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Midseason Top Prospect Lists (BP, BA, Law)
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 6, 2015 9:07:58 GMT -5
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Post by cologneredsox on Jul 6, 2015 9:31:16 GMT -5
3 top 15 prospects sure is a nice thing to have... That being said: Wasn't Owens in the top 30? The pitching seems to be lagging behind in the eyes of the evaluators.
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Post by brnichols19873 on Jul 6, 2015 10:43:57 GMT -5
3 top 15 prospects sure is a nice thing to have... That being said: Wasn't Owens in the top 30? The pitching seems to be lagging behind in the eyes of the evaluators. Not really the case if you look a little deeper as Kopech made the list of "just missed" prospects and one would assume he will be on many top 50s come seasons end as scouts have a chance to properly evaluate him and in addition the same goes for Espinoza as he has a good chance of making top 50s in off-season if he continues to dominate low levels especially if he earns a promotion to A ball this season... on the whole, the system is really really stacked as they have pretty good shot of placing 6 players in the top 50s this off-season: Kopech, Espinoza and benintendi joining the three already there. That has to be up there with any organization in baseball!
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 6, 2015 10:44:22 GMT -5
3 top 15 prospects sure is a nice thing to have... That being said: Wasn't Owens in the top 30? The pitching seems to be lagging behind in the eyes of the evaluators. He fell out and that's not really surprising given the year he's had. I mean, look at our rankings, where he's fallen from third to seventh. As for the "pitching lagging behind", note that they don't rank anyone who's in the majors - Eddie Rodriguez certainly makes the list otherwise. Michael Kopech made the "Just Missed" list as well. www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=26855EDIT: Heh, beaten to the punch. I think that the "further evaluation" point is worth focusing on here though - midseason lists tend not to be as thoroughly done as offseason lists, in my experience, and a lot can change in another half season.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 6, 2015 11:06:34 GMT -5
3 top 15 prospects sure is a nice thing to have...That being said: Wasn't Owens in the top 30? The pitching seems to be lagging behind in the eyes of the evaluators. All international signees too. You'd have to think if the big league season went closer to plan we'd see Swihart and E-rod in the top 20. Good to see Devers and Margot ranking so high on a quality list. Was slightly surprising to me.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 6, 2015 11:09:08 GMT -5
Espinoza snubbed from the top spot.
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alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 619
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Post by alnipper on Jul 6, 2015 11:14:14 GMT -5
A day before ERod was promoted Law had said on t.v. ERod was his 3rd ranked pitcher.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Jul 6, 2015 11:27:29 GMT -5
They won't all make it, but it sure is going to be fun to watch that next waive come up. Hard to believe this you could count the number of elite level prospects this team produced over the last 20 years on one hand. Over the last few years, it has been a consistent flow of them. You can't always see it in top 100 lists because Mookie and Rodriguez made huge leaps mid-season, but I've never seen a run like Bogaerts - Betts - Rodriguez - Swihart in my time following this team. And to follow it up with this kind of talent in A-Ball is really remarkable.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Jul 6, 2015 12:18:37 GMT -5
Owens definitely gets a lot of flack for the season he's had, but isn't he working on his curveball at the expense of his best pitch (changeup)? Pretty sure the Sox want him to develop that 3rd pitch and are sacrificing present results for his development as a SP.
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Post by cologneredsox on Jul 6, 2015 12:25:45 GMT -5
Not to be misunderstood: I have high hopes for Owens, kopech, Espinosa and even ball plus many of the lower ceiling guys (Buttrey, Johnson). I just thought they'd be ranked higher/be valued more then BP seems to do at this point.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 6, 2015 12:34:24 GMT -5
Not to be misunderstood: I have high hopes for Owens, kopech, Espinosa and even ball plus many of the lower ceiling guys (Buttrey, Johnson). I just thought they'd be ranked higher/be valued more then BP seems to do at this point. It's a Top 50, and there are 18 pitchers on the list. Not listing a guy in the top 18 pitchers doesn't mean they're down on them. It's insane that the Sox have hitters number 6, 9, and 10 in the game per the list.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,731
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Post by nomar on Jul 6, 2015 12:58:00 GMT -5
Not to be misunderstood: I have high hopes for Owens, kopech, Espinosa and even ball plus many of the lower ceiling guys (Buttrey, Johnson). I just thought they'd be ranked higher/be valued more then BP seems to do at this point. It's a Top 50, and there are 18 pitchers on the list. Not listing a guy in the top 18 pitchers doesn't mean they're down on them. It's insane that the Sox have hitters number 6, 9, and 10 in the game per the list. As long as we aren't selling low on Owens, I'm all for forgoing pretty numbers to develop a useable 3rd pitch.
