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Gomes and sox close to 2 year deal
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Post by charliezink16 on Nov 21, 2012 18:20:29 GMT -5
His high K rate is concerning, but regardless, a 2012 OPS of .974 vs LHP is intriguing, even if it was just a "spurt" from his .894 career OPS vs LHP's. I also like the fact that 16 of his 18 HR's were to LF, so he'll fit right in at Fenway. Why sign Ross to a 3-year deal if they can sign Gomes to a 2-year deal, and expect him to up somewhat similar stats in a platoon situation. If you look at Gomes and Ross's FB, LD, and GB%'s to LF, they are quite similar, so you have to believe that Boston thinks Gomes can put up similar stats to Ross, thats just my opinion.
Oh and let's not forget that Gomes is a good clubhouse guy with the "fun douschebag" attitude similar to Millar and Damon that players love. Boston needs to inject a guy like that into their clubhouse badly, so I'm all for it.
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Post by mjammz on Nov 21, 2012 18:29:09 GMT -5
Everyone is focusing on a platoon with with Kalish/Nava or still signing Ross, but I think these rumors about Swisher might have some legit traction. It's clear the Red Sox want to improve OBP and have flexibility between the postions. If the team signs say Swisher and Napoli they would be able to mix and match between the OF, 1B and catcher depending upon the matchup.
It's clear to me Gomes is not an everyday player, never has been. So at 32 I highly doubt they plan on making him one. Based on everything Ben C and the people close to the team are saying they are going to make some big moves this off-season and I think two of them need to be bats. Based on whats available I really like Swishers game and his clubhouse personality which the team is placing an high price on.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 21, 2012 18:55:11 GMT -5
Jerry Sands is certainly unhappy to hear this news. I was going to say Cody Ross, but either way.
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Post by Pete Morrison on Nov 21, 2012 19:08:31 GMT -5
Well it certainly looks like with the infusion of new TV money into the sport we are looking at a new round of salary inflation this off-season.
Just like with the Nick Punto deal it is hard to justify multiple years to a part time role player. So it is hard to get very excited about this prospective deal.
It will be interesting to see what the dollar is. Given the Red Sox payroll, I almost wonder if going to 2 years is an intentional move on their part to lower AAV it takes to fill the role and the 2nd year salary is considered dead money going in, meaning they are perfectly willing to accept they may have to cut bait with him before next season. This would allow them to keep more money in reserve to throw out a few large "pillow contracts" as the free agent market shakes out.
Of course if the salary inflation continues, pillow contracts may not be an option.
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Post by grandsalami on Nov 21, 2012 20:26:25 GMT -5
Susan Slusser @susanslusser Again, that's two years and $10 million for Gomes, $5 million per season guaranteed, The Chronicle is reporting.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 21, 2012 20:36:39 GMT -5
Susan Slusser @susanslusser Again, that's two years and $10 million for Gomes, $5 million per season guaranteed, The Chronicle is reporting. Wow! Ten mil for two years of Jonny Gomes? My how the free agent landscape has changed.
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Post by bluechip on Nov 21, 2012 20:37:46 GMT -5
Everyone is focusing on a platoon with with Kalish/Nava or still signing Ross, but I think these rumors about Swisher might have some legit traction. It's clear the Red Sox want to improve OBP and have flexibility between the postions. If the team signs say Swisher and Napoli they would be able to mix and match between the OF, 1B and catcher depending upon the matchup. It's clear to me Gomes is not an everyday player, never has been. So at 32 I highly doubt they plan on making him one. Based on everything Ben C and the people close to the team are saying they are going to make some big moves this off-season and I think two of them need to be bats. Based on whats available I really like Swishers game and his clubhouse personality which the team is placing an high price on. Imagine it was Gomes or Ross for the front office. They are pretty redundant players.
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Post by bluechip on Nov 21, 2012 20:39:03 GMT -5
Susan Slusser @susanslusser Again, that's two years and $10 million for Gomes, $5 million per season guaranteed, The Chronicle is reporting. Fangraphs crowdsourcing was right on then... That's a lot of cash for a platoon player.
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Post by wskeleton76 on Nov 21, 2012 20:39:43 GMT -5
Damn. It's weird. I would like to give 3/20~25 to cody ross rather than 2/10 to Jonny Gomes.
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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 21, 2012 20:41:11 GMT -5
I am very pleased, in so much as this move means the Red Sox will not be grossly overpaying for Cody Ross. My thoughts exactly, very well played sir.
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Post by patrmac04 on Nov 21, 2012 20:42:46 GMT -5
Susan Slusser @susanslusser Again, that's two years and $10 million for Gomes, $5 million per season guaranteed, The Chronicle is reporting. I am seeing these numbers posted in multiple locations so it looks to be a done deal. This move is very small but I like it. I would like it a hell of a lot more if it is followed up by signing or trading for an impact bat and pitcher... but the move in itself is a solid value move. Moneyball style of adding up the numbers and figuring out how to get to the bottom line with undervalued players. Sent from my SGH-T999 using proboards
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Post by marrcus on Nov 21, 2012 20:44:03 GMT -5
"ten mil for two years of Jonny Gomes?" ------------------------------------------------------ Well that's pretty disgusting. I thought there was still a more than likely chance Ross would reup. Not now.
