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Royals considering Myers-for-Lester trade
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Post by bluechip on Nov 27, 2012 11:57:44 GMT -5
Pitching help could be Bruce Chen and his 4.5 million dollar contract.
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badfishnbc
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Doing you all a favor and leaving through the gate in right field since 2012.
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Post by badfishnbc on Nov 27, 2012 12:06:31 GMT -5
I agree that trading Lester is hardly burying the franchise in 2012 - he's clearly in need of a fresh start (though I'm not sure why the Mariners wouldn't be jumping all over this if he was on the block).
What scares me is the last time we traded for a top-tier prospect: Andy Marte. But I'm willing to take the gamble in this case. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - this is the year to swing for the fences, and if we miss on one, so be it.
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Post by burythehammer on Nov 27, 2012 12:13:18 GMT -5
People act like the fact that they turned around and traded Marte had no reflection on their opinion of him as a prospect.
Also, am I missing something with people calling Myers a local kid? He went to Weslyan in North Carolina .
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Post by elguapo on Nov 27, 2012 12:19:35 GMT -5
Also, am I missing something with people calling Myers a local kid? He went to Weslyan in North Carolina . Local is relative.
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badfishnbc
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Doing you all a favor and leaving through the gate in right field since 2012.
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Post by badfishnbc on Nov 27, 2012 12:27:33 GMT -5
People act like the fact that they turned around and traded Marte had no reflection on their opinion of him as a prospect. I'm just referring to the fact that Marte was a massive bust, and certainly not the player we thought we were getting in exchange for Renteria. Call it a heightened awareness of the risk inherent to prospects, that's all. Like I said, I'm all for bringing in Myers at the price of Lester.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 12:44:17 GMT -5
id only do it if we got a pitching prospect in return in addition in myers. i'd trade andrew bailey in addition to lester to get that pitching prospect. although coming off a down year, i will miss lester...
bailey can be gone for all i care. tazawa, melancon, or bard can close
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Post by iakovos11 on Nov 27, 2012 12:45:06 GMT -5
Melancon cannot close.
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Post by kindasweaty on Nov 27, 2012 12:54:16 GMT -5
Kind of a strange thing to say about a guy who closed for his last team. And not for nothing, but Rafael Soriano is chillin' in free agency right now.
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Post by buffs4444 on Nov 27, 2012 12:55:52 GMT -5
(1) Do you really think trading Jon Lester is "burying the franchise?" (2) If you don't like the risk, I guarantee you can flip Myers for a more established player who adds more value to the 2013-14 Red Sox than Lester likely would. 1) For the next 2-3 years, as I said, yes. I'm not sure what other message it would send to the team and to other FA's when you trade your homegrown top starter for a prospect 2-3 years away from contributing consistently. And if you're Napoli, Swisher, Hamilton, etc....why sign here if the team is raising that white flag? "Go to Texas, Baltimore, etc and compete, or sign with Boston and rebuild?" Not a tough call for 31-32 year old guys who want to win a championship. 2) I'd be stunned if Farrell was on board with that logic I'm not completely sold on this being more than "vetting every possibility". Poor timing, to be sure, with tickets going on sale. To be honest, I figured this would be the week they announced a major signing/trade. But if they're not convinced they can rebuild on the fly, this would be a clear signal they're going the alternate route.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 27, 2012 12:56:05 GMT -5
Odorizzi wont be traded. He's MLB ready and the Royals have six years to see how good he is.
