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Post by telson13 on Jun 5, 2015 0:31:59 GMT -5
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,823
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jun 5, 2015 7:16:39 GMT -5
Love to get a chance to see him in Fort Myers this summer. I was surprised somewhat when they brought up a 17 year old kid last year at mid-season from the DL to the GCL. I think is name is Devers. Not sure how often they promoted from one to the other in past seasons. Basabe was another. Would be interesting.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 5, 2015 7:39:21 GMT -5
In addition to on the field readiness and visa issues, the other thing to consider is if they think he's ready from an off the field perspective. It would be nice too get eyes on him later this summer, though.
As was pointed out, Devers was stateside for spring training. Espinoza was not. I don't remember about Basabe. It will certainly be interesting to watch.
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Post by jmei on Jun 5, 2015 7:40:53 GMT -5
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 5, 2015 7:47:24 GMT -5
Any ideas where Badler is getting his info that he's been hitting 97? Agent? Sox? Or since he's the international amateur guy, does he have guys in the DR.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 5, 2015 7:51:50 GMT -5
From that article: Get ready for like six years of Pedro Martinez comps everyone.
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Post by stevedillard on Jun 5, 2015 7:52:16 GMT -5
Any ideas where Badler is getting his info that he's been hitting 97? Agent? Sox? Or since he's the international amateur guy, does he have guys in the DR. That was my question, too, and I suspect this is the quid pro quo to the agent in return for getting info on who the next July 2 group will be. Take it with a grain of salt.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 5, 2015 8:05:44 GMT -5
From that article: Get ready for like six years of Pedro Martinez comps everyone. I heard Espinoza's fingers are 8 inches long.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jun 5, 2015 9:27:11 GMT -5
From that article: Get ready for like six years of Pedro Martinez comps everyone. Six posts. When this thread got started, I wondered how many posts it would take before "Pedro Martinez" was typed ... six is actually a couple more than I thought. A small-ish Red Sox pitcher from Latin America with long fingers, a blazing fastball, and a feel for pitching? Yeah, it's inevitable that Pedro will be mentioned again and again.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jun 5, 2015 9:49:32 GMT -5
Any ideas where Badler is getting his info that he's been hitting 97? Agent? Sox? Or since he's the international amateur guy, does he have guys in the DR. That was my question, too, and I suspect this is the quid pro quo to the agent in return for getting info on who the next July 2 group will be. Take it with a grain of salt. It's not like him being up to 97 is news. McDaniels had him up to 97 right after he signed. And given that Speir wrote almost exactly the same thing it's most probably coming from within the organization. Not every agent is trying to put bs out there.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,700
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Post by nomar on Jun 5, 2015 10:07:54 GMT -5
I think it's insane that someone with his lack of size could sit mid 90s at 17 years old.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 5, 2015 11:24:50 GMT -5
I think it's insane that someone with his lack of size could sit mid 90s at 17 years old. It's a natural reaction to underestimate what's called intra-species variability for both plants and animals. Turns out the gene pool for most organisms is deep and wide. Here's one example. In forest stands here in the West, trees that are of the same species will react quite differently to drought stress and insect predation. Some try to grow their way through it, other genotypes place their resource bets into root development after spring growth, with subsequent defoliation. That probably reflects what has been a lot of evolutionary pressure due to climatic variability since the end of the last glaciation, 50,000 years ago. It's no different for animals, with wide variations in size, shape, musculature, lung capacity, and on and on... One of my earliest baseball memories, when I was barely in grade school, was of this guy from the great White Sox team of the late 50s. By modern standards, he wouldn't have been let near a starting rotation. That would have been a mistake. The issue for Espinoza will revolve around his durability, and his ability to keep his stuff deep into games. But there's no question that even compact pitchers can carry the water if they've got the stuff.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jun 5, 2015 11:29:06 GMT -5
From that article: Get ready for like six years of Pedro Martinez comps everyone. Six posts. When this thread got started, I wondered how many posts it would take before "Pedro Martinez" was typed ... six is actually a couple more than I thought. A small-ish Red Sox pitcher from Latin America with long fingers, a blazing fastball, and a feel for pitching? Yeah, it's inevitable that Pedro will be mentioned again and again. We need a new Pedro in our system since we traded our last one to Arizona.
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Post by ramireja on Jun 5, 2015 11:41:10 GMT -5
From that article: Get ready for like six years of Pedro Martinez comps everyone. Six posts. When this thread got started, I wondered how many posts it would take before "Pedro Martinez" was typed ... six is actually a couple more than I thought. A small-ish Red Sox pitcher from Latin America with long fingers, a blazing fastball, and a feel for pitching? Yeah, it's inevitable that Pedro will be mentioned again and again. I mean, can you tell which one is which?
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Post by Smittyw on Jun 5, 2015 11:43:53 GMT -5
From that article: Get ready for like six years of Pedro Martinez comps everyone. He won't be getting Pedro comps in six years if he's no good, so I hope so.