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Post by beany24 on Nov 21, 2012 21:00:09 GMT -5
This has to be a joke. The Sox have enough AAA players already.
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Post by charliezink16 on Nov 21, 2012 21:02:48 GMT -5
See I don't understand the big deal with the money they gave Gomes. I mean does it really matter if its 2/5mil as opposed to 2/10mil? Boston has over 100mil to spend right now (not saying they should spend it), so overpaying a little bit on a short term deal isn't the end of the world. Pre-Punto trade, this would be terrible, but I don't see the big deal.
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Post by charliezink16 on Nov 21, 2012 21:05:19 GMT -5
@brianmacp: $5 million per year for Jonny Gomes (2.1 WAR last season) might seem steep, but Torii Hunter (5.3 WAR) got almost 2 1/2 times that.
@brianmacp: And if ever a team could afford to pay $5 million per year for a $3 million per year platoon outfielder, it's this Red Sox team.
Yup.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2012 22:07:08 GMT -5
I'm with you. If you don't overuse him, Gomes isn't all that bad. He is a right handed bat that can hit for power. I'm more worried about the two years than the $5M per. With the OF market as saturated as it is, I do think that the Red Sox could have gotten a similar player, like Ryan Ludwick, for less had they waited.
Some have mentioned Jerry Sands as possibly losing playing time to Gomes. If the reports on Sands are correct, you hope that he could one day be what Gomes is today. The Red Sox are paying $10M for more certainty.
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Post by jmei on Nov 21, 2012 22:31:10 GMT -5
Damn. It's weird. I would like to give 3/20~25 to cody ross rather than 2/10 to Jonny Gomes. Really? Ross is a much better defender than Gomes, but Gomes is pretty unambiguously the better hitter. 2012: Ross: .267/.326/.481 (in Fenway), 113 RC+ Gomes: .262/.377/.491 (in the Coliseum), 142 RC+ Last three years: Ross: .260/.324/.434, 104 RC+ Gomes: .249/.340/.434, 111 RC+ Career: Ross: .262/.324/.460, 106 RC+ Gomes: .244/.334/.455, 110 RC+ Also keep in mind Gomes is only a month older than Ross and will almost certainly benefit from being in Fenway-- he's a dead pull hitter and it wouldn't surprise me if he had a career year next season, much as Ross did. That said, Ross is a -much- better defender than Gomes-- Ross is essentially average in the outfield corners, whereas Gomes is a career -13 UZR/150, which is pretty bad (for reference: Manny was a career -20.8 in LF, Jason Bay was -7.7-- so somewhere between the two). On the bright side, almost all of that negative defensive value comes from terrible range, and that can be partially hidden at Fenway. He'll also get some ABs at DH against lefties, I imagine. Overall, it's not a great value signing or anything, but it's not a terrible deal either. Gomes and Ross are basically the same type of player-- lefty mashers who aren't quite good enough to be starters, especially as they age. I much prefer this to a three year, $24m-type deal for Cody Ross, which is what I think he will eventually end up signing. Given the very shallow corner outfielder FA pool, I think guys like Ludwick and Hairston will end up signing very similar deals, and Gomes is as good as either. I also agree with the tweets above that this is the kind of deal where the Red Sox can flex some of their newly rediscovered financial muscle but still leaves ample salary space for 1B/RF/SP.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 21, 2012 22:36:45 GMT -5
Damn. It's weird. I would like to give 3/20~25 to cody ross rather than 2/10 to Jonny Gomes. Really? Ross is a much better defender than Gomes, but Gomes is pretty unambiguously the better hitter. 2012: Ross: .267/.326/.481 (in Fenway), 113 RC+ Gomes: .262/.377/.491 (in the Coliseum), 142 RC+ Last three years: Ross: .260/.324/.434, 104 RC+ Gomes: .249/.340/.434, 111 RC+ Career: Ross: .262/.324/.460, 106 RC+ Gomes: .244/.334/.455, 110 RC+ Also keep in mind Gomes is only a month older than Ross. That said, Ross is a -much- better defender than Gomes-- Ross is essentially average in the outfield corners, whereas Gomes is a career -13 UZR/150, which is pretty bad (for reference: Manny was a career -20.8 in LF, Jason Bay was -7.7-- so somewhere between the two). On the bright side, almost all of that negative defensive value comes from terrible range, and that can be partially hidden at Fenway. He'll also get some ABs at DH against lefties, I imagine. Overall, it's not a great value signing or anything, but it's not a terrible deal either. Gomes and Ross are basically the same type of player-- lefty mashers who aren't quite good enough to be starters, especially as they age. I much prefer this to a three year, $24m-type deal for Cody Ross, which is what I think he will eventually end up signing. I also agree with the tweets above that this is the kind of deal where the Red Sox can flex some of their newly rediscovered financial muscle but still leaves ample salary space for 1B/RF/SP. I think Gomes is a better offensive player than Ross, too, but couldn't it be argued that Gomes was spotted better than Ross, meaning that Ross played more against righties dragging his numbers down further than Gomes who was used in a stricter role specializing against lefties? I think Gomes is better at seeing pitches than Ross, and that's something the Sox can use. What concerns me is that the Sox now have to have a LH LF bat to platoon with Gomes. Is this Kalish or Nava? (Can't be Sweeney, can it? I'd hope not.) So are they doing a makeshift platoon in LF to make it so they can spend their money elsewhere, such as blowing it on an all-star RF (who played alot of CF gor Texas) or spreading it around for the Drews, Napolis, and Swishers of the world?
