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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 7, 2015 16:02:28 GMT -5
Urias is probably going to make the majors next year at 19 and maybe even get a start or two in September this year. Espinoza would be on that same track only if he makes it to Greenville this year. It's probably going to be more about strength and durability than ability and results. Of course this is a great big hypothetical that assumes no setbacks or injuries. I don't ever think there will be another Gooden throwing 218 innings as a 19 year old and 276 as a 20 year old. I don't know how he didn't break down. Also, how the hell is Gooden not in the Hall of Fame? I've always said that if Gooden had had his career in reverse (chronologically), it would be obvious to everyone that he was a HOFer. He was so-so for so long that people forgot how ridiculous he was when he was young. I'm with letting Espinoza dominate the GCL this year just to get culturally acclimated, and then letting him loose in A ball next year. It's easy to see him finishing the year in AA. If he does get the bump to Lowell, I suspect it will b because of off-the-field maturity, not baseball reasons.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 7, 2015 16:10:58 GMT -5
That's two balls in the air against Espinoza in three starts, reliability of GCL play-by-play notwithstanding. Not quite. 7 GB, 3 FB (1 hit), 2 PU 7 GB, 2 LD 8 GB, 1 LD. .733 GB%. I've got to cobble together a SIERA-calculating spreadsheet. His GCL FIP is only 2.28 (1.70 in his last 2 starts, though).
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 7, 2015 16:28:53 GMT -5
Taking a look at the Lowell roster it appears that 5 Venezuelan players are currently on the team: Acosta, Basabe, Suarez, Gonzalez, and Martinez. In addition to 10+ Dominican, one would assume Spanish speaking players...Thus, he is surrounded by 15+ Spanish speaking players all within 2 years of his age... In terms of living arrangements it appears that they live and eat in the umass dorms just feet away from thr feild and all meals are taken care of: Per a 2011 Lowell Sun article, "The organization takes advantage of LeLacheur Park's proximity to UMass Lowell by housing all players on the second floor of the Donahue Hall dorm in apartment-style suites. The exceptions are players on rehab assignments. They are put up in a local hotel for a couple nights before returning to their original teams. Dining is never a problem when the team is at home. All meals are paid for by the Red Sox. Breakfast and lunch are served at an on-campus dining hall. Dinner is provided after games at LeLacheur Park's Gator Pit. "We're fortunate for the fact that we're on the campus of UMass Lowell," says Spinners GM Tim Bawmann. "It's a nice situation for the kids. They don't have to have a car, the ballpark is 100 yards from where they live, and the lunch hall and the rec center are across the street." With all this in mind it would seem that the transition would not be a major issue as he would have structure and culture already established in lowell and i would be willing to guess the situation is at lrast comparable to Florida and the GCL.... Great points. I was not aware that Lowell had this structured of an environment. If that's the case, it would not be as big of an adjustment as I initially suggested. Yeah, there's a lot of babysitting that happens. This isn't throwing the players into the deep end quite yet.
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Post by borisman on Jul 7, 2015 16:48:06 GMT -5
FWIW, if you want to get more giddy, Gammons quotes a "Red Sox official" on twitter as saying: "We haven't had anyone like Espinoza in decades." A legit pitching prospect from Venezuela? I agree!
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jul 7, 2015 17:45:45 GMT -5
Espinoza makes Acosta look like the forgotten man now. He seems like more of a project, which seems highly appropriate for a 17 year old where Espinoza seems to be just stupid good at baseball for his age. Hopefully he turns into a MLBer as well, he's not off to a great start but he's 17 and it's a sss. Between Espinoza, Moncada, and Benintendi........the org has done pretty well this year at pumping talent in the system. I really hope the Red Sox do not forget about 17 year old pitchers 12 innings after they were given a $1.5M bonus. Is there any real benefit to promoting Espinoza this early? I could understand if he was a polished hitter who was dominating mistake pitches in the GCL, but as a pitcher there's nothing he can't work on against younger hitters that he can't work on against older. It also wouldn't accelerate his timeline to the majors in any way. I'm all for keeping him put for now to get use to the US. I don't see any real benefit. Lets look at a hypothetical progression for Espinoza. He makes the jump to Greenville next year and completes a level a year. That puts him in Boston at 22, a plausible hypothetical aggressive progression could assume he jumps two levels in two years. That puts him pushing the majors by age 21 maybe even 20, which is 3 years from now. If he continues to outmatch every level he is at, he can still be moved aggressively if he spends the entire year in the GCL. To elaborate back on your first question I'd say a promotion this early is something that us fans like to see because it would represent how advanced and likely he is to be a huge success. The organization doesn't make promotions to appease fans. Lets roll with another hypothetical here and say Espinoza is MLB ready now, how many innings could he pitch before his arm falls off? would we really want to put him in the pen? building up stamina and his innings is important too and you can't always see that progression in the on field results.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 7, 2015 23:29:54 GMT -5
Not to derail the Espinoza thread, but noticed tonight that Acosta hasn't pitched the last three turns through the rotation. Perhaps the reason he wasn't pitching better is that he was pitching through something?