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Post by trotnixonforever on Jun 5, 2015 12:25:57 GMT -5
From that article: Get ready for like six years of Pedro Martinez comps everyone. This. Every diminutive hard throwing hispanic pitcher = Pedro. I remember watching a Mets spring training game from a couple years ago and the announcers said that "some people" were saying Rafael Montero was being compared to Pedro. Espinoza sounds pretty exciting but lets not be the ones making lazy racial comps. Leave that to braindead announcers of other clubs.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Jun 5, 2015 12:34:29 GMT -5
I think it's insane that someone with his lack of size could sit mid 90s at 17 years old. there's no question that even compact pitchers can carry the water if they've got the stuff. I get such a kick out of the prejudices that so many people have against heavy players, thin players, short players and too tall players. There are a whole bunch of players in the Hall of Fame who would be considered short by today's standards and some of them threw the ball pretty good. Others hit it pretty good. Randy Johnson could barely hit the side of a barn with a pitch when he first started. He scared the crap out of batters. Luis Tiant was chubby and he threw more complete games than any of the entire pitching staffs in the major leagues today. A major reason why baseball became so popular was that almost anyone could play it, and with natural skills, exceptional players did not have to be muscle-bound, 6-6, etc. That still is the case.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 5, 2015 12:41:06 GMT -5
There are always exceptions with body types.
But I don't think you can compare pitchers of today to pitchers of 30+ years ago. There are a lot more pitchers today throwing 95 with ridiculous sliders, etc and a lot less Bob Stanley's with their 3.65 career K/9 throwing palm balls, whatever those were. Probably a bad example, since Stanley was huge.
And I'd really love to know what the average velocity was for those pitchers who used to throw both games of a double header 100 years ago. I bet it wasn't more than 80 for most of them.
That was probably a day when a lot of average joe's could have played baseball if they put the time in, but hell no to that suggestion today. It didn't pay much to be an average player back then, so probably a lot of the best players were off pursuing "real careers".
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,911
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 5, 2015 12:55:17 GMT -5
When I raved about his mechanics in the 6/1 game thread, jimed14 replied "He reminds me of.... no I won't say." I almost replied, "You don't have to." Let's remember that Pedro is also a genius. And I don't just mean the fact that, as in the joke, he literally does speak English better than Roger. His ability to know how to work hitters, and to understand their psyches, as well as his own, was certainly a big part of why he was, at his peak, the best pitcher of all time. Let's hope that Espinoza has half his smarts (relative to average). The big question right now is, what's Espinoza's nickname? Is it too much of a burden to call him "The Image," as in "spitting?" The thing is, "Anderson" is the single best shared name in film history. Right now you've got Wes Anderson and Paul Thomas Anderson, and as great as they both are, I'm not sure either was as good, at their peaks, as Lindsay ( If... and O Lucky Man!). Yeah, I know, nobody's gonna get that part of it but me.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 5, 2015 13:00:22 GMT -5
When I raved about his mechanics in the 6/1 game thread, jimed14 replied "He reminds me of.... no I won't say." I almost replied, "You don't have to." Let's remember that Pedro is also a genius. And I don't just mean the fact that, as in the joke, he literally does speak English better than Roger. His ability to know how to work hitters, and to understand their psyches, as well as his own, was certainly a big part of why he was, at his peak, the best pitcher of all time. Let's hope that Espinoza has half his smarts (relative to average). The big question right now is, what's Espinoza's nickname? Is it too much of a burden to call him "The Image," as in "spitting?" The thing is, "Anderson" is the single best shared name in film history. Right now you've got Wes Anderson and Paul Thomas Anderson, and as great as they both are, I'm not sure either was as good, at their peaks, as Lindsay ( If... and O Lucky Man!). Yeah, I know, nobody's gonna get that part of it but me. I remember a quote from Jim Kaat a couple of years ago. If you want to know how to pitch to a specific batter. Watch how Pedro Martinez does. He has the repertoire of pitches and will figure out which ones will work.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 5, 2015 15:54:55 GMT -5
Any ideas where Badler is getting his info that he's been hitting 97? Agent? Sox? Or since he's the international amateur guy, does he have guys in the DR. That was my question, too, and I suspect this is the quid pro quo to the agent in return for getting info on who the next July 2 group will be. Take it with a grain of salt. You've got to be kidding me. It's from the DSL. They play games. People bring radar guns. Enough with the conspiracy theorization.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 5, 2015 15:56:17 GMT -5
From that article: Get ready for like six years of Pedro Martinez comps everyone. I heard Espinoza's fingers are 8 inches long. That's what he tells the ladies. Really, it's more like five...
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Post by telson13 on Jun 5, 2015 16:03:02 GMT -5
From that article: Get ready for like six years of Pedro Martinez comps everyone. This. Every diminutive hard throwing hispanic pitcher = Pedro. I remember watching a Mets spring training game from a couple years ago and the announcers said that "some people" were saying Rafael Montero was being compared to Pedro. Espinoza sounds pretty exciting but lets not be the ones making lazy racial comps. Leave that to braindead announcers of other clubs. In defense, did you see the picture? Or the FB/CB/CH repertoire? Though Espinoza is Venezuelan, so you may be right about the racial comp. Comparing Montero to Pedro IS just flat-out stupid. There's a chasm of difference in pure stuff there big enough to fit Manhattan.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 5, 2015 16:57:49 GMT -5
Let's try to keep this focused on Espinoza
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Post by telson13 on Jun 6, 2015 0:43:17 GMT -5
Regardless of all-time historical context, the Sox have a 17-y/o who sits in the mid-90s and touches 97, with apparent extremely precocious pitchability and well-above average command for his peer group (and it sounds like above-average for even low-level full-season ball). A plus-plus (present 70 if one believes reports on his velocity) FB and age-advanced offspeed stuff with a simple, clean, low-effort delivery is very encouraging, and at 17 he still has three to six years before he hits the usual ages for peak velocity. He's also not done growing. Sounds like a true future ace package. He may never reach that ceiling, of course, but all of the raw material is already there. And what better organization to be in with his repertoire, size, and cerebral approach than one with Pedro Martinez available as a mentor. I just can't help but be *really* excited to see him get a shot in the GCL.
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