danr
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Post by danr on Jul 28, 2015 14:29:43 GMT -5
KC gave Manaea $3.5 million to sign in 2013, twice the slot amount. He's only pitched one full season in the pros, 2014. He was injured early this year and was just promoted to AA. That's sort of like the Sox trading Trey Ball for Zobrist, but Manaea probably is better than Ball - unless KC knows something that no one else does.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 28, 2015 14:31:45 GMT -5
Holt is not close to the player Zobrist is. Obviously I'm in favor of dealing him but I wouldn't get all excited just yet. He's at his zenith and he has control and has better "right now" stats. This is a right now deal, obviously with 2 months of Zobrist being the return. Zobrist has a longer history of sustained performance but he's in decline and will be a free agent. |
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 28, 2015 14:33:16 GMT -5
I think Holt is better defensively than Zobrist but Zobrist has more power. I have been among a number on this site who under-estimated Holt. Based on two years now of him confounding us, I think if he gets the chance he can be a regular 2B for a lot of teams. That's probably his best position and his bat would play there.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 28, 2015 14:33:25 GMT -5
KC gave Manaea $3.5 million to sign in 2013, twice the slot amount. He's only pitched one full season in the pros, 2014. He was injured early this year and was just promoted to AA. That's sort of like the Sox trading Trey Ball for Zobrist, but Manaea probably is better than Ball - unless KC knows something that no one else does. Manaea-Ball is not a great comparison. The only similarities are that they were LHP picked in the same draft and they're both from Indiana. Manaea is a college pitcher who fell in the draft because of injury and who only made it to AA just recently due to another injury. He dealt in High A last year, although his walks were high. I'll put it this way - I'd probably take Manaea over Benintendi. |
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 28, 2015 14:36:53 GMT -5
KC gave Manaea $3.5 million to sign in 2013, twice the slot amount. He's only pitched one full season in the pros, 2014. He was injured early this year and was just promoted to AA. That's sort of like the Sox trading Trey Ball for Zobrist, but Manaea probably is better than Ball - unless KC knows something that no one else does. Manaea-Ball is not a great comparison. The only similarities are that they were LHP picked in the same draft and they're both from Indiana. Manaea is a college pitcher who fell in the draft because of injury and who only made it to AA just recently due to another injury. He dealt in High A last year, although his walks were high. I'll put it this way - I'd probably take Manaea over Benintendi. Wow. Then Beane scores again. |
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 28, 2015 14:40:38 GMT -5
The biggest link between Manaea and Ball is that I wanted the Sox to take Manaea in the 2013 draft but he got hurt and the Red Sox drafted Ball.
I take Manaea over Owens and Johnson. Probably not Benintendi though (I really like him). The best comparison for Manaea might be Eduardo Rodriguez last year - both have electric stuff but inconsistent performance. With that in mind, I'll take two months of Zobrist over two months of Miller. Still, a huge steal for Oakland.
On one level I admire Kansas City's GO FOR IT mentality this season. On another, after they stunk for 20 years, I think it's pretty stupid to put all their eggs in one basket to use a silly cliche.
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jdb
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Post by jdb on Jul 28, 2015 14:48:35 GMT -5
The KC window is closing though. Gordon's probably gone after this year and they're going to start paying a lot of younger guys some arbitration raises. I totally get why they did this but it would hurt.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 28, 2015 14:52:49 GMT -5
The KC window is closing though. Gordon's probably gone after this year and they're going to start paying a lot of younger guys some arbitration raises. I totally get why they did this but it would hurt. I dunno, Core guys like Hosmer, Sal Perez, Cain, and Moustakas are there for quite awhile. Losing Gordon will be tough but he's like their fifth-best position player. Supplementing their current core with Manaea would extend that window, and I don't know how much Zobrist really improves their chances this year. He a really good player but unlike Cueto he isn't enough of an improvement over the guys he's replacing in the lineup to dignify the cost they paid. |
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Post by jmei on Jul 28, 2015 15:01:20 GMT -5
Holt is not close to the player Zobrist is. Obviously I'm in favor of dealing him but I wouldn't get all excited just yet. He's at his zenith and he has control and has better "right now" stats. This is a right now deal, obviously with 2 months of Zobrist being the return. Zobrist has a longer history of sustained performance but he's in decline and will be a free agent. In 2015, Zobrist is hitting .268/.354/.447 (125 wRC+), while Holt is at .284/.364/.395 (112 wRC+), so that's not really true. Even if it was, the fact that Holt hit well the last couple months matters, but it doesn't outweigh a half-decade of Zobrist being a much better hitter. To put it another way, Fangraphs projects Zobrist for a 118 wRC+ going forward and Holt for a 91 wRC+ going forward. That sounds about right (though I'm a little more bullish on Holt going forward and think he'll be closer to a 100 wRC+ hitter). |
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 28, 2015 15:11:04 GMT -5
Barry Svrluga @barrysvrluga 8m8 minutes ago
Source: Deal to bring Jonathan Papelbon to Nationals is nearing completion.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jul 28, 2015 15:27:39 GMT -5
I think Holt is better defensively than Zobrist but Zobrist has more power. I have been among a number on this site who under-estimated Holt. Based on two years now of him confounding us, I think if he gets the chance he can be a regular 2B for a lot of teams. That's probably his best position and his bat would play there. Hate to disagree with you danr, but Zobrist is one hell of a solid defensive player at 2nd and in right field. He can play a decent 3rd and is OK at short. I'm not a Rays' fan. Not even close. I have always rooted against them because they are in our division. They are on TV every night here, and he has driven me crazy for the last 5 years. NOW I have not seen him this season. Maybe he has regressed, but Zobrist has made Joe Maddon look really smart for years. Some years he was the Rays' best player and that was when Longoria was playing well. |
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Jul 28, 2015 15:32:59 GMT -5
We should trade Holt at peak value, we won't though.