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alnipper
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Post by alnipper on Jul 8, 2015 9:58:03 GMT -5
Another off topic mention is Steen. He is really dealing. Our lower minors is really doing great. As for promoting Espinoza, the Sox know the best path for the kid. They might of started to get to know him when he was 14.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 15, 2015 13:43:25 GMT -5
Mike (Virginia): Any updates on Anderson Espinoza now that he is state-side? What is his ceiling?
Ben Badler: He's electric. Fastball up to 99 mph, plus curveball, feel for a changeup, pounds the strike zone and mixes his pitches like a veteran, not a 17-year-old kid. I would take him over any of the pitchers in the 2015 draft, which is really saying something given that if Espinoza were born in the United States, he wouldn't even be draft-eligible until next season.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 15, 2015 14:25:09 GMT -5
Mike (Virginia): Any updates on Anderson Espinoza now that he is state-side? What is his ceiling? Ben Badler: He's electric. Fastball up to 99 mph, plus curveball, feel for a changeup, pounds the strike zone and mixes his pitches like a veteran, not a 17-year-old kid. I would take him over any of the pitchers in the 2015 draft, which is really saying something given that if Espinoza were born in the United States, he wouldn't even be draft-eligible until next season. Whenever I'm feeling blue, I'm just going to go to this thread and read what other people are saying about Espinoza. With Moncada, Espinoza, and Benintendi we added 3 top 10 picks this calendar year.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 15, 2015 18:01:17 GMT -5
Mike (Virginia): Any updates on Anderson Espinoza now that he is state-side? What is his ceiling? Ben Badler: He's electric. Fastball up to 99 mph, plus curveball, feel for a changeup, pounds the strike zone and mixes his pitches like a veteran, not a 17-year-old kid. I would take him over any of the pitchers in the 2015 draft, which is really saying something given that if Espinoza were born in the United States, he wouldn't even be draft-eligible until next season. Wow. HS pitchers who were the first pitcher taken [/signed], from 1980: '82: Jimmy Jones '87: Willie Banks '91: Brien Taylor '95: Kerry Wood '99: Josh Beckett '10: Jameson Taillon '14: Brady Aiken [/ Tyler Kolek] 7 times in 26 years, twice in the last 16. Jones and Banks both apparently suffered injuries in the minors that seemed to turn them into mediocrities. You know the Taylor story.
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Post by brendan98 on Jul 24, 2015 11:36:26 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 24, 2015 11:59:53 GMT -5
Great to read about his excellent makeup. He is quickly becoming my favorite prospect.
Is it just me or does he look bigger than the 160 he's listed at going by the pictures posted by johnsilver?
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 24, 2015 12:09:29 GMT -5
Great to read about his excellent makeup. He is quickly becoming my favorite prospect. Is it just me or does he look bigger than the 160 he's listed at going by the pictures posted by johnsilver? I noted that I had seen Espinoza pitch here in Sarasota within the last 3 weeks. It is so hard to tell size and weight from the stands even tho right behind the plate but I would have said 5' 11" 175lbs. or so. And Gregson reports what I had observed and noted ....real easy delivery of heat.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 24, 2015 12:39:53 GMT -5
If Espinoza is 160? I'll eat my hat. Would guestimate at more likely around 180-185 right now.