I'd rather see us try for Ventura, Hochevar, Hosmer, Mondesi, or Cuthbert as another part of the deal.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 27, 2012 13:02:11 GMT -5
Twenty saves in 25 save opportunities for Houston in 2011, the only year he was placed in a closer role.I believe there are better options for this team for the closer role but your statement is not backed up by the facts
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Post by patrmac04 on Nov 27, 2012 13:09:34 GMT -5
(1) Do you really think trading Jon Lester is "burying the franchise?" (2) If you don't like the risk, I guarantee you can flip Myers for a more established player who adds more value to the 2013-14 Red Sox than Lester likely would. 1) For the next 2-3 years, as I said, yes. I'm not sure what other message it would send to the team and to other FA's when you trade your homegrown top starter for a prospect 2-3 years away from contributing consistently. And if you're Napoli, Swisher, Hamilton, etc....why sign here if the team is raising that white flag? "Go to Texas, Baltimore, etc and compete, or sign with Boston and rebuild?" Not a tough call for 31-32 year old guys who want to win a championship. 2) I'd be stunned if Farrell was on board with that logic I'm not completely sold on this being more than "vetting every possibility". Poor timing, to be sure, with tickets going on sale. To be honest, I figured this would be the week they announced a major signing/trade. But if they're not convinced they can rebuild on the fly, this would be a clear signal they're going the alternate route. For what it is worth the sox sent out invoices for season tickets early this year. They gave a price break to get their check early. My guess is that this team might not be done with the "blow it up" phase and the sox wanted to lock in season ticket holders before december for a reason. Sent from my SGH-T999 using proboards
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 27, 2012 13:12:58 GMT -5
(1) Do you really think trading Jon Lester is "burying the franchise?" (2) If you don't like the risk, I guarantee you can flip Myers for a more established player who adds more value to the 2013-14 Red Sox than Lester likely would. 1) For the next 2-3 years, as I said, yes. I'm not sure what other message it would send to the team and to other FA's when you trade your homegrown top starter for a prospect 2-3 years away from contributing consistently. And if you're Napoli, Swisher, Hamilton, etc....why sign here if the team is raising that white flag? "Go to Texas, Baltimore, etc and compete, or sign with Boston and rebuild?" Not a tough call for 31-32 year old guys who want to win a championship. 2) I'd be stunned if Farrell was on board with that logic I'm not completely sold on this being more than "vetting every possibility". Poor timing, to be sure, with tickets going on sale. To be honest, I figured this would be the week they announced a major signing/trade. But if they're not convinced they can rebuild on the fly, this would be a clear signal they're going the alternate route. I haven't read any scouting reports that Myers is 2-3 years away from contributing. On the contrary, the reports I read have him as close to ML ready He spent 99 games in AAA last year and we all know what numbers he put up. But, giving the benefit of the doubt, if he were two years away from contributing , that would be about the time that JBJ, Barnes, Xander and Webster are ready to contribute as well.
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Post by patrmac04 on Nov 27, 2012 13:17:29 GMT -5
Before I can decide if this is a good idea or not.... has anyone ever scouted Myers personally? Any insight that I can't get off google would make me feel more comfortable.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using proboards
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Post by bighead on Nov 27, 2012 13:21:22 GMT -5
Kind of a strange thing to say about a guy who closed for his last team. And not for nothing, but Rafael Soriano is chillin' in free agency right now. I thought the Sox were focussing on smart expenditures. Paying Soriano more money than any closer in history and giving up a draft pick, 2nd rounder or otherwise, that doesn't feel smart.
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Post by buffs4444 on Nov 27, 2012 13:28:36 GMT -5
Not contributing period, contributing consistently as a middle of the order bat. Not everybody comes up and jumps into the heart of the lineup a la a-Ryan Braun, so just including some ramp up time for the kid to adjust. Now, if the FO is sold on him definitely making a Braun-esque leap next year, it's a different story.....
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 27, 2012 13:30:04 GMT -5
id only do it if we got a pitching prospect in return in addition in myers. i'd trade andrew bailey in addition to lester to get that pitching prospect. although coming off a down year, i will miss lester... bailey can be gone for all i care. tazawa, melancon, or bard can close What Daniel Bard were you watching last year? He couldn't throw strikes at all, had a ton of hit batsmen and wild pitches, and hitters were hitting him with consistency. Other than that, what makes you think Bard can close in 2013?
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 27, 2012 13:35:05 GMT -5
Not contributing period, contributing consistently as a middle of the order bat. Not everybody comes up and jumps into the heart of the lineup a la a-Ryan Braun, so just including some ramp up time for the kid to adjust. Now, if the FO is sold on him definitely making a Braun-esque leap next year, it's a different story..... Who cares if he takes time to adjust? We're not making the playoffs this year with or without Lester IMO.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 27, 2012 13:36:46 GMT -5
I'd be all over a Myers for Lester deal if I thought it were a real possibility.
Lester will most likely be better than he was in 2012. Hard to be much worse, but his days of being a potential Cy Young candidate are over, and within two seasons, his contract will be over. At this rate I wouldn't want to pay him between $15 - $20 million/year.
Myers, OTOH, like somebody else pointed out, would team with Xander provide the Sox with a heckuva 3-4 punch for a long time.
Losing Lester would hurt the team short-term. But the Sox could plug in short-term with Marcum and/or Haren to go with Buchholz, Lackey, Doubront, and Morales while De La Rosa, Barnes, and Webster are still developing.