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Post by ramireja on Jul 6, 2015 13:30:43 GMT -5
It's a Top 50, and there are 18 pitchers on the list. Not listing a guy in the top 18 pitchers doesn't mean they're down on them. It's insane that the Sox have hitters number 6, 9, and 10 in the game per the list. As long as we aren't selling low on Owens, I'm all for forgoing pretty numbers to develop a useable 3rd pitch. I mean, we're talking about being down on a guy whose WHIP sits at 1.16.
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Post by wskeleton76 on Jul 7, 2015 8:18:04 GMT -5
BA mid top 50 is out too.
11 Moncada 15 Devers 24 Margot 38 Johnson 47 Owens
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,731
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Post by nomar on Jul 7, 2015 8:19:23 GMT -5
BA is often more results based, so this makes sense, but congrats Johnson!
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Post by joshv02 on Jul 7, 2015 8:24:24 GMT -5
BA is often more results based, but congrats Johnson! The world is now flipped on its head.
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Post by cologneredsox on Jul 7, 2015 9:16:53 GMT -5
They mirror the decision made here to put Johnson above Owens. While I disagree with that, it's sure defendeble and nice to see Johnson getting the recognition to be a top-prospect.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,731
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Post by nomar on Jul 7, 2015 9:20:53 GMT -5
Some weird rankings there with Trea Turner top 10 and Mondesi still so high IMO
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 7, 2015 9:39:25 GMT -5
They mirror the decision made here to put Johnson above Owens. While I disagree with that, it's sure defendeble and nice to see Johnson getting the recognition to be a top-prospect. As someone who also would narrowly favor Owens, I think the fact that there are eight prospects in all of baseball who are between them is a nod to the fact that it's close. I think the consistency point they make is the key one, and as we said on the podcast, it's whether you favor floor or ceiling. Johnson's pretty certain to be an MLB starter. Owens can be much better, but could also be much worse.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 7, 2015 9:44:30 GMT -5
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Post by GyIantosca on Jul 7, 2015 10:14:52 GMT -5
I am telling you I am loving what I am seeing from the GCL and Lowell. I expect some adjustments by the end of the year.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,731
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Post by nomar on Jul 7, 2015 10:25:28 GMT -5
I am telling you I am loving what I am seeing from the GCL and Lowell. I expect some adjustments by the end of the year. They're striking out a ton, that's my only gripe. Obviously they're all very young though and plenty of time to correct that.
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Post by telson13 on Jul 7, 2015 12:46:37 GMT -5
Owens definitely gets a lot of flack for the season he's had, but isn't he working on his curveball at the expense of his best pitch (changeup)? Pretty sure the Sox want him to develop that 3rd pitch and are sacrificing present results for his development as a SP. Would probably go a long way towards explaining the severe regression in BB/9 to 2012 levels. But, like then, his BAA has been truly outstanding, and his WHIP is still under 1.2. The results haven't been great on the surface but there's plenty still there.
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Post by telson13 on Jul 7, 2015 12:54:41 GMT -5
I'm really curious to see where Anderson Espinoza ends up in terms of off-season lists. He's had three very good to excellent starts in the GCL, with 0ER and a stingy BAA...it just seems pretty reasonable to give him a few starts at Lowell soon and maybe consider an end-of-season stint at Greenville to see if he's full-season ball ready for next spring. If he does make low-A, and continues to pitch as well as he has so far, he's gotta have top-30-40 helium I'd think.
Javy Guerra's also intriguing. Cooled off with the bat some, but if he finishes .275/15/70 or so with his D, at his age in low A...that's a legit first-division starter ceiling SS I'd think.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jul 8, 2015 8:24:58 GMT -5
Pretty remarkable considering that Swihart and Rodriguez would probably be top 20 if they were eligible. Plus Kopech has a shot if he has a great second half, and I think Espinoza looks to have a chance too. I mean, we say stuff like this all the time, but it's still worth acknowledging that that really is a lot of high-end talent after graduating Betts and Bogaerts the last two years.
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