Edit:
That's a nice article on Espinoza and has a lot of things I noticed as well regarding both him and gregson. For one? i didn't notice him throwing any curve balls, just FB's and changes in the 4 inning outing he had. How about you Sarasoxer? Did you notice any curveballs in the game you saw?
Another thing is Gregson.. He would come out of the dugout and into the disabled section each and every inning whenever the Sox pitcher was on the mound to get, what appeared to be a better perspective on the pitcher's mechanics and delivery, cause he was like staring them down I noticed, the Sox pitchers from that front row which had an excellent perspective of any RH pitcher.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Jul 24, 2015 15:32:25 GMT -5
Espinoza will reach about 70 innings this year. Given usual workload progression, he will probably need 3 more years in the minors anyway just to ramp up his workload to what would be a marginal workload for a major league starter. I could see him starting next year in Greenville and working through 4 levels in 3 years, though you never know when he might hit a struggling period in his development.
If the SOX think they haven't had a pitching prospect like him in decades, I imagine they'll really be careful with his development.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 24, 2015 17:38:58 GMT -5
I'd note that the heat has arm-side run, also. That's easy to pick up from the camera angle which is almost directly behind him.
I'm continually impressed with the scouting and recruiting going on in Latin America at this point. These players, guys like Devers, Margot and Espinoza to name just three, aren't just good. They have the potential - emphasize potential - to be exceptional. Add to that top-of-the-line hitters such as Benintendi, and there's a bit to dream on.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 24, 2015 17:42:26 GMT -5
I know this is cherry picking and he's age advanced, but he isn't striking too many people out for someone with his stuff and advanced command of multiple pitches.
I'm going to temper my expectations and play it safe. Unfair to expect anyone to be Urias.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 24, 2015 18:01:39 GMT -5
I'd note that the heat has arm-side run, also. That's easy to pick up from the camera angle which is almost directly behind him. I'm continually impressed with the scouting and recruiting going on in Latin America at this point. These players, guys like Devers, Margot and Espinoza to name just three, aren't just good. They have the potential - emphasize potential - to be exceptional. Add to that top-of-the-line hitters such as Benintendi, and there's a bit to dream on. Let's just hope that we don't have to be a group of Rip Van Winkles.
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Post by joshv02 on Jul 24, 2015 18:54:48 GMT -5
I know this is cherry picking and he's age advanced, but he isn't striking too many people out for someone with his stuff and advanced command of multiple pitches. I'm going to temper my expectations and play it safe. Unfair to expect anyone to be Urias. What is this safe you write of? Irrational exuberance is fun. Baseball is about fun. Just let it go.
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Post by jmei on Jul 24, 2015 19:14:57 GMT -5
Espinoza will reach about 70 innings this year. Given usual workload progression, he will probably need 3 more years in the minors anyway just to ramp up his workload to what would be a marginal workload for a major league starter. He'll have thrown additional innings in extended spring training (and maybe fall instructs). They'll keep an eye on his innings, but he could ramp up quickly if he shows he's ready for it.
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Post by telson13 on Jul 24, 2015 20:15:33 GMT -5
Mike (Virginia): Any updates on Anderson Espinoza now that he is state-side? What is his ceiling? Ben Badler: He's electric. Fastball up to 99 mph, plus curveball, feel for a changeup, pounds the strike zone and mixes his pitches like a veteran, not a 17-year-old kid. I would take him over any of the pitchers in the 2015 draft, which is really saying something given that if Espinoza were born in the United States, he wouldn't even be draft-eligible until next season. I know HS righties don't go #1 overall, but Espinoza seems on a par with Dylan Bundy at the same age, and in this year's draft could've been the exception to the rule. Moncada was also considered by some evaluators to be a 1/1 or at least top-3 equivalent. And Benintendi has been as advertised, plus he's shown pop with wood bats. If the Sox traded for Carrasco, and didn't sign any QO FAs, they'll have probably 5/45 or so next year in the draft. I'd love to see them sell off, garner a few more top-100 guys, and trade from excess in the offseason. With their current young talent in MLB, and this upcoming hyper-talented wave, they're in position to be very good perhaps as soon as next year but certainly by 2018 and for a while after that.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Jul 24, 2015 20:38:21 GMT -5
Mike (Virginia): Any updates on Anderson Espinoza now that he is state-side? What is his ceiling? Ben Badler: He's electric. Fastball up to 99 mph, plus curveball, feel for a changeup, pounds the strike zone and mixes his pitches like a veteran, not a 17-year-old kid. I would take him over any of the pitchers in the 2015 draft, which is really saying something given that if Espinoza were born in the United States, he wouldn't even be draft-eligible until next season. I know HS righties don't go #1 overall, but Espinoza seems on a par with Dylan Bundy at the same age, and in this year's draft could've been the exception to the rule. Moncada was also considered by some evaluators to be a 1/1 or at least top-3 equivalent. And Benintendi has been as advertised, plus he's shown pop with wood bats. If the Sox traded for Carrasco, and didn't sign any QO FAs, they'll have probably 5/45 or so next year in the draft. I'd love to see them sell off, garner a few more top-100 guys, and trade from excess in the offseason. With their current young talent in MLB, and this upcoming hyper-talented wave, they're in position to be very good perhaps as soon as next year but certainly by 2018 and for a while after that. The thing that sobers me about this upcoming very young wave of talent is that, at best, it is the last wave I'll ever get to see fully recognize its potential. If we do get exceptional players out of this crop and they have long major league careers, by the time they reach the end of those careers there is more than a 50% probability that I will have died. Such is aging.