Honestly, I think it's just too good to be true, and even if the Sox had to include Kalish or Brentz and take back Bruce Chen to even things out a little bit, I think if there's a deal to be made, it will be with Tampa, who has the pitching and can part with a Hellickson for an impact middle of the order bat (to team with Longoria) and still have a strong rotation.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Nov 27, 2012 13:37:19 GMT -5
The Red Sox don't have many significant trade chips right now. For Lester, the best case scenario is him reestablishing value as an elite pitcher on a contending Red Sox team. The next best case scenario is him reestablishing value on a mediocre Red Sox team, and getting flipped at the deadline for someone who is hopefully close to as valuable as Myers.
If the Red Sox are really confident in Lester returning to elite levels, next year and for years to come, this is the time to talk extension. The only thing I don't want to happen is the "wait and see" approach. If he continues his decline, he'll have minimal value next winter. If he reestablishes himself and has a great season, he'll be one year away from FA with significantly more bargaining power and they'll have to lose him for picks or lock him up for a top of the market deal. Either way, there just isn't great value unless he helps lead the 2013 team to a World Series. If the Red Sox really believe in Lester, great, talk extension now while his leverage is down. If they see the declining performance and loss of velocity as long term problems and think there's a good chance he'll never be an elite pitcher again, they need to deal him this offseason. They need to try to get value right now, invest in Lester or invest in a real rebuild.
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Post by elguapo on Nov 27, 2012 13:44:41 GMT -5
If the Sox did pull off a trade like this, they'd very likely bring in two prominent free agent starters, say Sanchez and Dempster. Having Myers in RF would free up tens of millions allocated to filling that position for the next few years.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 27, 2012 13:47:10 GMT -5
Not contributing period, contributing consistently as a middle of the order bat. Not everybody comes up and jumps into the heart of the lineup a la a-Ryan Braun, so just including some ramp up time for the kid to adjust. Now, if the FO is sold on him definitely making a Braun-esque leap next year, it's a different story..... Its not just Ryan Braun. Jason Heyward and Bryce Harper had immediate impacts on ML rosters at a similar age. Agree, the FO must have confidence that Myers will be able to contribute offensively in a major way to make that trade.
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Post by jrffam05 on Nov 27, 2012 14:00:19 GMT -5
I understand that Myers is not a sure thing, but lets not forget how unstable pitchers can be. Who would of thought last year that the Angels would not pick up the 13M option of Haren (3M buyout). Lester is has been trending downwards but I really doubt he will continue to put up years like 2012, and expect him to bounce to some extent.
I am all for rebuilding the Red Sox from within, right now their strongest card is their payroll flexability. If they can trade Lester straight up for Myers, they can pick up someone like McCarthy, Haren, Dempster to a similar contract. These pitchers all have question marks that come with them, but if they stay healthy can fill the 2 year gap that trading Lester would create, while gaining a top 10 prospect.
Speaking worth wise, what who do you think is worth more, Myers or Lester. It is tough to gauge, and really has a couple different dimensions to it, Pitcher against hitter, Veteran vs rookie, 1 year samples, team need, fan perception, so on.
To gauge trade value, how would Lester compare to Garza's or Josh Johnsons value last year? How do these pitchers value compare, Lester, Buch, Doubrount, DLR, Barnes?
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Post by iakovos11 on Nov 27, 2012 14:01:46 GMT -5
Twenty saves in 25 save opportunities for Houston in 2011, the only year he was placed in a closer role.I believe there are better options for this team for the closer role but your statement is not backed up by the facts OK. Shouldn't be closing in the AL East. That 80% save % would have placed him tied for 13th in the AL last year (although ahead of Aceves - but that's not saying much). I think saves are more challenging in the AL, the AL east especially. Would you seriously be comfortable going into the 9th with a 1-2 run lead and Melancon coming in to get key outs? I'd be more comfortable with Baley, Tazawa, and even Bard, assuming he shows in spring training he's back to his 2010/2011 reliever form. Melancon did improve in the 2nd half, and I think he can be useful BP piece, but hopefully not as a closer.
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Post by larrycook on Nov 27, 2012 14:05:01 GMT -5
Left handed power pitching is hard to find/replace. Yes, Lester's velocity is down three years in a row, but so was his tempo. (The Becket effect)
Three things we need to ask ourselves.
1.) Will Lester's velocity and tempo pick back up now that Becket is gone? 2.) Will Lester thrive outside the AL East and make this trade look really bad in 3 years? 3.) Also with Becket gone, will Lester not throw so many cut fastball taters, which will cause his ERA to drop?
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