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Dreaming up an Athletics - Red Sox trade proposal
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 24, 2015 11:47:41 GMT -5
Does Billy Beane hang up if Ben offers Swihart, Margot, Marrero and Stankiewicz for four years of Sonny Gray? (FYI, I don't expect OAK to trade Gray under any circumstance)
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Post by larrycook on Jul 24, 2015 13:31:29 GMT -5
Would not beans want a major league or near major league pitcher included in any deal for gray?
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 24, 2015 13:50:30 GMT -5
He might, if he could find one. Beane will take the best package and then sort out the pieces.
Again, to be clear, I don't see OAK trading Gray under any circumstance.
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Post by ramireja on Jul 24, 2015 14:05:42 GMT -5
also, good luck trying to determine Beane's preferences. I've given up trying to guess which prospect package he might favor...
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Jul 24, 2015 14:07:18 GMT -5
Do the Red Sox create a package for Gray that centers around ERod or Owens plus Margot and Marrero league seeing as they have several promising lefties?
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Post by rafael on Jul 24, 2015 14:20:52 GMT -5
I don't think he would hang up at that package, but I don't think he would do that deal either. I guess he would try to change Stank or Marrero to pieces he likes more and he thinks are undervalued. Of course, I'm assuming that neither Stank nor Marrero are players he likes.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 24, 2015 15:12:30 GMT -5
Does Billy Beane hang up if Ben offers Swihart, Margot, Marrero and Stankiewicz for four years of Sonny Gray? (FYI, I don't expect OAK to trade Gray under any circumstance) Yes, Billy Beane hangs up because unless the Sox get him a young future possible ace arm like an ERod, a Kopeck, or an Espinoza, two regular players, a future #4/5 starter and a SS who can't hit, won't get it done.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 24, 2015 16:08:33 GMT -5
Does Billy Beane hang up if Ben offers Swihart, Margot, Marrero and Stankiewicz for four years of Sonny Gray? (FYI, I don't expect OAK to trade Gray under any circumstance) Yes, Billy Beane hangs up because unless the Sox get him a young future possible ace arm like an ERod, a Kopeck, or an Espinoza, two regular players, a future #4/5 starter and a SS who can't hit, won't get it done. Calling Swihart and Margot two regular players is probably selling them short. They're potential All-Star players at premium defensive positions. They have as much potential as ERod and are a lot closer to the majors than Kopech or Espinoza.
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Post by pokeefe363 on Jul 24, 2015 16:23:30 GMT -5
I think we actually could matchup. Margot, Swihart, Kopech, Marrero could be an interesting package that other teams can't match, but wouldn't cripple us. It's a deal that would make a lot of sense for both sides however.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 24, 2015 16:50:54 GMT -5
Yes, Billy Beane hangs up because unless the Sox get him a young future possible ace arm like an ERod, a Kopeck, or an Espinoza, two regular players, a future #4/5 starter and a SS who can't hit, won't get it done. Calling Swihart and Margot two regular players is probably selling them short. They're potential All-Star players at premium defensive positions. They have as much potential as ERod and are a lot closer to the majors than Kopech or Espinoza. Wasn't trying to downplay Margot and Swihart, who I think will be all-stars at some point, as much as I was trying to convey the point that I think Beane would want a young pitcher with either strong front of the rotation potential or a pitcher who has that potential who is just getting his feet wet in the majors now and hasn't had those results yet.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 24, 2015 16:58:23 GMT -5
Calling Swihart and Margot two regular players is probably selling them short. They're potential All-Star players at premium defensive positions. They have as much potential as ERod and are a lot closer to the majors than Kopech or Espinoza. Wasn't trying to downplay Margot and Swihart, who I think will be all-stars at some point, as much as I was trying to convey the point that I think Beane would want a young pitcher with either strong front of the rotation potential or a pitcher who has that potential who is just getting his feet wet in the majors now and hasn't had those results yet. I don't think either of us know what he wants. If he's open to the best possible trade, that's a damn good offer.
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Post by boston1918 on Jul 24, 2015 17:24:18 GMT -5
you center the package around Mookie Betts..The Redsox are in desperate need of young cost controlled Ace and have no one in the system that can be that in the next 2-3 years
With Mookie as part of the package you wouldnt have to give up as many pieces and the Redsox have possibly 4 guys who are ready now or in the next year or so who can replace Mookie in JBJ,Castillo,Margot and Benny
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 24, 2015 17:28:03 GMT -5
Mookie is a more valuable player than Sonny Gray without question IMO.
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Post by boston1918 on Jul 24, 2015 17:33:11 GMT -5
Mookie is a more valuable player than Sonny Gray without question IMO. normally I would agree...But with Bostons desperation for a frontline starter who is also young and cheap and the fact that they alot of Outfielders who are coming up..Id make the deal
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 24, 2015 17:37:49 GMT -5
Mookie is a more valuable player than Sonny Gray without question IMO. normally I would agree...But with Bostons desperation for a frontline starter who is also young and cheap and the fact that they alot of Outfielders who are coming up..Id make the deal 1) Gray is young, but he's a #2 at the end of the day. 2) Mookie could be a top 5 player in baseball. There's years where he could be twice as valuable as Gray and he's a lot less risky than a pitcher. I don't think there's a package Oakland could offer us for Mookie that I would take honestly.
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Post by arzjake on Jul 24, 2015 18:47:02 GMT -5
you center the package around Mookie Betts..The Redsox are in desperate need of young cost controlled Ace and have no one in the system that can be that in the next 2-3 years With Mookie as part of the package you wouldnt have to give up as many pieces and the Redsox have possibly 4 guys who are ready now or in the next year or so who can replace Mookie in JBJ,Castillo,Margot and Benny Your Nuts...