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dd
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Post by dd on Jul 24, 2015 22:27:15 GMT -5
I know HS righties don't go #1 overall, but Espinoza seems on a par with Dylan Bundy at the same age, and in this year's draft could've been the exception to the rule. Moncada was also considered by some evaluators to be a 1/1 or at least top-3 equivalent. And Benintendi has been as advertised, plus he's shown pop with wood bats. If the Sox traded for Carrasco, and didn't sign any QO FAs, they'll have probably 5/45 or so next year in the draft. I'd love to see them sell off, garner a few more top-100 guys, and trade from excess in the offseason. With their current young talent in MLB, and this upcoming hyper-talented wave, they're in position to be very good perhaps as soon as next year but certainly by 2018 and for a while after that. The thing that sobers me about this upcoming very young wave of talent is that, at best, it is the last wave I'll ever get to see fully recognize its potential. If we do get exceptional players out of this crop and they have long major league careers, by the time they reach the end of those careers there is more than a 50% probability that I will have died. Such is aging. This has been such a fun thread, AF.
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Post by proudtoserve on Jul 25, 2015 6:41:39 GMT -5
I know HS righties don't go #1 overall, but Espinoza seems on a par with Dylan Bundy at the same age, and in this year's draft could've been the exception to the rule. Moncada was also considered by some evaluators to be a 1/1 or at least top-3 equivalent. And Benintendi has been as advertised, plus he's shown pop with wood bats. If the Sox traded for Carrasco, and didn't sign any QO FAs, they'll have probably 5/45 or so next year in the draft. I'd love to see them sell off, garner a few more top-100 guys, and trade from excess in the offseason. With their current young talent in MLB, and this upcoming hyper-talented wave, they're in position to be very good perhaps as soon as next year but certainly by 2018 and for a while after that. The thing that sobers me about this upcoming very young wave of talent is that, at best, it is the last wave I'll ever get to see fully recognize its potential. If we do get exceptional players out of this crop and they have long major league careers, by the time they reach the end of those careers there is more than a 50% probability that I will have died. Such is aging. Dear Sir, I am not particularly old, but I sincerely feel your pain, and going thru watching Sox games, suddenly my muscles just don't seem right, and gosh is my knee acting up and whats that back pain? ......May I suggest ..... take a short break from NESN live games, talk-radio, and log-in here on the Forum section and feel some positive vibes from whats coming thru .... probably quite soon.... there are some pretty good posters here, particularly some of the very recent new ones (several on this trail).....I honestly don't think this is "the Last Wave" (a bit of imprecision on your age), but hopefully there appears to be enough transparency on two waves coming thru in the next 4-5 years....its really going to be very interesting starting late next year and then again 3 years from now.....enough for you to feel young again, as all of us hope to always feel in the future.....
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Post by telluricrook on Jul 27, 2015 16:09:26 GMT -5
Due to the fact that its going to rain forever in florida i think it could be hurting espinozas progress if these rainouts keep happening, i thing its time to move him to lowell
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