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 28, 2015 16:03:52 GMT -5
I said Holt was better defensively primarily because he seems to be able to play every position competently. I know Zobrist was good at 2B and in the OF, but I thought he was pretty limited elsewhere.
Holt has the reputation of wearing down when he plays regularly. I heard Farrell say those exact words on the radio the other day. I think it is more that he is the classic streak hitter. Pedroia is the same and it appears Betts may be as well. They hit a lot in streaks and then not much in streaks.
Adding this:
Zobrist played only LF, RF and 2B for Oakland this year. Last year he played all three OF positions, SS and 2B for Tampa. He hasn't played at 3B or 1B since 2010.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 28, 2015 16:26:15 GMT -5
We should trade Holt at peak value, we won't though. Would you trade Holt for a package like Peavy brought back from San Fran? I wouldn't but why do we think he'd bring back much more than that? |
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Post by Guidas on Jul 28, 2015 16:26:56 GMT -5
FWIW, Jim Bowden on MLB radio saying Friedman weighing offers for Puig.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 28, 2015 16:27:31 GMT -5
FWIW, Jim Bowden on MLB radio saying Friedman weighing offers for Puig. Because Friedman is smart and realizes Puig is over-rated |
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 28, 2015 16:46:38 GMT -5
FWIW, Jim Bowden on MLB radio saying Friedman weighing offers for Puig. Because Friedman is smart and realizes Puig is over-rated I'd welcome him with open arms. A 24 year old putting up a 111 wRC in a down year? They're just getting bored of their toy because they have Pederson, Seager, and Urias to drool over. I'd eat Sandoval's deal and trade him, Owens, and Kopech for Puig. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 28, 2015 16:52:11 GMT -5
FWIW, Jim Bowden on MLB radio saying Friedman weighing offers for Puig. Holt for Puig |
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 28, 2015 16:57:40 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal 2m2 minutes ago
Source: Under terms of trade agreement, if completed, Papelbon will close for #Nationals and be signed for 2016.
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal 33s33 seconds ago
Source adds: Papelbon will be taking millions less to leave #Phillies.
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Post by jmei on Jul 28, 2015 17:13:41 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal 2m2 minutes ago Source: Under terms of trade agreement, if completed, Papelbon will close for #Nationals and be signed for 2016. Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal 33s33 seconds ago Source adds: Papelbon will be taking millions less to leave #Phillies. Presumably this means they're renegotiating his 2016 option to guarantee it but make it worth less. Player's association isn't going to like it. There are some attenuating circumstances (the option is not guaranteed to vest, Papelbon wants out of Philadelphia badly), but the PA has always been very wary of setting a bad precedent and sliding down the slippery slope. |
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 28, 2015 17:31:03 GMT -5
Mike DiGiovannaVerified account @mikedigiovanna
Hearing #Angels are about to trade for #Indians OF David Murphy.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 28, 2015 17:40:03 GMT -5
Mike DiGiovannaVerified account @mikedigiovanna Hearing #Angels are about to trade for #Indians OF David Murphy. Trout is going for an MRI on his wrist. Would be insurance in case he needs to miss time. |
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 28, 2015 17:44:25 GMT -5
Joel Sherman @joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Hear #Rays are on brink of trading David DeJesus
Joel Sherman @joelsherman1 32s32 seconds ago
DeJesus was traded to #Angels
Joel Sherman @joelsherman1 1m1 minute ago
#Angels are taking on all of the remaining dollars on DeJesus contract
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Post by jmei on Jul 28, 2015 17:53:51 GMT -5
Mike DiGiovannaVerified account @mikedigiovanna Hearing #Angels are about to trade for #Indians OF David Murphy. Trout is going for an MRI on his wrist. Would be insurance in case he needs to miss time. It makes sense even without any Trout injury concerns. A Murphy/Victorino platoon gives you pretty good production at a pretty cheap cost (both in terms of salary and prospects). Victorino is a career 134 wRC+ hitter vs. lefties, while Murphy is 113 vs. righties. ADD: the Angels also adding DeJesus, on the other hand... |
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Post by taftreign on Jul 28, 2015 20:45:34 GMT -5
Details on the Papelbon trade:
@barrysvrluga of the Washington Post
Specifics on $$ for Pap: Phils give Nats $4.5M for '15. Papelbon waives option, new deal is for '16 but pays $8M next year and $3M in '17.
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