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Post by arzjake on Jul 24, 2015 18:48:22 GMT -5
normally I would agree...But with Bostons desperation for a frontline starter who is also young and cheap and the fact that they alot of Outfielders who are coming up..Id make the deal 1) Gray is young, but he's a #2 at the end of the day. 2) Mookie could be a top 5 player in baseball. There's years where he could be twice as valuable as Gray and he's a lot less risky than a pitcher. I don't think there's a package Oakland could offer us for Mookie that I would take honestly. Amen. Sox trade Betts, I'm done with Boston Baseball.
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Post by jmei on Jul 24, 2015 18:53:21 GMT -5
normally I would agree...But with Bostons desperation for a frontline starter who is also young and cheap and the fact that they alot of Outfielders who are coming up..Id make the deal 1) Gray is young, but he's a #2 at the end of the day. 2) Mookie could be a top 5 player in baseball. There's years where he could be twice as valuable as Gray and he's a lot less risky than a pitcher. I don't think there's a package Oakland could offer us for Mookie that I would take honestly. I wouldn't trade Bett for him, but you're way underselling Gray. He might be the best pitcher in the AL this year.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 24, 2015 19:08:28 GMT -5
1) Gray is young, but he's a #2 at the end of the day. 2) Mookie could be a top 5 player in baseball. There's years where he could be twice as valuable as Gray and he's a lot less risky than a pitcher. I don't think there's a package Oakland could offer us for Mookie that I would take honestly. I wouldn't trade Bett for him, but you're way underselling Gray. He might be the best pitcher in the AL this year. I guess I'm low on him compared to others. He's very good and young, but he doesn't K that many people, and he pitches in Oakland. His SIERA is 11th (far from perfect stat, but just an example showing that it's not like metrics put him above everyone else) in the AL. I think he's good, but there's definitely better pitchers in the AL this year. He isn't even in the same league as Sale, Felix, Price, and I'll take Archer and Keuchel before him too. Also, OT but I would ask the White Sox about Quintana.
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Post by larrycook on Jul 24, 2015 20:46:38 GMT -5
I have only three untouchables in the sox system. Betts, bogey and swihart.
But I would hope we would hang onto Rodriguez, kopech and Espinoza in any trade we make.
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Post by telson13 on Jul 24, 2015 21:43:00 GMT -5
you center the package around Mookie Betts..The Redsox are in desperate need of young cost controlled Ace and have no one in the system that can be that in the next 2-3 years With Mookie as part of the package you wouldnt have to give up as many pieces and the Redsox have possibly 4 guys who are ready now or in the next year or so who can replace Mookie in JBJ,Castillo,Margot and Benny No. No, you definitely don't. And you don't center it around Bogaerts either.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 24, 2015 21:44:29 GMT -5
normally I would agree...But with Bostons desperation for a frontline starter who is also young and cheap and the fact that they alot of Outfielders who are coming up..Id make the deal 1) Gray is young, but he's a #2 at the end of the day. Maybe at day end he's a number two, but from about 7:05 to 9:30ish PDT he tends to be one of the two or three best pitchers in the American League. EDIT: Not that I'd trade Betts for him. Because what's the point? That's a high-risk trade that just moves problems around.
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Post by telson13 on Jul 24, 2015 21:56:31 GMT -5
I have only three untouchables in the sox system. Betts, bogey and swihart. But I would hope we would hang onto Rodriguez, kopech and Espinoza in any trade we make. I would put Espinoza in that untouchable category as well. It would take a fantastic player to pry Rodriguez away from me, and Kopech isn't far behind. You can't teach 100 mph (or 98 for Rodriguez, from the left). Realistically, Ridriguez is their #2 right now, even if his stats are skewed by two pitch-tipping shellackings. He could be nearly the pitcher Gray is as early as next season, and arguably has a higher ceiling. Yet another reason I think the Sox ought to trade Miley to a contender if they can get a quality package in return, and then just put Owens and Johnson in the rotation. None of those guys really has much more AAA learning to do...let them learn in the majors, and have a better idea of what they can do next year. Almost all young pitchers struggle some, at least for a half-season and often for 2 years or more. Get some learning out of the way when it *really* doesn't matter. If they struggle the Sox still have chips further down the minors, and their draft position improves. Plus, their minor-league depth improves with the trade. After Donaldson to the Jays, I have no idea what Beane is thinking. I think calling Gray a #2 is selling him short...he's a 1a, maybe even a 1 once he hits his prime at 27-28. Then again, Oakland is a very forgiving park for pitchers.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 24, 2015 22:04:38 GMT -5
1) Gray is young, but he's a #2 at the end of the day. Maybe at day end he's a number two, but from about 7:05 to 9:30ish PDT he tends to be one of the two or three best pitchers in the American League. EDIT: Not that I'd trade Betts for him. Because what's the point? That's a high-risk trade that just moves problems around. Statistically untrue. fWAR: 5th in AL FIP: 9th in AL xFIP: 12th in AL SIERA: 11th in AL If you want to go by ERA, sure, he's top 3. He's one of the best, but I'd put him in the 5-9 range in the AL. I don't get why what I said is such a big deal. He's a good person to have leading your staff, but he's not the second coming. But I also am one of those people who consider only a very small number of pitchers aces.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 25, 2015 8:14:41 GMT -5
Mookie is a more valuable player than Sonny Gray without question IMO. normally I would agree...But with Bostons desperation for a frontline starter who is also young and cheap and the fact that they alot of Outfielders who are coming up..Id make the deal You make that trade and then they're desperate for a bat that can hit at the top or the middle of the order. They aren't that desperate for Sonny Gray.
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