would we have pursued sales. Yes.
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Smittyw
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Post by Smittyw on Jun 25, 2017 10:48:14 GMT -5
I would love to peek in to the alternate universe where "Nah, we don't need Chris Sale - we have Trey Ball" is a thing someone would say.
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Deleted
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Trey Ball
Feb 2, 2018 8:33:53 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 8:33:53 GMT -5
Maybe it's time to move Trey Ball to the Outfield or teach him the knuckleball to get some of those first-round value back. Ball hit .320 with 9 home runs and 28 RBIs in a senior season. And some scouting reports say that you use a knuckleball in high school that was effective.He was committed the playing for the University of Texas so they must have saw some value in him Red Sox sure did they paid him a signing bonus of 2.75 million dollars. He's 6ft 6in 190lb bats left. I'm not saying he has a swing like Bryce Harper or Rafael Devers but at what point do the Sox make a move with him.
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Post by manfred on Feb 2, 2018 12:08:09 GMT -5
I’ve never seen him pitch, and his numbers are obviously disappointing, but.... he came to the Sox young and raw. He is still only 23, a 6’6” lefty. He still has multiple pitches with high upside. I think the only option is patience. Kid hasn’t hit in years, and last did it in high school. It seems far more likely he ends up servicable relief pitcher than outfield prospect.
Anyway, he is 23, in AA, has a solid arm and body. There is a ton of work to do, but he has the parts to work on.
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