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Post by mredsox89 on Nov 21, 2012 22:43:23 GMT -5
So if the sox had signed him for 2 years, $3M per, would it all of a sudden be a much better deal? In reality, the team isn't at all cash strapped/at the luxury tax, and a few million like this won't make any difference. Gomes at $5M/year without the $ holding the Sox back from everything else is completely fine by me. You are overpaying for a bench player, but you are getting a guy who is a .250 hitter with power, as opposed to a chance at something like that or better out of your farm system. The Sox also don't exactly have an abundance of guys in the upper minors that could step into that role, without hurting their development.
I'd much rather have Gomes at that cost, than promote someone like Brentz, Shaw or Hazelbaker at the cost of keeping them from improving full time in high affiliate ball.
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Post by jmei on Nov 21, 2012 22:44:09 GMT -5
I think Gomes is a better offensive player than Ross, too, but couldn't it be argued that Gomes was spotted better than Ross, meaning that Ross played more against righties dragging his numbers down further than Gomes who was used in a stricter role specializing against lefties? Ross against lefties, career: .284/.353/.575, 141 wRC+ Last three years: .276/.352/.530, 135 wRC+ Gomes against lefties, career: .284/.382/.512, 140 wRC+ Last three years: .296/.398/.506, 148 wRC+ Ross against righties, career: .253/.312/.415. 92 wRC+ Last three years: .254/.315/.402, 94 wRC+ Gomes against righties, career: .222/.307/.424, 93 wRC+ Last three years: .220/.302/.390, 87 wRC+
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Post by patrmac04 on Nov 21, 2012 22:49:59 GMT -5
I think Gomes is a better offensive player than Ross, too, but couldn't it be argued that Gomes was spotted better than Ross, meaning that Ross played more against righties dragging his numbers down further than Gomes who was used in a stricter role specializing against lefties? Ross against lefties, career: .284/.353/.575, 141 wRC+ Last three years: .276/.352/.530, 135 wRC+ Gomes against lefties, career: .284/.382/.512, 140 wRC+ Last three years: .296/.398/.506, 148 wRC+ Ross against righties, career: .253/.312/.415. 92 wRC+ Last three years: .254/.315/.402, 94 wRC+ Gomes against righties, career: .222/.307/.424, 93 wRC+ Last three years: .220/.302/.390, 87 wRC+ I think this is obvious that Nava will platoon with gomes since he hit 324 with a 1.001 OPS vs. Righties last year in the minors... i am on my phone so am having trouble getting his splits in the majors... but he does show a split from last year. That is a very effective left field tandem right there. Both guys work the count very effectively and should provide ample production. Sent from my SGH-T999 using proboards
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Post by patrmac04 on Nov 21, 2012 22:56:07 GMT -5
Found it... nava was much more effective vs righties last year in the majors as well. I am not sure this move rules out cody ross as it fills the need of a platoon partner for nava in my eyes. sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8742/splitsSent from my SGH-T999 using proboards
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Post by bluechip on Nov 21, 2012 23:23:26 GMT -5
Found it... nava was much more effective vs righties last year in the majors as well. I am not sure this move rules out cody ross as it fills the need of a platoon partner for nava in my eyes. sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8742/splitsSent from my SGH-T999 using proboards I guess, in theory, Cody Ross is corner OF platoon against righties. Gomes (.715 OPS v. righties) and Ross (.729 OPS v. righties) are really ideally not full time players. With Gomes already on the roster, Ross would become redundant, unless the team wanted to platoon both right and left field. I would disappointed if the "significant payroll" BC added this offseason was to create platoons in right and left with veterans entering their 30s.
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Post by klostrophobic on Nov 21, 2012 23:43:15 GMT -5
Great signing. 5 million dollars per annum is not a lot of money. He'll get 350-400 PA and put up a 800-850 OPS. Some combination of Nava/Kalish/Sweeney/trade target can fill in for RF and the other half of the LF platoon.
But really, you can't judge a single move in a vacuum. How this works out depends on what the rest of the OF looks like.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2012 1:18:46 GMT -5
good signing, the sox needed a platoon outfielder with power. i'd love for him to split playing time with ryan kalish or nava. i'm a big fan of kalish and i hope the sox give him a chance. for all i care, the sox could non-tender or trade ryan sweeny. he plays good defense and is a good hitter, but he offers no speed or power. you need to have more than that to play in the AL east.
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